Avatarland to take over Rafiki's Planet Watch?

[njDizFan]

I agree with a lot of reasoning behind why the Planet Watch area would be better for Avatar then CMM, but it still doesn't answer the question of how to get people back there. We have heard that Avatarland will be around 12 acres. Even if they decided to double that, it still wouldn't take up more then 1/2 of the space between Asia and Planet Watch. I don't see them doing any sort of transporation system, like a train, it would be to difficult to get enough capacity. Only other option would be a very long walking path. Anyone else have any thoughts?

I also agree having the AV-Land going into the plot behind Asia. If you add in the area for Rafiki's as you stated that area is huge. Judging by the map if it was to take up the whole plot plus Planet Watch, that area would be as large as the safari. And the safari alone is larger than the whole of MK.

something does not quite add up.


woow 1000 posts...

 

[Daannzzz]

If the do put Avatar in that back section the entry spot would be important. Even if they remove the train and station to use as an entrance that would sich as that area is already over crowded much of the day with people trying to get out of the Safari and into Gorilla Falls trail. If the remove the train they can come up from the south... open up the jungle area across the river from the tree of life (where Devine is often hanging out). Might have to move Flioghts of Wonder but that should not be a huge issue.
You could get a good size entrance there between the back of the African and Asian shops and restaurants. Of course this would change the atmosphere of the area by a huge amount.

 

[Timekeeper]

The IOA boardwalks were built to bypass the Potter construction only. Given the crowds after opening it made sense to leave them open. Potters location was in keeping with the parks overall theme- islands. Phase 2 could make use of more backstage areas along with 3a.

Scaffolding is a better example of something that is built for "construction only." After construction is completed, the scaffolding is removed. The boardwalks here served dual purposes, as was their intent. Also, note that the boardwalk can be closed off with existing gates, forcing guests through Wizarding World. To the best of my knowledge, the gates are always left open, even during the slow season, and thus permit guests to completely bypass this "island" even when overcrowding is not an issue.

Phase 2 will be making more use of existing areas rather than expanding into unused (backstage road) areas.

__________________
Timekeeper

 

[Alektronic]

Wouldn't it be possible that Avatarland would be taking over all of Camp Minnie Mickey and they replace Planet Watch by moving Lion King to be right next to Africa? (Where I think it should have been in the first place).

I think it would be possible and that is what I think will happen. The Lion King can be moved easily, but they won't replace Planet Watch, they will just add to the area. That is Animal Programs headquarters and offices and several buildings are critical to the backstage Animal Programs operations.

 

[RSoxNo1]

I came up with the walking distance to various areas around Disney World - getting to the edge of the Asia plot is quite a walk.

I thought I posted them in one of these threads but I can't seem to find it. I know I have it in old show notes so I'll get them tonight. Suffice it to say that if World of Avatar is in the plot north of Asia th Animal Kingdom is going to require that much more walking between attractions.

I also posted this from the Avatar - the Specifics thread:

We discuss some specifics on this week's show with Jim Hill.

A few points:

• Concept art exists (others have said this)
• The plot that will be used is the plot south of Camp Minnie Mickey, but parts of Camp Minnie Mickey will remain in tact (Mainly Festival of the Lion King).
• This may require removing Rainforest Cafe or simply moving it to the other side of the entrance.
• Universal passed on Avatar

The other thing Jim mentioned was that Pandas were a possibility in Asia as well and that could be a reason behind using Camp Minnie Mickey for Avatar as well.

 

[Ignohippo]

The new area being talked about would be a perfect fit and the area I always expected it to go. With that said, though, it's an enormous piece of land and I expect Avatar to only take up probably 35-40% of it.

I would also expect that the actual backstage aspects of Rafaiki's will stay right where it is and be expanded (the hospital, etc.) and the petting zoo, exhibits, etc. will move to CMM. I would not expect Avatarland to take up any of the area that is now Rafaiki's. Rafaiki's has never made much sense where it is because of the long hike back to it and it would be even more of a sore thumb if Avatar goes in front of it.

I would imagine Rafaiki's may need to close now for a possible expansion of the animal care facilities (which I'm sure probably need to be expanded by now).

 

[WDWFigment]

I came up with the walking distance to various areas around Disney World - getting to the edge of the Asia plot is quite a walk.

I thought I posted them in one of these threads but I can't seem to find it. I know I have it in old show notes so I'll get them tonight. Suffice it to say that if World of Avatar is in the plot north of Asia th Animal Kingdom is going to require that much more walking between attractions.

I also posted this from the Avatar - the Specifics thread:


The other thing Jim mentioned was that Pandas were a possibility in Asia as well and that could be a reason behind using Camp Minnie Mickey for Avatar as well.

I realize you're friends with Jim Hill so you treat what he says with a little more credence than most, but I hope you likewise realize that probably around 95% of the Disney community thinks his ability to prognosticate the future is terrible.

I would hazard a guess that if you searched for "grain of salt" on here, a large percentage of posts found with that phrase would also include the words "Jim Hill." (Perhaps second only to Screamscape.)

Don't get me wrong, I read Jim Hill, and his historical articles are great, but I think his days of being a credible rumor-mill source are long gone.

 

[RSoxNo1]

I realize you're friends with Jim Hill so you treat what he says with a little more credence than most, but I hope you likewise realize that probably around 95% of the Disney community thinks his ability to prognosticate the future is terrible.

I would hazard a guess that if you searched for "grain of salt" on here, a large percentage of posts found with that phrase would also include the words "Jim Hill." (Perhaps second only to Screamscape.)

Don't get me wrong, I read Jim Hill, and his historical articles are great, but I think his days of being a credible rumor-mill source are long gone.

I'm well aware of Jim's perceived perception on here - as is Jim. He is presenting information on this project that is from sources that are as good, if not better than the other insiders on here.

This type of thing though is obviously widly in flux so at the time he came on our show the information was what was currently being discussed - it's entirely possible that those things have changed.

On a previous visit to our show, I posed the question to Jim, "Who has a better track record with rumors - you or Jay Rasulo?" It really just comes down to the nature of what rumors are. They are gossip that are usually founded in truth. However the reason why they're not public knowledge is because they're not official yet. The problem is, Disney has become increasingly tight lipped. If you want a perfect example of this - look at the Disney Parks Blog chat with Imagineer Chris Beatty, Chris wouldn't discuss anything remotely insightful.

As for Jim, his connections for theme park rumors are still numerous, and still pretty high up. But frankly there has been several projects that were far along that have been changed or outright cancelled. Look at things like Fantasyland or Hyperion Wharf. Both of those projects were formally announced and have since been altered. Does that mean that Disney was presenting misinformation at the time of the announcement or does it mean that projects change?

 

[wdwmagic]

I'm well aware of Jim's perceived perception on here - as is Jim. He is presenting information on this project that is from sources that are as good, if not better than the other insiders on here.

How do you know that? Just wondering.

 

[WDWFREAK53]

Although I don't think the Safari and Dinosaur are weenies--don't weenies have to do with visual (size) characteristics, not popularity? For example, Cinderella Castle is a weenie, despite not having an attraction. Soarin' is not a weenie, despite being incredibly popular.

True, I was meaning "weenie" as in a "big-ticket draw" moreso than aesthetically.
(I still think seeing the name "Countdown to Extinction" on a park map was more of a draw than "Dinosaur")


Maybe I should've said, "Rope-drop race" attractions.

 

[Crush Dude!]

True, I was meaning "weenie" as in a "big-ticket draw" moreso than aesthetically.
(I still think seeing the name "Countdown to Extinction" on a park map was more of a draw than "Dinosaur")


Maybe I should've said, "Rope-drop race" attractions.

1000000000% AGREED :wave::wave::wave:

 

[Re-Stitch]

Location

It has already been mentioned that Festival of the Lion King will be getting a new home within AK, clearing additional space for the Avatar expansion.

 

[WDWFigment]

I'm well aware of Jim's perceived perception on here - as is Jim. He is presenting information on this project that is from sources that are as good, if not better than the other insiders on here.

This type of thing though is obviously widly in flux so at the time he came on our show the information was what was currently being discussed - it's entirely possible that those things have changed.

On a previous visit to our show, I posed the question to Jim, "Who has a better track record with rumors - you or Jay Rasulo?" It really just comes down to the nature of what rumors are. They are gossip that are usually founded in truth. However the reason why they're not public knowledge is because they're not official yet. The problem is, Disney has become increasingly tight lipped. If you want a perfect example of this - look at the Disney Parks Blog chat with Imagineer Chris Beatty, Chris wouldn't discuss anything remotely insightful.

As for Jim, his connections for theme park rumors are still numerous, and still pretty high up. But frankly there has been several projects that were far along that have been changed or outright cancelled. Look at things like Fantasyland or Hyperion Wharf. Both of those projects were formally announced and have since been altered. Does that mean that Disney was presenting misinformation at the time of the announcement or does it mean that projects change?

I hear what you're saying, but I can't say I agree with it. "Things change" seems like a cop-out to me, and I can't recall the last time I read a solid Jim Hill rumor. I used to defend him on here, and I consider even a 25% rate really solid. Since there were those mass-terminations 2 (or so) years ago, it seems Jim's site has really shifted from a news/rumors site to an entertainment site and his "cite-worthiness" on a place like this has thus gone down substantially. I suspect that many of his contacts were terminated at that time.

At this point, it seems when he does post a rumor, it's about something so distant (5th gate, Avatar Land) that if it is ever proven wrong, he has the out that "things changed." That, or he posts things based on reasonable intuition that have a decent likelihood of being true. (Avatar Land taking CMM's place would be a good example of this.)

I fully believe that, at present, Jim is no more connected with regard to theme parks than is the slightly-above average user here. He can claim he is well-connected all he wants, but his posts definitely demonstrate the opposite.

This is meant as no offense to you, as I think you're a great contributor here, but I really think Jim Hill has lost it.

 

[Crush Dude!]

It has already been mentioned that Festival of the Lion King will be getting a new home within AK, clearing additional space for the Avatar expansion.

Mentioned but, unconfirmed.....

 

[Crush Dude!]

I hear what you're saying, but I can't say I agree with it. "Things change" seems like a cop-out to me, and I can't recall the last time I read a solid Jim Hill rumor. I used to defend him on here, and I consider even a 25% rate really solid. Since there were those mass-terminations 2 (or so) years ago, it seems Jim's site has really shifted from a news/rumors site to an entertainment site and his "cite-worthiness" on a place like this has thus gone down substantially. I suspect that many of his contacts were terminated at that time.

At this point, it seems when he does post a rumor, it's about something so distant (5th gate, Avatar Land) that if it is ever proven wrong, he has the out that "things changed." That, or he posts things based on reasonable intuition that have a decent likelihood of being true. (Avatar Land taking CMM's place would be a good example of this.)

I fully believe that, at present, Jim is no more connected with regard to theme parks than is the slightly-above average user here. He can claim he is well-connected all he wants, but his posts definitely demonstrate the opposite.

This is meant as no offense to you, as I think you're a great contributor here, but I really think Jim Hill has lost it.

I am inclined to agree!

Been a member here for a few years and most posts i have seen concerning a rumour put out there by Jim Hill have come to nothing!!

A shame really as his historical disney articles are always great reading!!

 

[Re-Stitch]

As Avatar provides a very uniquely themed experience I find it more fitting to spur from the Discovery Island hub rather than being located on the Northern expansion pad, saddled up next to Asia and Africa. This option would provide for a better transition.

 

[Crush Dude!]

As Avatar provides a very uniquely themed experience I find it more fitting to spur from the Discovery Island hub rather than being located on the Northern expansion pad, saddled up next to Asia and Africa. This option would provide for a better transition.

Another good arguement! Sooner they reveal this the better :lol:

 

[RSoxNo1]

I'm well aware of Jim's perceived perception on here - as is Jim. He is presenting information on this project that is from sources that are as good, if not better than the other insiders on here.

How do you know that? Just wondering.

Admittedly this is an assumption. I don't know everyone's contacts for rumors, I just know Jim's. But I also know that insiders on here have corroborated information with stuff that Jim has come up with himself.

I hear what you're saying, but I can't say I agree with it. "Things change" seems like a cop-out to me, and I can't recall the last time I read a solid Jim Hill rumor. I used to defend him on here, and I consider even a 25% rate really solid. Since there were those mass-terminations 2 (or so) years ago, it seems Jim's site has really shifted from a news/rumors site to an entertainment site and his "cite-worthiness" on a place like this has thus gone down substantially. I suspect that many of his contacts were terminated at that time.

At this point, it seems when he does post a rumor, it's about something so distant (5th gate, Avatar Land) that if it is ever proven wrong, he has the out that "things changed." That, or he posts things based on reasonable intuition that have a decent likelihood of being true. (Avatar Land taking CMM's place would be a good example of this.)

I fully believe that, at present, Jim is no more connected with regard to theme parks than is the slightly-above average user here. He can claim he is well-connected all he wants, but his posts definitely demonstrate the opposite.

This is meant as no offense to you, as I think you're a great contributor here, but I really think Jim Hill has lost it.

Honestly, Jim holds back more rumors now because he's been called out too many times. The last two real "breaking" things that he put up were the Monster's Inc Coaster and Night Kingdom. There are people that will argue that neither of those ever existed, but both projects definitely did at some point.

I've said it on here before, but we had a post show, off the record conversation with Jim several months before Lee broke the news about the Seven Dwarf's Mine Train. In that conversation Jim cited a conversation he had with an individual at Imagineering that Tom Staggs wasn't happy with Jay Rasulo's version of Fantasyland and wanted to change it. From there he said that the Seven Dwarf's Mine Train was back on the table. That's the type of comment that Jim would throw into an article as a teaser for something else but he didn't even do that. He had a great source on it, but he couldn't get a second person to go on record that it was being considered.

He's also been burned by people in the past, trusted sources that have given him good information historically butcher a rumor and get something completely wrong. He (like any other reporter) is then faced with the tough decision about how to handle that source in the future. He actually discussed this on the most recent episode of Magical Definition.

We had him on to discuss Avatar and by his own admission because of the Huffington Post job his "calls are getting rejected by a higher class of people." Here's what I think happens with Jim - he gets information from trusted sources but the timeline of the rumor or the stage of development are either not clearly articulated to him or are not articulated when he makes that information public. That gets him in trouble with the fan communities, but short of saying, "According to Imagineer XYZ in my visit to Such and Such location on Such and Such a date, this is going to happen in this location at this time." Those types of details don't typically come out from anywhere, including Disney. Even then, those things are subject to change.

Some of the current stuff that Jim has out there is pretty far fetched, and some of it has already been refuted by other trusted insiders here.

• 5th gate in the form of a boutique park before the 50th Anniversary
• World of Avatar will be located south of Camp Minnie Mickey
• A version of Carsland will find it's way into DHS and Pixar Place will be expanded
• The next expansion to the Wizarding World of Harry Potter will not be a Gringotts Coaster
• As part of the Shanghai agreement, Disney is looking to acquire Pandas for the Animal Kingdom

Some things that Jim has told me since January that I have either posted here and had refuted, or asked insiders off the record and had refuted that turned out to be true:

• C3PO will be the pilot in Star Tours
• The Seven Dwarf's Mine Train will replace Aurora's Cottage and Cinderlla's Chateau

It has already been mentioned that Festival of the Lion King will be getting a new home within AK, clearing additional space for the Avatar expansion.

None of our trusted insiders, nor Disney has said specifically where World of Avatar will go. Jim Hill has said that it would go South of Camp Minnie Mickey but the only thing likely to have to move would be the Rainforest Cafe.

 

[ChrisM]

This is a great site, a fascinating forum, and in general I find most of you to be an entertaining lot, but it hadn't truly crystallized in my mind until just now what an absolutely pathetic situation trading on the fringes of theme park rumors truly is.

When that goofy, angry Donald Duck podcast guy is defending that kinda creepy, sarcastic guy with the rumor site and the funny voice from the criticisms of the guy who runs every photograph he's ever taken through high dynamic range filters, and I'm actually spending time reading and re-reading their posts and trying to puzzle out who I think is most credible, it's probably time to take a step back and re-evaluate some of the decisions I'm making in my life.

Respectfully, you guys are nuts.

 

[Atomicmickey]

This is a great site, a fascinating forum, and in general I find most of you to be an entertaining lot, but it hadn't truly crystallized in my mind until just now what an absolutely pathetic situation trading on the fringes of theme park rumors truly is.

When that goofy, angry Donald Duck podcast guy is defending that kinda creepy, sarcastic guy with the rumor site and the funny voice from the criticisms of the guy who runs every photograph he's ever taken through high dynamic range filters, and I'm actually spending time reading and re-reading their posts and trying to puzzle out who I think is most credible, it's probably time to take a step back and re-evaluate some of the decisions I'm making in my life.

Respectfully, you guys are nuts.

I got you beat. I just read THAT. :lol:

*runs off to change the world, or something*