Avatar (the movie) and its Sequels

[Ghost93]

What we know so far:

3. Avatar: The Seed Bearer – December 20, 2024

4. Avatar: The Tulkun Rider – December 18, 2026

5. Avatar: The Quest of Eywa – December 22, 2028

Cameron has been hinting at a possible break for 4 and 5 though. So those dates may change by a year or two.

Since 3 is almost completely filmed, I think it will make it's Dec. 2024 release date.

However, I could easily see Avatar 4 being pushed back a year. If James Cameron is spending so much time in 2023 and 2024 completing the visual effects for Avatar 3, he won't have time to focus on shooting Avatar 4.

Btw, I am 99% sure that they will change the title of the third movie to something else. Calling a movie "the seed bearer" will just open itself up to a lot of jokes from the internet.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Since 3 is almost completely filmed, I think it will make it's Dec. 2024 release date.

However, I could easily see Avatar 4 being pushed back a year. If James Cameron is spending so much time in 2023 and 2024 completing the visual effects for Avatar 3, he won't have time to focus on shooting Avatar 4.

Btw, I am 99% sure that they will change the title of the third movie to something else. Calling a movie "the seed bearer" will just open itself up to a lot of jokes from the internet.

The internet already hates Avatar. It's not a movie for the terminally Online, it's a movie for normies.

 

[Disney Irish]

Since 3 is almost completely filmed, I think it will make it's Dec. 2024 release date.

However, I could easily see Avatar 4 being pushed back a year. If James Cameron is spending so much time in 2023 and 2024 completing the visual effects for Avatar 3, he won't have time to focus on shooting Avatar 4.

Btw, I am 99% sure that they will change the title of the third movie to something else. Calling a movie "the seed bearer" will just open itself up to a lot of jokes from the internet.

I have no problem with the title of 3.

I wouldn't be surprised if 4 is 2027 and 5 is 2029/2030.

 

[Jedijax719]

This movie is having the same effect as the first one which is why it will keep going and going. It's the "okay, I may as well find a day to go see it since it's such an experience". Probably what I am going to do at some point.

 

[BrianLo]

I’m still confused about the people who were saying it was a flop after the first weekend.

They were expecting a Marvel or Star Wars opening weekend. Or at least a bit more loaded that way. On top of the quoted obscene budget.

Avatar didn’t really have that great of an opening weekend, to be fair to the industry. There’s a reason we keep seeing its predictions slowly dialed up and up. Even there was grumbling about how Rogue One did (much better start) and then there was some relief at its post Christmas holds for that movie from my memory.

Top Gun is actually an excellent domestic comp. Except there was no ‘pressure’ for Top Gun to make back its budget week one like there are with marvel and Star Wars.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

 

[CaptainAmerica]

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

The HFR has been something many people dislike, but this comment on Reddit (not verified as coming from JC of course) explains why is was used, and I can see it being true. I saw the movie in laser digital 3D and never felt any fatigue towards the 3D image. Filming it in native 3D helped too I'm sure, but it's clear Cameron knows what he's doing when it comes to presentation.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/02/movies/avatar-the-way-of-water-high-frame-rate.html

"Someone asked Cameron about the HFR, and he gave a thorough and insightful answer. Remember that feeling in Avatar 1 when you felt like the 3D gave you a headache, fatigue, or just uneasiness? Well, his team spent years researching exactly why that happened, and it turns out that vertical wide shot parallax combined with 24fps resulted in enough of a left/right vertical strobe that it hurt the brain to comprehend. Remember, at the time, Avatar was breaking new ground so it's not like they had years to run R&D tests on the public. The solution to the strobe effect was to double the frame rate. It immediately eliminates that sense of 3D fatigue. Cameron was the first to admit that he wasn't a huge fan of the format, but it was essential to keep audiences engaged, so that's why he chose not to use it the entire movie. Creatively, he said he chose to use the effect for every underwater sequence to separate the two worlds and to heighten the realism of the underwater effects, but above water he only used it when necessary. He even went on to say that since watching it at our screening he saw some shots he wished he had kept at 24fps."

 

[CaptainAmerica]

The HFR has been something many people dislike, but this comment on Reddit (not verified as coming from JC of course) explains why is was used, and I can see it being true. I saw the movie in laser digital 3D and never felt any fatigue towards the 3D image. Filming it in native 3D helped too I'm sure, but it's clear Cameron knows what he's doing when it comes to presentation.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/02/movies/avatar-the-way-of-water-high-frame-rate.html

"Someone asked Cameron about the HFR, and he gave a thorough and insightful answer. Remember that feeling in Avatar 1 when you felt like the 3D gave you a headache, fatigue, or just uneasiness? Well, his team spent years researching exactly why that happened, and it turns out that vertical wide shot parallax combined with 24fps resulted in enough of a left/right vertical strobe that it hurt the brain to comprehend. Remember, at the time, Avatar was breaking new ground so it's not like they had years to run R&D tests on the public. The solution to the strobe effect was to double the frame rate. It immediately eliminates that sense of 3D fatigue. Cameron was the first to admit that he wasn't a huge fan of the format, but it was essential to keep audiences engaged, so that's why he chose not to use it the entire movie. Creatively, he said he chose to use the effect for every underwater sequence to separate the two worlds and to heighten the realism of the underwater effects, but above water he only used it when necessary. He even went on to say that since watching it at our screening he saw some shots he wished he had kept at 24fps."

My beef with the HFR is that it felt very video-gamey. The train crash and any of the ikran scenes were especially bad. The water parts looked good. The gunplay looked amazing.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

You must be watching different Hollywood movies than me. A father and husband who isn't a buffoon or a monster is damn near groundbreaking, particularly in a film aimed at the parents, not the kids.

When Jake gets a bit too aggressive disciplining the kids and Neytiri says "this isn't a squad, it's a family," that was such a wonderful example how good parents lift one another up and compensate for each other's weaknesses.

There was a reason the Bartons felt like such a breath of fresh air in Age of Ultron and this was basically a whole movie set on Hawkeye's farm.

I can't say I see a lot of bufoonish characters in shows and movies. Maybe I just avoid shows that rely on those lazy characterizations to generate cheap laughs.

Still, Kudos to Cameron for not being lazy and giving us dumb or stereotypical characters to generate cheap laughs or whatever, but that doesn't change my opinion that the family stuff and overall story are still very basic.

The writing is good to be clear - the fact that a 3+ hour held my attention is no small feat. Compare that to something like the Michael Bay Transformers movies where the human segments are just bad and tedious, and you just want them to get to robots fighting and for the movie to be an hour shorter.

This is a great summary from a Reddit user on how the storytelling in Avatar is quite simple, but why it works for this franchise. I still wish the story and characters had a little more depth. It's what stops this franchise from generating passion the way Star Wars and Avengers movies do. Doesn't mean I don't love it and will have no hesitation seeing future installments.

1. Avatar is one of the few major franchises that don't require homework

This is a big one for me, and why I feel like a lot of people enjoy Avatar. It is extremely accessible. Look at our major franchises--Marvel, DC, Jurassic Park, Fast and Furious, Harry Potter, etc. These franchises have been coming out for literal decades and require so much homework and hours of content to watch the newest release. Marvel has made it worse by creating Disney+ shows. If you miss out on a couple Marvel releases, you will be set back from watching the newest release. Avatar is not like that. If you watch the first one, you are good. Simple.

2. Avatar is something new in a crowded market

This point is connected to the first one. In a space where we get the same blockbusters again and again, Avatar is something different to look at.

3. It is not too complicated

People rag on Avatar's simple story, but the simpleness of Avatar is paramount to its success. It is very easy to follow. It doesn't demand too much of the audience. The characters are black and white. There is clear good and evil. You root for the relatable family just trying to survive, and root against the evil military baddies. Themes of family, safety, persecution, love, and nature are universal and not beholden to one region.

4. Avatar is four quadrant.

Avatar is the definition of a four quadrant franchise. There is something appealing about it to every demographic, especially after the children characters were introduced. The films do a great job of displaying diversity in ages, without dumbing down the characters either. Everyone can see themselves in at least one character. The characters being blue aliens also help people project themselves onto the characters without the barriers of real world race and politics.

5. It looks pretty, and incentives premium screens

The Avatar films are gorgeous. The Way of Water has the best CGI I have ever seen. Movies are visual mediums, and if a movie looks pretty, then that will be remarked on. People want to see it on premium screens, which costs more. People are also willing to wait for a better screening and sits, which contributes to the low drops it receives week by week.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

I can't say I see a lot of bufoonish characters in shows and movies. Maybe I just avoid shows that rely on those lazy characterizations to generate cheap laughs.

Not just "characters." Fathers.

Why does TV portray every dad as a dimwit?

Somehow, in both big and small ways, in unwitting behaviours that corrode society, fathers and fatherhood have become a laughing stock.

www.dailymail.co.uk

On TV, Dads Are Idiots, and That's Not a Good Thing

On television shows, dads have been portrayed as incompetent dolts reflecting and encouraging a damaging attitude towards men and childcare.

www.theatlantic.com

Why Are TV Dads Such Buffoons?

Sitcom fathers rarely represent what being a parent is actually like. But does that matter?

www.menshealth.com

Why are most dads portrayed on sitcoms as buffoons?

Answer (1 of 12): The infotainment complex for many decades now has promoted politically correct scripts and stories . In such women children and minorities are to be revered and respected, so who is left ? That pretty much leaves adult men as the fall guy . Women were not in the workplace as muc...

www.quora.com

Dumbing down Dad: How media present husbands, fathers as useless

If you happen to watch Nickelodeon, ABC, Fox or really any TV station or round of commercials, you've most likely witnessed the overbearing portrayal of the modern-day husband and father as lazy, incompetent and stupid.

www.deseret.com

 

[CaptainAmerica]

The Way of Water will bring in $2 billion.

No chance.

Lol rekt.

 

[Disney Analyst]

James Cameron’s Avatar: The Way of Water has now officially, and as projected, crossed the $1 billion mark at the international box office with Tuesday’s grosses included. What’s more for this 20th Century Studios/Disney juggernaut, at $1,482.5M worldwide through Tuesday, the epic sci-fi sequel is next on its way to yet another milestone and will top $1.5B global when today’s numbers are factored. In doing so, it will become the No. 1 worldwide release of 2022, surpassing Top Gun: Maverick’s $1.489B.

The overseas cume through Tuesday is $1.025B, after adding $28.3M in 52 international markets yesterday (a 44% drop from last Tuesday). WoW is the No. 1 offshore release of 2022 and No. 2 of the pandemic era. It stands as the No. 9 international release of all time, moving up from No. 11 having just passed The Fate of the Furiousand Jurassic World after 21 days in movie theaters.

Globally, it is the No. 12 biggest release ever, now overtaking Disney’s own Frozen II.
Following the holiday period, and while some offshore markets still have local holidays, midweeks continue to be strong and there is plenty of runway ahead.
Not included in the totals above, China’s Wednesday brought in an estimated $3M for a local running cume of $170M. Maoyan is projecting a $215M final. Similarly not included above, Korea reached $78.8M through today.
Through Tuesday, the Top 10 overseas markets are: China ($165.5M), France ($95M), Korea ($77.2M), Germany ($73.4M), UK ($59.5M), India ($51.4M), Mexico ($39.1M), Australia ($37.9M), Italy ($33.8M) and Spain ($30.5M).

‘Avatar: The Way Of Water’ Moves Up To No. 9 On All-Time Global Chart With $1.547B

Avatar: The Way of Water has jumped into the No. 9 slot with Thursday’s grosses included, overtaking 'The Avengers' with $1.547B worldwide

deadline.com

 

[DKampy]

Lol rekt.

Yeah many of the doubters look foolish…and after seeing the 2nd one… I now have confidence the third one will be a success as well

 

[Ghost93]

The HFR has been something many people dislike, but this comment on Reddit (not verified as coming from JC of course) explains why is was used, and I can see it being true. I saw the movie in laser digital 3D and never felt any fatigue towards the 3D image. Filming it in native 3D helped too I'm sure, but it's clear Cameron knows what he's doing when it comes to presentation.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/02/movies/avatar-the-way-of-water-high-frame-rate.html

"Someone asked Cameron about the HFR, and he gave a thorough and insightful answer. Remember that feeling in Avatar 1 when you felt like the 3D gave you a headache, fatigue, or just uneasiness? Well, his team spent years researching exactly why that happened, and it turns out that vertical wide shot parallax combined with 24fps resulted in enough of a left/right vertical strobe that it hurt the brain to comprehend. Remember, at the time, Avatar was breaking new ground so it's not like they had years to run R&D tests on the public. The solution to the strobe effect was to double the frame rate. It immediately eliminates that sense of 3D fatigue. Cameron was the first to admit that he wasn't a huge fan of the format, but it was essential to keep audiences engaged, so that's why he chose not to use it the entire movie. Creatively, he said he chose to use the effect for every underwater sequence to separate the two worlds and to heighten the realism of the underwater effects, but above water he only used it when necessary. He even went on to say that since watching it at our screening he saw some shots he wished he had kept at 24fps."

You know I saw the movie in IMAX 3d, Dolby 3d, and regular RealD3 and I only noticed one or two shots where the frame rate seemed weird (near the end of the movie, the action seemed somewhat sped up). I see all this controversy about the high frame rate but I hardly noticed it any of the three times I saw the movie.

 

[BrianLo]

I have no idea how high it's going, other than 2 billion seems very reachable. The holds for the last three days though were stellar (all time 3rd Sunday, Monday, Tuesday); I kind of feel like this may ramp into an all time highest 3rd week. It starts to shift us away from the excellent comp that was Rogue one and into more wild territory.

At this stage, I think it is surpassing Disney's most optimistic internal projections. Funny, since Wall Street declared it a failure on December 23rd.

 

[BrianLo]

By the way, James Cameron corrected himself in a more recent interview, saying the movie needed to be more top 10 to break even (1.4-1.5 billion).

He was using some off the cuff hyperbole to frame how costly the movie was to make.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

By the way, James Cameron corrected himself in a more recent interview, saying the movie needed to be more top 10 to break even (1.4-1.5 billion).

He was using some off the cuff hyperbole to frame how costly the movie was to make.

Yeah, I think anyone who spent a few minutes thinking about it knew he was just being flippant. Though I've seen some speculation that Disney might be on the hook for a few hundred million more beyond what they've already paid to Lightstorm because the original deal between Cameron and 21CF didn't contemplate streaming rights.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

They'd better figure those streaming rights out.

Based on Disney's other movies this year Avatar should be on Disney+ by March at the latest

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

‘Avatar: The Way Of Water’ Moves Up To No. 9 On All-Time Global Chart With $1.547B

Avatar: The Way of Water has jumped into the No. 9 slot with Thursday’s grosses included, overtaking 'The Avengers' with $1.547B worldwide

deadline.com

Not taking inflation into account, it appears to be outperforming the first Avatar. Curious to see how what kind of legs this one has.

Avatar

www.boxofficemojo.com

Avatar: The Way of Water

www.boxofficemojo.com