AVATAR land coming to Disney's Animal Kingdom

[flynnibus]

So when you made a blanket statement like disney is good at being inefficent, I was confused. Dino-Rama is a specific case, but for the most part, disney combines the attractions, the details and the cost to make great experiences for their guests. I don't see Disney as being wasteful, but that is just me

Because you apparently have no point of reference... for what the money involved is.. or what other people do with money.

The statement didn't make sense to you because you lack the knowledge in the topic. It wasn't a complex statement. Especially for anyone with even a fleeting following of park history familiar with the reputation WDI has both internally and externally for excessive costs and inefficiencies with money in the last two decades.

 

[HenryMystic]

It's just plain magical to spend twice as much on something as your competitor. That's how you know it will be Pixie Dust ApprovedTM

 

[spacemt354]

No - completely different arguments and really I'm not going to continue to spell out the obvious. You are either being difficult, or really should just sit back and absorb a lot more before jumping into these conversations.

You still are obvlious to the core concepts here. It's not about how many people.. and no, success at the end does not justify waste.

Because you apparently have no point of reference... for what the money involved is.. or what other people do with money.

The statement didn't make sense to you because you lack the knowledge in the topic. It wasn't a complex statement. Especially for anyone with even a fleeting following of park history familiar with the reputation WDI has both internally and externally for excessive costs and inefficiencies with money in the last two decades.

I don't know why people like you are inclined to hand out intellectual judgements to invisible people with usernames like myself, just because I don't agree with you.

When you say success in the end does not justify waste, that's your opinion. I don't share the same opinion as you. It doesn't make you any more right than I am. How does one measure success? If a movie is reviewed badly by critics, does that make it universal truth that the movie wasn't a success? No. Everyone is going to have a different opinion. What you think is a success and what I think is a success could be completely different things, but it doesn't make either one of us wrong.

From my view, Inefficiencies and successes, that's all determined based on the barometer of someone's opinion. I don't know why we can't just have conversations on here without getting all emotional. If someone doesn't agree, like myself, I will make points, you will probably not agree, and then we move on. You can't say that someone's opinion is flat-out wrong. It's their opinion, and even if they don't agree with you, I don't feel there is a need to insult an invisible person based on what you feel is an apparent lack of knowledge. I don't agree with you, so what? Why get all emotional about it? We are talking about Disney for crying out loud... it's not the end of the world. So with that I will continue to view things from my perspective, and now I say we move back on to the original topic of the thread, which is Avatar.

 

[flynnibus]

You obviously have zero business experience and I'm not going to waste my time reviewing fundamentals.

Waste and popularity do not cancel each other out. Popular doesn't equate to success either. Ever seen a popular chain in your town close? Think about why...

Or maybe I'll try to put it in terms you can digest. If building something like tot costs so much the company can not afford to build the next attraction... It doesn't matter how popular tot is.. The park with wither under its costs and guests will get turned off when the park does nothing else.

These concepts are not a matter of opinion - they are basic business concepts. You can keep holding onto your theory but it's simply wrong.

.

 

[spacemt354]

I really am looking forward to seeing what Disney will do with Avatar. I think it has a lot of potential and if it's placed in the camp Minnie Mickey area, it will nicely separate the park. The front being reserved for mythological and prehistoric animals, and the back of the park for real live animals (excluding the yeti in Everest) I would hope this land would bring at least 2 attractions. And e-ticket and maybe a c or d as well. I also hope they still utilize the festival of the lion king building, maybe for a nighttime show, who knows. But I look forward to the concept art and I'm interested for what is in store

 

[Patricia Melton]

I have changed my mind about an Avatar land: I was vehemently against it, but have reconsidered and now think it could be very interesting.

You know what changed my mind? Carsland...specifically how well they pulled that off at DCA.

I do not enjoy the Cars movies but my nephew LOVES the characters from them. He watches the first Cars movie at least once a week (the second one he's seen maybe 5 times and think is boring, so he'd rather watch the first one again and again). I showed him pictures and YouTube videos of Carsland and the look on that boy's face is just incredible. "That's REAL??????" he asks me. We're taking him for Christmas to visit it in person and honestly I am almost as excited as he is because though I am not a big ride person I do love the idea of being transported to a whole other world by Imagineers. And I want to eat all the goodies in the Cozy Cone shops and the V-8 restaurant.

I am one of the people who also thought that Storybook Circus would be a dud at Magic Kingdom...and while I still would have preferred Neverland or some other theme to the area...I have to admit how great a job Imagineers did with the area. It is gorgeous and immersive and magical.

So, I've reevaluated what I think of the potential for "Avatar Land". I started calling it "Pandora" in my head, because that matches "Africa" and "Asia" better in the Animal Kingdom park (though "Avatar Land" sounds like "Dino Land" which is there too).

We still don't know where this is going to be located, for sure, but since the Lion King show is moving out of Camp Minnie Mickey I'm betting that Avatar is going to be built where Beastly Kingdom was intended....and instead of getting mythology we're going to get Science Fiction animals.

I am 100% positive the imagineers will try to top Carsland in terms of theming and immersion, so we're going to get a land at Animal Kingdom that feels like another planet. I think it's going to be incredible, regardless of the fact that I didn't much like the movie. But the movie's message about conservation and respect for nature is pretty similar to what's consistently said at Animal Kingdom. There's already even a giant tree in the park, like the tree that's in the Avatar movie. No doubt sight lines will be planned so that from Avatar's land you can see the Tree of Life in the center of the park and have it be a stand-in for the tree from the movie.

I also think we're going to get a few cool rides out of the Avatar Land...and since they are far from where the live animals are located, the rides can be pretty spectacular.

* A flying ride, like you are riding those creatures that the blue cat people flew on
* A river rafting ride or an underwater ride showcasing the aquatic animals that James Cameron is putting into the Avatar sequels
* Perhaps an omnimover dark ride that's a Pandora Alien Zoo that could show you all sorts of weird creatures that would be too small to feature on a fast-moving ride
* A coaster that makes you feel like you are zipping through the jungles of Pandora and you have to avoid being eaten by the monsters there

I picture cast members on stilts to make them tall like the blue cat people (forgot their names). There are stilt walkers in other parks all the time so I can see them making costumes that make them look like the cat people from the movie.

For food, I'm wondering how they would create a dining experience....maybe you would eat at the mess hall for the camp where the scientists were studying the cat people? Surrounding the restaurant would be fields full of weird alien crops. This could actually be made like the African village and the Asian village that is there...only this "village" would be the little camp where the humans and the cat people interact. This way, everything would be built to human scale instead of giant blue cat people scale. Instead of a blue cat person village it would be the human village that is there interacting with them, and the blue cat people village would be in the distance unseen.

Merchandise could easily be sold at a trading outpost where humans trade goods with the blue cat people.

I think if they build the Avatar stuff on the Camp Minnie Mickey site then there'd be room for Australia in the future where Rafiki's planet watch would be, or they could build Australia next to Asia in the future.

Honestly, even if the next Avatar movies are not very popular I think I would love to spend some time on this "alien planet". Carsland and Storybook Circus prove that WDI is at the top of their game. I now believe that if they do go ahead with Avatar at Animal Kingdom that it will be spectacular and will provide a lot more things to do later at night so that the animals can sleep in the 'real world' part of the park while people can enjoy the stuff in Avatar land. Also, because the Avatar movie had so many things that were bioluminescent, I bet that part of the park would look GORGEOUS at night...all glowing and enchanting and alien looking.

There is nothing else like that in the whole world.

 

[ZaneB]

I started calling it "Pandora" in my head, because that matches "Africa" and "Asia" better in the Animal Kingdom park (though "Avatar Land" sounds like "Dino Land" which is there too.

You said it perfectly! Since I heard about Avatar Land there was one thing I know they had to I avoid it failing. It wouldn't matter how much they spent or how amazing they made it, everything would be for nothing if they didn't call it "Pandora"!

Just by using that name they avoid the problem of people not knowing what Avatar is in 15 years and the area not fitting in with Animal Kingdom.

I just hope they use that name :/

 

[misterID]

If I can built X for $10
And WDI builds the exact same thing and spends $20

That's being inefficient with money. Why are we being bogged down with the simple concepts?

And that's being generous. Isn't it more like $10 compared to $50 at this point?

 

[ChrisFL]

Patricia Melton, I don't mean to pick on you, but while I appreciate your post, its full of the reasons why I don't think Avatar is a good fit.

In general I hear the same things from people who watched Avatar....its those blue people with that big tree, and that guy, whats-his-name got romantic with whats-her-face, near those glowing tree thingys, and then they took a ride on that flying bird thing.

Yes, I know Splash Mountain, etc. etc.,but I know they really want to push for merchandise and I don't see this happening on the same level as other franchises.

 

[RSoxNo1]

I have changed my mind about an Avatar land: I was vehemently against it, but have reconsidered and now think it could be very interesting.

You know what changed my mind? Carsland...specifically how well they pulled that off at DCA.

I do not enjoy the Cars movies but my nephew LOVES the characters from them. He watches the first Cars movie at least once a week (the second one he's seen maybe 5 times and think is boring, so he'd rather watch the first one again and again). I showed him pictures and YouTube videos of Carsland and the look on that boy's face is just incredible. "That's REAL??????" he asks me. We're taking him for Christmas to visit it in person and honestly I am almost as excited as he is because though I am not a big ride person I do love the idea of being transported to a whole other world by Imagineers. And I want to eat all the goodies in the Cozy Cone shops and the V-8 restaurant.

I am one of the people who also thought that Storybook Circus would be a dud at Magic Kingdom...and while I still would have preferred Neverland or some other theme to the area...I have to admit how great a job Imagineers did with the area. It is gorgeous and immersive and magical.

So, I've reevaluated what I think of the potential for "Avatar Land". I started calling it "Pandora" in my head, because that matches "Africa" and "Asia" better in the Animal Kingdom park (though "Avatar Land" sounds like "Dino Land" which is there too).

We still don't know where this is going to be located, for sure, but since the Lion King show is moving out of Camp Minnie Mickey I'm betting that Avatar is going to be built where Beastly Kingdom was intended....and instead of getting mythology we're going to get Science Fiction animals.

I am 100% positive the imagineers will try to top Carsland in terms of theming and immersion, so we're going to get a land at Animal Kingdom that feels like another planet. I think it's going to be incredible, regardless of the fact that I didn't much like the movie. But the movie's message about conservation and respect for nature is pretty similar to what's consistently said at Animal Kingdom. There's already even a giant tree in the park, like the tree that's in the Avatar movie. No doubt sight lines will be planned so that from Avatar's land you can see the Tree of Life in the center of the park and have it be a stand-in for the tree from the movie.

I also think we're going to get a few cool rides out of the Avatar Land...and since they are far from where the live animals are located, the rides can be pretty spectacular.

* A flying ride, like you are riding those creatures that the blue cat people flew on
* A river rafting ride or an underwater ride showcasing the aquatic animals that James Cameron is putting into the Avatar sequels
* Perhaps an omnimover dark ride that's a Pandora Alien Zoo that could show you all sorts of weird creatures that would be too small to feature on a fast-moving ride
* A coaster that makes you feel like you are zipping through the jungles of Pandora and you have to avoid being eaten by the monsters there

I picture cast members on stilts to make them tall like the blue cat people (forgot their names). There are stilt walkers in other parks all the time so I can see them making costumes that make them look like the cat people from the movie.

For food, I'm wondering how they would create a dining experience....maybe you would eat at the mess hall for the camp where the scientists were studying the cat people? Surrounding the restaurant would be fields full of weird alien crops. This could actually be made like the African village and the Asian village that is there...only this "village" would be the little camp where the humans and the cat people interact. This way, everything would be built to human scale instead of giant blue cat people scale. Instead of a blue cat person village it would be the human village that is there interacting with them, and the blue cat people village would be in the distance unseen.

Merchandise could easily be sold at a trading outpost where humans trade goods with the blue cat people.

I think if they build the Avatar stuff on the Camp Minnie Mickey site then there'd be room for Australia in the future where Rafiki's planet watch would be, or they could build Australia next to Asia in the future.

Honestly, even if the next Avatar movies are not very popular I think I would love to spend some time on this "alien planet". Carsland and Storybook Circus prove that WDI is at the top of their game. I now believe that if they do go ahead with Avatar at Animal Kingdom that it will be spectacular and will provide a lot more things to do later at night so that the animals can sleep in the 'real world' part of the park while people can enjoy the stuff in Avatar land. Also, because the Avatar movie had so many things that were bioluminescent, I bet that part of the park would look GORGEOUS at night...all glowing and enchanting and alien looking.

There is nothing else like that in the whole world.

This is what many of us have been saying for a while. For many of us that are in favor of World of Avatar it's not because we love the franchise, it's because we think the possibilities for the execution are intriguing. We haven't seen a single spec of concept art, the entire experience is shrouded in mystery. We know so little about it that I really don't think the outright hatred of the concept is justified.

What I do understand are the reactions from people that feel that the franchise tie in may be unnecssary, or that they should have chosen another franchise to anchor another park (Star Wars in DHS for example). These are valid concerns, but none of them mean that World of Avatar is going to be bad. It's the negativity about the expectations that are grating.

 

[Beholder]

Pandora, if cultivated correctly, could potentially be a wealth of merchandising opportunities. All the alien animal life could easily translate into toys, playsets, figurines and more "high end" collectibles. Plush Na'vi in different scales and configurations. Nature guides and books on the wild life and customs of Pandora. Lots of blue face paint.

Avatar may not be everybody's first choice (not mine) for a new land, but if they're going to do it, then do it right. Pull no punches. Look down the street at IOA and across the country at DCA and realize that the right budget with a bold vision translates into interest = visitors = $$$

 

[Patricia Melton]

Patricia Melton, I don't mean to pick on you, but while I appreciate your post, its full of the reasons why I don't think Avatar is a good fit.

In general I hear the same things from people who watched Avatar....its those blue people with that big tree, and that guy, whats-his-name got romantic with whats-her-face, near those glowing tree thingys, and then they took a ride on that flying bird thing.

Yes, I know Splash Mountain, etc. etc.,but I know they really want to push for merchandise and I don't see this happening on the same level as other franchises.

ChrisFL --

I consider myself pretty knowledgable about movies. My husband is retired and we babysit a lot so I think I end up watching almost every movie that comes out (except the really violent ones). I'm also in a Movie Club (like a book club, but we watch movies instead and discuss them). I can pretty much tell you the plot, main characters, and ending to almost any movie you would name without having to look any of it up on the Google.

But, honestly, I have no idea what any of the characters in Avatar are called. I know there's a guy named "Jake" but the only reason I know that is because my husband Earl has a rabbit named "Jake" and I can't stand that rabbit (because it makes such a mess and causes the garage to stink). So I know the young soldier who was paralyzed is named Jake and then he's later turned into a blue cat person.

I know the planet is named "Pandora" and it's filled with creatures that have six legs, not four.

And then the storyline is pretty much Pocahontas in space with characters who have weird names I can't remember. Sigourney Weaver is in it, I know that, but her character is the opposite of the one she played in Alien(s). In Avatar she played a kind of whimsy woman instead of a big tough Ripley.

I think "Pandora" and the Avatar movies are two different commodities...because I think you can look at an Avatar land two different ways.

I personally would see an attraction like this as "the alien planet land", where we'd see alien creatures and presumably would have educational kiosks and signage that would teach us about how life could exist differently on an alien world like Pandora. I think it could be interesting to see the research that went into the Pandora wildlife and hear stories from scientists about why they think creatures would look like this on an alien moon.

However, I don't think focusing on the characters in the actual movies would work because none of these characters are memorable. I'm not talking about the animals, because those were more or less memorable (even if I can't name them, I know there were space pterodactyls and monster-panthers and a fire dragon bird and hammerhead-shark-elephants). There is no character in Avatar that is comparable to "Indiana Jones" or "Han Solo" for instance. They just aren't memorable.

So you are correct in what you wrote...but I think I am correct in what I'm talking about in terms of the "alien planet land" being something that I would love to experience. I wouldn't be going to celebrate the lackluster Avatar movies...but I would be going to a place where my imagination could run wild on an alien moon.

 

[Jedeye80]

Can we not even wait and see wha the plans are for Pandora before judging, the DCA expansion might just have lit a fire under TDO that spurs them to make Pandora as good as it should be. I don't want Avatar in the parks but it's better than nothing, I bet there are plenty of people who know nothing of the parks that would laugh at you if you said your favourite ride was the twilight zone tower of terror. Let us trust the imaginneers, maybe they have been waiting for something like this to unleash their talents on, they might surprise us all.

 

[danlb_2000]

Can we not even wait and see wha the plans are for Pandora before judging, the DCA expansion might just have lit a fire under TDO that spurs them to make Pandora as good as it should be. I don't want Avatar in the parks but it's better than nothing, I bet there are plenty of people who know nothing of the parks that would laugh at you if you said your favourite ride was the twilight zone tower of terror. Let us trust the imaginneers, maybe they have been waiting for something like this to unleash their talents on, they might surprise us all.

I have total faith in the Imagineers, it's management that worries me.

 

[doctornick]

You said it perfectly! Since I heard about Avatar Land there was one thing I know they had to I avoid it failing. It wouldn't matter how much they spent or how amazing they made it, everything would be for nothing if they didn't call it "Pandora"!

Just by using that name they avoid the problem of people not knowing what Avatar is in 15 years and the area not fitting in with Animal Kingdom.

I just hope they use that name :/

My idea is that they call it "Pandora: The Land of Avatar" to begin with, at least in descriptions and promotional material. That way, there is some ties to the Avatar name which is more familiar (a lot of people who have seen the movie probably wouldn't be able to tell you the name of the world is Pandora), but it would be easy in the future to officially shorten the name to just "Pandora" or just use that colloquially until it basically becomes official.

But, yeah, "Pandora", not "Avatarland".

 

[Jedeye80]

I have total faith in the Imagineers, it's management that worries me.

Maybe the managment in TDO will be overruled on this, Jim Cameron doesn't seem to be the type of person who will let his pet project be messed about.

 

[Cosmic Commando]

Can we not even wait and see wha the plans are for Pandora before judging, the DCA expansion might just have lit a fire under TDO that spurs them to make Pandora as good as it should be.

If their biggest competitor opening something really cool a few miles up the road didn't light that fire under their collective butts, I would say their butts are fireproof.

 

[Patricia Melton]

Can we not even wait and see wha the plans are for Pandora before judging, the DCA expansion might just have lit a fire under TDO that spurs them to make Pandora as good as it should be. I don't want Avatar in the parks but it's better than nothing, I bet there are plenty of people who know nothing of the parks that would laugh at you if you said your favourite ride was the twilight zone tower of terror. Let us trust the imaginneers, maybe they have been waiting for something like this to unleash their talents on, they might surprise us all.

Jedeye's comment made me think.

Particularly the "better than nothing" part.

I actually really love Animal Kingdom because there are parts here and there that are so well done I really feel like I am in Africa. I went there once, many years ago, to Botswana, South Africa, Zambia, and Zimbabwe. Animal Kingdom captures the spirit very well...and the food at Animal Kingdom Lodge is actually better than 80% of what I had in Africa. It's pretty marvelous, actually. We try to stay at the Lodge in a savannah room as often as possible when we go to Disney and actually enjoy the distance it is from everything else because the excitement builds as we are traveling to the other parks.

That said, even though I can spend a full day at Animal Kingdom I know it doesn't have enough attractions for some people. I know this because my niece and nephew typically want to leave after a few hours because they see it as a zoo and that's the attention span limit they have for zoos. Both are under 13, but neither of them like Chester & Hester's Dino Land area. My nephew actually calls it "creepy" because some cartoon he saw was set at a carnival and he's afraid of it...and Chester & Hester's reminds him of that creepy carnival.

If I had magical powers and could create anything I wanted at Animal Kingdom what would I create that would enhance this place for my niece and nephew?

* Australia --- it would be so perfect to have an Outback village that would be a counterpart to the African and Asian villages. The Australian animals would include kangaroos, wallabies, emu, koala, dingos, lots of birds and lizards, crocodiles, a spider exhibit, and other distinctly Australian creatures. There would also be a Great Barrier Reef ride of some kind...a C or D ticket dark ride....that would see Nemo and his friends and all the fish of the reef.

* South America -- a land with at least one E-ticket attraction going through the rain forest. South American animals.

* Complete re-do of DinoLand so that there'd be prehistoric mammals too (from the ice age) and a Jungle Cruise ride that would involve time travel to see dinosaurs (have seen concept art for this). Instead of being hokey and a creepy carnival, the emphasis would be on the wonder of seeing dinosaurs for real. It would be ten times as interesting and exciting as Jurassic Park at Universal.

* Beastly Kingdom mythical animals...I still want this and will always want this. There's no denying that. I wish they could create a castle that would house a royal menagerie of mythical creatures from Europe...as well as real life animals that could have inspired these creatures. I saw a documentary that showed how ancient Greeks found Triceratops skulls and thought they were griffins and thought elephant skulls were the heads of cyclops. I think they could have the castle be in ruins and there would be a base camp for archaeologists who are unearthing the ruins...and at the camp you would learn the "real story" of the origins of the myths...but inside the ruins the myths would all come to life in the rides. Could be an interesting way to bring some magic into Animal Kingdom.

* Alien Life...what is life like on other planets? Let's speculate and see what's out there. Let's teach kids how different planets have different paths of evolution and how we think gravity, atmosphere, and other factors might foster different kinds of animals. I think this would be a VERY interesting educational experience that could really inspire a thirst for learning in many kids. I know my son and daughter would have LOVED this as kids. My son especially, since he at the age of 10 or so watched the Carl Saga documentary series on possible extraterrestrial life and it was a LONG documentary but he loved every second of it. I know other little boys and girls must be similarly fascinated by the possibilities of life in the stars.

So, all that being said, I think an "alien life" area of Animal Kingdom is very appropriate. Do I wish it had been something other than Avatar? YES! Personally, I think Disney is foolish to have not used Star Wars for its alien life. There is a massive amount of creatures designed for the Star Wars world. An Ewok village could have been built at Animal Kingdom...and there could have been a ride through Endor on speeders past all the life on that green moon. And there could be a Coruscant area with an alien zoo with an omnimover that shows you life from all the movies and the Star Wars cartoons and books. There could easily be a water ride based on Naboo's aquatic life from the Phantom Menace. Tons of possibilities.

I think Star Wars will be popular 100 years from now. Avatar will be forgotten. But even if the Avatar movies are not remembered, a land at Disney devoted to alien life will always be interesting.

I'm glad it's coming, even if I'll never watch the Avatar movie ever again.

 

[Patricia Melton]

Maybe the managment in TDO will be overruled on this, Jim Cameron doesn't seem to be the type of person who will let his pet project be messed about.

THIS is such an important comment!

I keep forgetting about James Cameron and how protective/driven he is. The man has been very obsessed with his Avatar world for many years now. He is not about to allow Disney to do a poor job with Pandora, even if TDO would want to do that. Cameron's contract with Disney MUST include creative approval. In the year 2012, he just would not have signed onto this if he didn't have the same control over Avatar in the parks that J.K. Rowling had over Harry Potter at Universal.

I am sure that Cameron will approve EVERYTHING the Imagineers do and that he will insist on it being spectacular.

This, in my opinion, means there will definitely be some sort of underwater aspect to Pandora at Animal Kingdom because Cameron is obsessed with the ocean life. Avatar 2 will be all about the oceans of Pandora...so watch for a second generation sub ride of some kind into the seas of Pandora. I am sure Cameron and Imagineering will come up with a way to create the illusion of being underwater and seeing the alien sea life without all the hassles that maintenance faced with the old 20,0000 Leagues ride (or Nemo subs). I bet they find a way to make guests feel like they are underwater without that really being the case so that animatronics do not have to hold up to water/chlorination/sun damage like in the old lagoon.

Cameron will also insist on a flying ride of some kind. Too much of Avatar was spent zooming around on those space pterodactyls for there not to be a flying ride.

Honestly, I think as much detail will go into Pandora as went into Harry Potter at Universal. Cameron and Rowling seem like they'd be equal taskmasters with the same level of protection of their creations.

 

[bubbles1812]

THIS is such an important comment!

I keep forgetting about James Cameron and how protective/driven he is. The man has been very obsessed with his Avatar world for many years now. He is not about to allow Disney to do a poor job with Pandora, even if TDO would want to do that. Cameron's contract with Disney MUST include creative approval. In the year 2012, he just would not have signed onto this if he didn't have the same control over Avatar in the parks that J.K. Rowling had over Harry Potter at Universal.

I am sure that Cameron will approve EVERYTHING the Imagineers do and that he will insist on it being spectacular.

This, in my opinion, means there will definitely be some sort of underwater aspect to Pandora at Animal Kingdom because Cameron is obsessed with the ocean life. Avatar 2 will be all about the oceans of Pandora...so watch for a second generation sub ride of some kind into the seas of Pandora. I am sure Cameron and Imagineering will come up with a way to create the illusion of being underwater and seeing the alien sea life without all the hassles that maintenance faced with the old 20,0000 Leagues ride (or Nemo subs). I bet they find a way to make guests feel like they are underwater without that really being the case so that animatronics do not have to hold up to water/chlorination/sun damage like in the old lagoon.

Cameron will also insist on a flying ride of some kind. Too much of Avatar was spent zooming around on those space pterodactyls for there not to be a flying ride.

Honestly, I think as much detail will go into Pandora as went into Harry Potter at Universal. Cameron and Rowling seem like they'd be equal taskmasters with the same level of protection of their creations.

I do agree with you about Cameron and how protective he is of his projects. Say what you will about the man (from everything I've ever read he is definitely not the easiest to work with) but he does like the visuals of all his projects whether they be film or otherwise to be well done. I still look at Titanic and am amazed at some of the stuff he did with the sinking of the ship. It still looks great to this day.

I'm sure his contract with Disney allows him some creative approval but I'm not sure how much. There is a reason J.K. Rowling said no to Disney and if she had gone with them, I certainly don't think we would have gotten the scale/rides/unique merchandise...everything really that we have today at Universal. Disney made it clear they wanted creative control and that they didn't want to spend the money (Big mistake on their part).

I'd be curious to know the terms of Cameron-Disney contract. I hope Cameron got more creative control than Rowling was offered with Potter. If the TDO is fully or even mostly in charge, I think Avatar is going to end up botched because they will want to cut the budget and by extension, the scale of the attraction. That has been their pattern so far. And Avatar is a project that needs to have scale/at least one big ride to stay relevant even after the film series has concluded because Avatar is definitely not Potter when it comes to thinking about staying power.

I love your idea of a ride featuring water. When he went to Challenger Deep, I thought that was so freaking cool! And I agree about a ride featuring flying as well...actually I think that's about the only news we've heard about the project since it was announced.

I hope as much detail will go into Pandora as is going into HP but again, I have to remain skeptical. There have already been reports on here from Insiders that TDO wants to scale the project back. And with less money, they definitely can't do quite as much detail as i think the project deserves and will likely need.