Avatar in Tomorrowland

[Disney Irish]

I thought your initial argument was that Disney fans underestimated Avatar saying it hasn't remained culturally significant. (To which people agreed that it still has box office power despite not becoming a story that audiences latched onto outside of the theater).

Now you have changed the argument to be that Avatar is technically important for its industry...which nobody is really arguing that it isn't.

Not really, I'm actually arguing both.

Avatar has had a cultural impact with both the global audience and behind the scenes in the industry.

 

[Professortango1]

I think The Terminator and Terminator 2 were as close as he got to cultural importance and maybe Titanic. He started out a model maker for Roger Corman. The space ship Neil was built by him for Battle Beyond the Stars. Since then he and Lucas has been pushing the envelop on the technical side of movie making. Granted his film writing isn't that great but it sure is better than anything Disney is putting out now. I'm looking at you Strange World!

Disney and its affiliates have been struggling. Their live action films were always regarded as C-level entertainment. Marvel broke that conception for awhile, but lately its been directors and actors who have been helping those movies overcome weaker writing. Even Pixar has been very miss lately.

Its almost as if rushing to create movies like a factory rather than finding stories filmmakers want to tell and giving them time to do so is a bad idea. The folks doing caricatures may be great artists, but they are never going to create something worthy of being hung in museum while sitting in the street drawing 20 drawings a day.

Fast food movies are becoming a real problem just like they were in the Studio System days.

 

[Rich T]

Not sure I agree with that. We'll have to see how it goes in a couple years when Avatar 3 comes out. If the box office dies off between 2 and 3 then I would agree with you, but if it doesn't then we know its not just an "event" film but also people are actually interested in the characters and story.

Just ask around the GP: Nearly nobody knows/remembers these characters. On Flight of Passage, no-one cares about the boring preshow—or the mind-numbing techno-babble about matching with an avatar. People just want to ride the cool dragon-thing and then go eat a hamburger.

I’m fairly certain people will go see the next one too; it’s a spectacular world to behold on a big screen. And then it’ll be forgotten until the next one. It’s the movie equivalent of Ice Capades.

UNLESS Cameron pulls a fast one and actually creates an Avatar movie with memorable characters. It’s certainly possible. But I still don’t want it in Disneyland unless they bulldoze Galaxy’s Armpit for it (Rise can stay, though).

 

[Rich T]

…Fast food movies are becoming a real problem just like they were in the Studio System days.

I prefer the Studio System movies to what’s going on today. At least they had charm and (usually) class.

 

[Disney Irish]

Just ask around the GP: Nearly nobody knows/remembers these characters. On Flight of Passage, no-one cares about the boring preshow—or the mind-numbing techno-babble about matching with an avatar. People just want to ride the cool dragon-thing and then go eat a hamburger.

I’m fairly certain people will go see the next one too; it’s a spectacular world to behold on a big screen. And then it’ll be forgotten until the next one. It’s the movie equivalent of Ice Capades.

UNLESS Cameron pulls a fast one and actually creates an Avatar movie with memorable characters. It’s certainly possible. But I still don’t want it in Disneyland unless they bulldoze Galaxy’s Armpit for it (Rise can stay, though).

This maybe true in some respects with US audiences and its tendency to just bounce from one thing to the next with little regard for what they've just experienced. But outside the US I don't think that its the case, the international numbers show that in my opinion.

 

[truecoat]

As for merch and cultural impact, I don't need to see the receipts. I can just say that I SEE people sporting Potter and Star Wars and Frozen. I don't see people sporting Avatar.

So the movies made for kids are selling more merch than Avatar? I would agree with that.

 

[Rich T]

But outside the US I don't think that its the case, the international numbers show that in my opinion.

Disney Studios Paris needs Pandora.

 

[Disney Irish]

Disney Studios Paris needs Pandora.

At almost $100M in ticket sales from France alone for Avatar 2, yeah I agree with you.

 

[Professortango1]

So the movies made for kids are selling more merch than Avatar? I would agree with that.

I'd say Tarantino and Blumhouse sell more merch than Avatar. I don't see or hear about Avatar in any of my classes or social circles other than "I just saw it and liked it/didn't like it."

 

[SuddenStorm]

I'd say Tarantino and Blumhouse sell more merch than Avatar. I don't see or hear about Avatar in any of my classes or social circles other than "I just saw it and liked it/didn't like it."

It's the strangest thing. No one talks about Avatar, but then it's a movie everyone feels they have to see. Everyone was saying it had limited cultural impact- that it's only appeal was the tech and 3D- and then a sequel that comes out over a decade later is immensely popular.

 

[Rich T]

It's the strangest thing. No one talks about Avatar, but then it's a movie everyone feels they have to see. Everyone was saying it had limited cultural impact- that it's only appeal was the tech and 3D- and then a sequel that comes out over a decade later is immensely popular.

FOMO.

 

[SuddenStorm]

FOMO.

Eh, I'm sure that's part of it but FOMO doesn't earn a film 1.4 billion globally.

 

[CaptinEO]

People have a misconception that something needs to constantly be selling toys or have spinoff tv shows and video games to be a success.

This is how Disney has operated for a long time.

Not saying Avatar was popular in public consciousness and that people were dying to see the story continue, but IMO I'd much rather see a dead franchise get a movie a decade later than the onslaught of media Disney has been doing for any popular series in the last 20 years.

Cameron understands what draws people into movie theaters, same as Tom Cruise. I had a great 3+ hour 3D visual experience. Typical plotline for a fantasy/war film but I had a fun time and glad to see a movie that doesnt feel the need to throw jokes in every 2 minutes (looking at you Marvel).

 

[Rich T]

Eh, I'm sure that's part of it but FOMO doesn't earn a film 1.4 billion globally.

No, but I think it counts for about half of it, at least the U.S share.

 

[Phroobar]

We shouldn't judge a movie on how many toys or merch that is sold. Looking at Target and Walmart after Christmas shows a ton of left over Black Panther Wakanda Forever and Buzz Lightyear merch that no one wanted. There is also a ton of left over Obi-Wan Kenobi and Andor toys that no one wants. However I do see less Avatar figures than before Christmas.

 

[Disney Irish]

We shouldn't judge a movie on how many toys or merch that is sold. Looking at Target and Walmart after Christmas shows a ton of left over Black Panther Wakanda Forever and Buzz Lightyear merch that no one wanted. There is also a ton of left over Obi-Wan Kenobi and Andor toys that no one wants. However I do see less Avatar figures than before Christmas.

I would agree, current generations aren't as interested in the collectables as past generations. The amount of merch sold isn't as large a factor as it was in the 70s-90s.

 

[Phroobar]

I would agree, current generations aren't as interested in the collectables as past generations. The amount of merch sold isn't as large a factor as it was in the 70s-90s.

However these are pretty cool and the lego sets were pretty nice.

 

[Professortango1]

Eh, I'm sure that's part of it but FOMO doesn't earn a film 1.4 billion globally.

When there is literally nothing else to see in theatres over the biggest holiday season of the year, it certainly helps.

Plus, I can't recall another movie this year that people felt the need to see on the big screen. Disney+ made us comfortable watching Marvel and Animation at home. Horror is often watched at home. The last "cinematic" movie like it I can recall is Dune, and that is a very niche market whereas Avatar is as accessible as a Saturday morning cartoon.

Let's also not forget that the sequel is less popular in terms of tickets sold than it's predecessor, something unusual for an emerging franchise. Usually ticket sales are like a bell curve, getting bigger each successful sequel until fatigue and/or laziness begins to seep in.

 

[Professortango1]

People have a misconception that something needs to constantly be selling toys or have spinoff tv shows and video games to be a success.

This is how Disney has operated for a long time.

Not saying Avatar was popular in public consciousness and that people were dying to see the story continue, but IMO I'd much rather see a dead franchise get a movie a decade later than the onslaught of media Disney has been doing for any popular series in the last 20 years.

Cameron understands what draws people into movie theaters, same as Tom Cruise. I had a great 3+ hour 3D visual experience. Typical plotline for a fantasy/war film but I had a fun time and glad to see a movie that doesnt feel the need to throw jokes in every 2 minutes (looking at you Marvel).

Not at all. Maverick was insanely popular this year as a film, but its not going to generate merch. Everything Everywhere All At Once had the largest growth this year of any movie, yet you didn't see Hot Dog Hand costumes at Halloween. People on this thread, at least myself, are not talking about success. Avatar is successful. What the discussion is about is cultural impact. Whether the franchise and world become a part of our culture the same way that other franchises have. Avatar is being compared to Potter, Star Wars, Indiana Jones. Perhaps unfairly as those are decades old, but the reason is due to the questioning of whether it belongs next to these franchises in a theme park setting.

In the end, I say sure. But that is because I truly believe a great ride doesn't need to have an insanely popular movie as its source of inspiration. I wanted the Atlantis ride. Not because I thought Atlantis was anything ground-breaking, I just think the ride sounded great and like it could stand on its own regardless of how well the film did. The same way as I don't care for the Transformer movies, but its an entertaining ride experience.

 

[waltography]

...Everything Everywhere All At Once had the largest growth this year of any movie, yet you didn't see Hot Dog Hand costumes at Halloween...

Just a random aside, but when I went to Oogie Boogie Bash this past year, I saw a surprising number of Racacoonie/Evelyn/Waymond/Deirdre costumes particularly from the older Gen Z and younger millennial crowd. Maybe a geographic/demographic phenomenon though.