Avengers Endgame Spoiler Discussion

[MisterPenguin]

I think you missed the part where guardians is the BEST they’ll do. I think its impressive. But I don’t think “brand trust” is the reason...it was that they used the familiar characters to boost the ones that were not. It’s a tricky proposition to move away from that.

We’ll see.

And Thor 2 wasn’t that bad and Thor 3 wasn’t that good. Just an opinion

Guardians was not familiar characters to the general public. And yet, the only way GotG became that popular with the general public was because of Marvel's brand reputation. Like some people will go to say any horror movie simply because it's a horror movie, the general movie-going public will see any Disney/Marvel or Pixar or Disney Animation movie because of the brand and the movie will make anywhere from a half to two billion dollars.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Guardians was not familiar characters to the general public. And yet, the only way GotG became that popular with the general public was because of Marvel's brand reputation. Like some people will go to say any horror movie simply because it's a horror movie, the general movie-going public will see any Disney/Marvel or Pixar or Disney Animation movie because of the brand and the movie will make anywhere from a half to two billion dollars.

So If they off Thor...and maybe ant man...and maybe dr strange...where does that leave them?

The recognizable marvel characters are typically captain American, hulk, Thor, fantastic four, Spider-Man....maybe Ironman.

You can say that it’s just the label. That has been the excuse for every Disney thing that has underperformed in the past...but it may not be true.

We’ll have to see.

After all...fans would never move away from a franchise like marvel....which is almost as guaranteed as Star Wars. The fact that Disney owns them....I’m sure they could have a trained circus dog run them and they’ll always increase with every movie, right?

 

[MisterPenguin]

So If they off Thor...and maybe ant man...and maybe dr strange...where does that leave them?

The recognizable marvel characters are typically captain American, hulk, Thor, fantastic four, Spider-Man....maybe Ironman.

You can say that it’s just the label. That has been the excuse for every Disney thing that has underperformed in the past...but it may not be true.

We’ll have to see.

After all...fans would never move away from a franchise like marvel....which is almost as guaranteed as Star Wars. The fact that Disney owns them....I’m sure they could have a trained circus dog run them and they’ll always increase with every movie, right?

New characters. Like GoTG was new (to the general public). Heck, even Ant-Man was new to the general public.

 

[LSLS]

What?

Guardians, for the general public, was a complete unknown. You can't get more unknown than unknown.

Disney's Marvel is a brand that people trust. They gave Thor 3 a chance after Thor 2. They'll give any new character a chance. It's the same cachet that Pixar and Disney Animation and Disney Parks has. When Iger goes on and on about the strength of 'the brand', this is the real world consequence.

I agree. BUT, if we are talking about getting as big as this movie was, I think it's tough with the lesser known characters. Again, makes me wish they pushed the next generation characters more for the next rounds of movies, but also makes the Fox acquisition more important.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

New characters. Like GoTG was new (to the general public). Heck, even Ant-Man was new to the general public.

And they have done amazingly well...

Interwoven within the other series movies.

I have doubts that guardians and black panther and captain marvel can pull the train like cap and Tony and the Avengers. But they are well positioned either way

 

[LSLS]

So If they off Thor...and maybe ant man...and maybe dr strange...where does that leave them?

The recognizable marvel characters are typically captain American, hulk, Thor, fantastic four, Spider-Man....maybe Ironman.

You can say that it’s just the label. That has been the excuse for every Disney thing that has underperformed in the past...but it may not be true.

We’ll have to see.

After all...fans would never move away from a franchise like marvel....which is almost as guaranteed as Star Wars. The fact that Disney owns them....I’m sure they could have a trained circus dog run them and they’ll always increase with every movie, right?

I actually think X-Men is the BIGGEST of all Marvel. I knew them far and away the best of all the Marvel characters before any movies. Heck, I probably still know and care more about X-Men than any of the other Marvel characters.

 

[MisterPenguin]

I agree. BUT, if we are talking about getting as big as this movie was, I think it's tough with the lesser known characters. Again, makes me wish they pushed the next generation characters more for the next rounds of movies, but also makes the Fox acquisition more important.

Marvel on D+ and and Hulu is rife with opportunities to introduce new characters and gauge the audience's reaction. Those that do well can upgrade to movies.

 

[MisterPenguin]

I actually think X-Men is the BIGGEST of all Marvel. I knew them far and away the best of all the Marvel characters before any movies. Heck, I probably still know and care more about X-Men than any of the other Marvel characters.

Indeed, there are a lot of X-Men that were only in the background or never brought up which already have some public awareness: Iceman, Rogue, Gambit, etc... Sort of like Deadpool.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I actually think X-Men is the BIGGEST of all Marvel. I knew them far and away the best of all the Marvel characters before any movies. Heck, I probably still know and care more about X-Men than any of the other Marvel characters.

Indeed, there are a lot of X-Men that were only in the background or never brought up which already have some public awareness: Iceman, Rogue, Gambit, etc... Sort of like Deadpool.

X-men has traditionally been the biggest with marvel fans...but that’s not your target

The movie franchise has helped spread that appeal a lot.

Tough day to make that argument though...as one just bombed. Guess not every terrible franchise sequel can make $1.2 bil,huh?

 

[LSLS]

X-men has traditionally been the biggest with marvel fans...but that’s not your target

The movie franchise has helped spread that appeal a lot.

Tough day to make that argument though...as one just bombed. Guess not every terrible franchise sequel can make $1.2 bil,huh?

No but, well before movies there were more X-Men fans than any I would bet, just based on the cartoons.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

No but, well before movies there were more X-Men fans than any I would bet, just based on the cartoons.

It was huge with the comic book set...always

I’d say it’s a strong draw

Need to reboot now though

 

[Disney Irish]

Marvel on D+ and and Hulu is rife with opportunities to introduce new characters and gauge the audience's reaction. Those that do well can upgrade to movies.

Agreed, Disney+/Hulu can be like a minor league farm team trying out new players before moving them up to the majors.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Agreed, Disney+/Hulu can be like a minor league farm team trying out new players before moving them up to the majors.

They’re expecting an initial bit of a rough go at first for the service...hence the cheap price

Will be interesting to see how fast they role programming

 

[Disney Irish]

They’re expecting an initial bit of a rough go at first for the service...hence the cheap price

Will be interesting to see how fast they role programming

Well personally I think the low price is for many factors, including to make it affordable for families.

With D-Channel/D-XD they roll over programming pretty quick. Most shows only last 2-4 seasons. So the 8-10 episodes for most of the Marvel shows is nothing for them.

To continue this discussion on Marvel characters for a second. I don't think you realize how many characters Marvel has access to. By some estimates its between 8k-10k, I've seen some say its even higher. Feige is not stupid, he knows how to introduce characters slowly and bring them along a story arc. So even if it takes them 5+ years to get another large ensemble of characters, it'll happen. Don't have any doubts about that. Also I wouldn't be surprised if they have 2 or more main story arcs going forward, an earth-bound and a cosmic story arc. With both of them converging in that large scale ensemble movie.

 

[MisterPenguin]

They’re expecting an initial bit of a rough go at first for the service

Who are "they"?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Who are "they"?

Robert iger and all the people that make decisions.
So him and 500 stock brokers

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Well personally I think the low price is for many factors, including to make it affordable for families.

With D-Channel/D-XD they roll over programming pretty quick. Most shows only last 2-4 seasons. So the 8-10 episodes for most of the Marvel shows is nothing for them.

To continue this discussion on Marvel characters for a second. I don't think you realize how many characters Marvel has access to. By some estimates its between 8k-10k, I've seen some say its even higher. Feige is not stupid, he knows how to introduce characters slowly and bring them along a story arc. So even if it takes them 5+ years to get another large ensemble of characters, it'll happen. Don't have any doubts about that. Also I wouldn't be surprised if they have 2 or more main story arcs going forward, an earth-bound and a cosmic story arc. With both of them converging in that large scale ensemble movie.

And I don’t think you make the distinction between comic material and screen material. Comics are often drive by fantasy from relative weirdos. So for every 1 Spider-Man...there have been dozens of strange attempts at hero’s and villians that never leave the page - with good reason

 

[MisterPenguin]

Robert iger and all the people that make decisions.
So him and 500 stock brokers

That "rough go" is because the initial launch will be capital-investment-heavy which will impact the bottom line. Not because they don't think D+ and their other streamers are faltering.

 

[erasure fan1]

Well personally I think the low price is for many factors, including to make it affordable for families.

Unfortunately I think family affordability is not on Disneys agenda at all. They might try and spin it that way, but Iger did say months ago that the lower price is because of content. I would wager we see constant increases every year with Disney+.

 

[Disney Irish]

And I don’t think you make the distinction between comic material and screen material. Comics are often drive by fantasy from relative weirdos. So for every 1 Spider-Man...there have been dozens of strange attempts at hero’s and villians that never leave the page - with good reason

Yes of course there are some that don't transfer well to either the small or big screen, so yeah they won't use those characters. Also not all of those 8k-10k I mentioned are hero's either, some are villains. My point is they have a large stable of character to pick from, not that they will actual use every single one in a TV show or film. So for now I put my faith in Feige that he will continue to bring good characters and good stories to the MCU. He hasn't let me down yet.