Avengers Endgame Spoiler Discussion

[Disney Irish]

And I don’t think you make the distinction between comic material and screen material. Comics are often drive by fantasy from relative weirdos. So for every 1 Spider-Man...there have been dozens of strange attempts at hero’s and villians that never leave the page - with good reason

Yes of course there are some that don't transfer well to either the small or big screen, so yeah they won't use those characters. Also not all of those 8k-10k I mentioned are hero's either, some are villains. My point is they have a large stable of character to pick from, not that they will actual use every single one in a TV show or film. So for now I put my faith in Feige that he will continue to bring good characters and good stories to the MCU. He hasn't let me down yet.

 

[Disney Irish]

Unfortunately I think family affordability is not on Disneys agenda at all. They might try and spin it that way, but Iger did say months ago that the lower price is because of content. I would wager we see constant increases every year with Disney+.

Well in this interview he specifically said price is a factor in accessibility:

“I’m pretty optimistic about the ability for this thing to work. Particularly when you make it accessible because of the content we’re putting on, because of the user interface and because of the price,”

He even goes on to hedge his bet by providing a plan if it doesn't work:

“If, in five years’ time, I prove to be wrong — or we prove to be wrong — we’re still making great content that’s going to be in great demand globally.”


“And you can shift in a moment and license to third parties,” he added. “But I don’t think that’s really an issue. You’re building up library value regardless.”

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/11/dis...-company-will-be-successful-in-streaming.html

So I'm not sure how you can say affordability is not on their agenda at all when Iger specifically say prices is a factor in accessibility.

 

[erasure fan1]

Well in this interview he specifically said price is a factor in accessibility:



He even goes on to hedge his bet by providing a plan if it doesn't work:




https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/11/dis...-company-will-be-successful-in-streaming.html

So I'm not sure how you can say affordability is not on their agenda at all when Iger specifically say prices is a factor in accessibility.

Well I wouldn't expect him to come out and say the main goal of Disney+ is to charge as much as we possibly can. He knows that, yes, price is a factor. But I think that what he means is at the start. He knows the overall content will be lacking for a while, especially for the non Disney crazed who probably don't care about things like apple dumpling gang like you or I. So they need the price to be accessible in the beginning to get as many people to jump in as they can. Remember, this is the same company who is charging $9 for a cup of blue milk. Accessible prices are not their thing for the long term.

 

[Disney Irish]

Well I wouldn't expect him to come out and say the main goal of Disney+ is to charge as much as we possibly can. He knows that, yes, price is a factor. But I think that what he means is at the start. He knows the overall content will be lacking for a while, especially for the non Disney crazed who probably don't care about things like apple dumpling gang like you or I. So they need the price to be accessible in the beginning to get as many people to jump in as they can. Remember, this is the same company who is charging $9 for a cup of blue milk. Accessible prices are not their thing for the long term.

They're only going to be able to charge what the market will bear. That is something that is different in this streaming market, and I believe Disney and specifically Iger knows it. There is a reason why most streaming service's prices have remained relatively low, because they know the market can easily switch to another provider. Look at Hulu they just lowered their prices at the beginning of the year. So no I don't expect there to be yearly increases for Disney streaming. Disney+, Hulu, and the various combo packages will remain competitive.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Yes of course there are some that don't transfer well to either the small or big screen, so yeah they won't use those characters. Also not all of those 8k-10k I mentioned are hero's either, some are villains. My point is they have a large stable of character to pick from, not that they will actual use every single one in a TV show or film. So for now I put my faith in Feige that he will continue to bring good characters and good stories to the MCU. He hasn't let me down yet.

So what was the argument again?

Guess we don’t have one. I’m just saying it’s hard moving forward

Well I wouldn't expect him to come out and say the main goal of Disney+ is to charge as much as we possibly can. He knows that, yes, price is a factor. But I think that what he means is at the start. He knows the overall content will be lacking for a while, especially for the non Disney crazed who probably don't care about things like apple dumpling gang like you or I. So they need the price to be accessible in the beginning to get as many people to jump in as they can. Remember, this is the same company who is charging $9 for a cup of blue milk. Accessible prices are not their thing for the long term.

This is the first time he’s breathed the word “affordability” in his tenure.

It’s been all “luxury” and “world class”. Even as they systematically have reduced the value of many products.

Pretty hypocritical to be worried about hooking poor kids on baby crack now.

Somebody remind me again why they’re so much better than Comcast?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

That "rough go" is because the initial launch will be capital-investment-heavy which will impact the bottom line. Not because they don't think D+ and their other streamers are faltering.

In the article that @erasure fan1 quoted...that is not what iger is saying. He’s hedging far more than he has on any product:

Disney has some capital startup...but not from scratch like Netflix or Hulu. The tech is stable and there’s no infrastructure

I know you think Disney makes no mistakes...but they do and thankfully for the stockholders Iger knows. I think they will do really well with this...but caution is warranted

 

[Disney Irish]

So what was the argument again?

Guess we don’t have one. I’m just saying it’s hard moving forward

This is the first time he’s breathed the word “affordability” in his tenure.

It’s been all luxury and world class

Pretty hypocritical to be worried about hooking poor kids on baby crack now.

Somebody remind me again why they’re so much better than Comcast?

There is no argument specifically, I’m just saying it’s not as hard as you think it is with all the character they have access to and with Feige in charge. We’ll see what happens.

As for D+ and affordability, streaming is a whole new market for Disney. They can’t use the same tactics they have used for other divisions like P&R where they raise prices every year or even twice a year. The streaming market has plenty of competition and unlike the Parks they aren’t first to the market. So they have to play in the same sandbox as everyone else. Which means they have to remain affordable in order to be competitive, or else Subs will jump ship to another service.

 

[flynnibus]

Remember, this is the same company who is charging $9 for a cup of blue milk. Accessible prices are not their thing for the long term.

Yeah, but talking about theme park monetization and digital mass market media strategies as if they are the same.. is pretty odd ball too.

D+ isn't focusing only on the person buying mickey ears for $30

 

[flynnibus]

They're only going to be able to charge what the market will bear. That is something that is different in this streaming market, and I believe Disney and specifically Iger knows it. There is a reason why most streaming service's prices have remained relatively low, because they know the market can easily switch to another provider. Look at Hulu they just lowered their prices at the beginning of the year. So no I don't expect there to be yearly increases for Disney streaming. Disney+, Hulu, and the various combo packages will remain competitive.

I expect d+ to monetize by add-on rentals... and doing things like standard service is rotating library... and premium being a deeper library etc.

People are expecting everything Disney has made... in an infinite library for the bargain price. I don’t see Disney being willing to go that far yet.

 

[Phicinfan]

So If they off Thor...and maybe ant man...and maybe dr strange...where does that leave them?

The recognizable marvel characters are typically captain American, hulk, Thor, fantastic four, Spider-Man....maybe Ironman.

You can say that it’s just the label. That has been the excuse for every Disney thing that has underperformed in the past...but it may not be true.

We’ll have to see.

After all...fans would never move away from a franchise like marvel....which is almost as guaranteed as Star Wars. The fact that Disney owns them....I’m sure they could have a trained circus dog run them and they’ll always increase with every movie, right?

You will get that answer very, very soon - with release of Eternals and the rumored Nova movie, and the fact they are moving intergalactic with story lines.
I also think you will be seeing many new characters soon, that will drive more.
I would add Black Panther isn't nearly the "name" character that Iron man or Thor or Cap are and it did phenomenally well.

 

[Disney Irish]

I expect d+ to monetize by add-on rentals... and doing things like standard service is rotating library... and premium being a deeper library etc.

People are expecting everything Disney has made... in an infinite library for the bargain price. I don’t see Disney being willing to go that far yet.

Could be, depends on how they want to market it. So far it’s been marketed as all content for $6.99/Mo or $69.99/Yr. So at least for the first year or two that is what I expect.

Tiered content would be similar to AT&T/Warner’s offering. So Disney wouldn’t be the first. However I’m not sure they want to do that as they see their main competitor as Netflix, not AT&T/Warner, which doesn’t have tiered content. So I expect longer term they follow lock-step with Netflix but undercutting them on price and offering more content.

 

[Phicinfan]

X-men has traditionally been the biggest with marvel fans...but that’s not your target

The movie franchise has helped spread that appeal a lot.

Tough day to make that argument though...as one just bombed. Guess not every terrible franchise sequel can make $1.2 bil,huh?

yeah see Fantastic Four. However, I wonder if both X-men and FF added to MCU titles won't get rub enough to make them financially more relevant

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

yeah see Fantastic Four. However, I wonder if both X-men and FF added to MCU titles won't get rub enough to make them financially more relevant

The first two fantastic four movies were “decent” eye candy. Notably Chris Evans and macmahon who I thought played a decent doom. The reboot was a complete miss.

The effort on FF has been really bad. Mcu will have to do a much better job.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

You will get that answer very, very soon - with release of Eternals and the rumored Nova movie, and the fact they are moving intergalactic with story lines.
I also think you will be seeing many new characters soon, that will drive more.
I would add Black Panther isn't nearly the "name" character that Iron man or Thor or Cap are and it did phenomenally well.

I agree.

And I think black panther most benefited from the mcu pull. It was good but not great...the box office didn’t Justify the product.

I think they’ve done the best in creating new permanent draws with guardians...but that’s a unique group there. People inexplicably love Pratt...and cooper has absolutely nailed rocket.

 

[Disney Irish]

I agree.

And I think black panther most benefited from the mcu pull. It was good but not great...the box office didn’t Justify the product.

I think they’ve done the best in creating new permanent draws with guardians...but that’s a unique group there. People inexplicably love Pratt...and cooper has absolutely nailed rocket.

Don't discount the draw of Black Panther in its own right. Sure it has the normal MCU draw, but it also has a large draw on its own for an AA writer/director and an almost all AA all-star cast. It has one of the highest non-white audience attendance in recent history. It is a perfect example of the right movie being released at the right time, same with Capt Marvel (in my opinion).

We'll see how BP2 does, but I expect it to do really well, maybe not on the same level as the first one, but it'll definitely be a top movie for the year its released.

Also don't forget Deadpool has done really well on the Fox side of things. They will include him in the MCU at some point, that in itself will be a huge draw for MCU and Fox X-Men fans alike. Especially since its already been confirmed that they will continue with the Rated-R solo films with Reynolds still in mask. He'll be toned down for any ensemble movie, but that is to be expected.

I also expect to see SWORD introduced soon (almost introduced several times in the MCU including in THOR), which is SHIELD's outerspace counterpart. Which could setup a potential 2 arc story line with both Earth-bound and Cosmic-bound adventures with SWORD being in the middle of both.

So lots of possibilities moving foward. Point is don't count out the MCU and Feige just yet, plenty of ways to get an audience to continue to care about the MCU.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Don't discount the draw of Black Panther in its own right. Sure it has the normal MCU draw, but it also has a large draw on its own for an AA writer/director and an almost all AA all-star cast. It has one of the highest non-white audience attendance in recent history. It is a perfect example of the right movie being released at the right time, same with Capt Marvel (in my opinion).

We'll see how BP2 does, but I expect it to do really well, maybe not on the same level as the first one, but it'll definitely be a top movie for the year its released.

Also don't forget Deadpool has done really well on the Fox side of things. They will include him in the MCU at some point, that in itself will be a huge draw for MCU and Fox X-Men fans alike. Especially since its already been confirmed that they will continue with the Rated-R solo films with Reynolds still in mask. He'll be toned down for any ensemble movie, but that is to be expected.

I also expect to see SWORD introduced soon (almost introduced several times in the MCU including in THOR), which is SHIELD's outerspace counterpart. Which could setup a potential 2 arc story line with both Earth-bound and Cosmic-bound adventures with SWORD being in the middle of both.

So lots of possibilities moving foward. Point is don't count out the MCU and Feige just yet, plenty of ways to get an audience to continue to care about the MCU.

I’m not discounting that at all...I think that was a huge driver. The FIRST time...don’t know if it’s sustainable. We’ll see.

To be clear: I’m not predicting immediate doom for feige.. Not a bit...they now get bigger grosses than the movies deserve and I don’t see that tailing off quickly. But after over a decade and cutting characters due to salary...the road starts to level out a little.

We shall see

 

[Phicinfan]

I’m not discounting that at all...I think that was a huge driver. The FIRST time...don’t know if it’s sustainable. We’ll see.

To be clear: I’m not predicting immediate doom for feign. Not a bit...they now get bigger grosses than the movies deserve and I don’t see that tailing off quickly. But after over a decade and cutting characters due to salary...the road starts to level out a little.

We shall see

I think that too will be driven by who they get as actors for particular roles. To me personally the biggest draw for Iron man was the selection of Downey Jr was a HUGE draw. He was exactly what you would expect for Stark.

You could also say choices for actors and voices they used for GoTG were the same. Bautista as Drax was the only real outlier there.

So as they introduce more new characters they have to be just as selective in who plays those characters to help the draw

 

[LSLS]

I think that too will be driven by who they get as actors for particular roles. To me personally the biggest draw for Iron man was the selection of Downey Jr was a HUGE draw. He was exactly what you would expect for Stark.

You could also say choices for actors and voices they used for GoTG were the same. Bautista as Drax was the only real outlier there.

So as they introduce more new characters they have to be just as selective in who plays those characters to help the draw

Honestly that in my mind has been the largest factor in Marvel's success vs. DC's not so much.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Honestly that in my mind has been the largest factor in Marvel's success vs. DC's not so much.

The dc movies have really screwed the casting as well as making bad story, fast and the furious style cgi nonsense.

The real shame of that is it’s hard to screw up Superman and Batman and they’ve done that.

After nolan’s Trilogy...which was all character and depth and feel...there is no excuse.

Gal gadot can’t make up for Benji as the bat.

 

[michmousefan]

I think that too will be driven by who they get as actors for particular roles. To me personally the biggest draw for Iron man was the selection of Downey Jr was a HUGE draw. He was exactly what you would expect for Stark.

You could also say choices for actors and voices they used for GoTG were the same. Bautista as Drax was the only real outlier there.

So as they introduce more new characters they have to be just as selective in who plays those characters to help the draw

I can't imagine they will stay away from Wolverine for too long... whoever they choose to cast in that reboot will be critical, given his potential role in the Avengers and other features going forward. Big claws to fill there...