News Avatar Experience coming to Disneyland Resort

[waltography]

Remember one of the biggest complaints heard back in the day about DCA was the lack of "Disney" in the Park, the lack of recognizable IP. So I don't see how they could have gone into that direction you're talking about long term anyways.

Lack of recognizable IP is one part of what made DCA 1.0 a failure, but I'd argue the more pressing issue was it lacked the Disney sensibility to foster nostalgia for an unrealized past. Soarin' Over California is proof that a theme park that celebrates California could be interesting, emotional, and worthwhile; it's a shame the rest of the park let it down.

If they treated "California" as an idea just as they did with the sea in TDS, we would have been fine. It would have likely been a park similar to EPCOT with it being free from IP's and rather than Edutainment, would have explored the themes and stories that California inspires.

El Dorado was rumored to be here. Manifest Destiny. Bigfoot, Lost City of Mu, Shasta Lights, Winchester Mystery House, vintage San Francisco. Heck, Baxter's Discovery Bay could have fit DCA had it been done right. But, as Disney Sea took a lot of money and big thinking, this too would require that commitment from Disney. And Disney doesn't do that anymore.
I wonder, in an alternate timeline, had they done DCA correctly, would that have ushered in another golden age for theme parks? Or would they still learn the wrong lesson from Potter.

In my ideal build-out, we'd get a Mystic Manor in the style of the Winchester Mystery House where Redwood Creek is and Discovery Bay by way of San Francisco where San Fransokyo Square is. I could live without Paradise Pier but don't mind the Victorian boardwalk direction they started taking it with DCA 2.0.

 

[MistaDee]

Mission BO "landed" or "appeared" at Disney California Adventure Park across from Disneyland. That's the story they told us and the eventually got the ground updated with the affected pavement from the apparition of this building.

Mission BO acknowledges that DCA and all that within it are part of a theme park in SoCal and that its right next to Disneyland.

Very much the same metafictional, Guardians treatment of Epcot in Cosmic Rewind.

I feel like Pandora doesn't have the same tenuous, "story" justifications to "land" in our present day Disney Adventure (CA)

 

[MistaDee]

My white whale of unbuilt attractions planned for DCA was their original take on Tower of Terror. Supposedly they were going to build a variation on the ride themed around the Eagles' song 'Hotel California,' with the attraction being named the same. Unfortunately, I've never been able to find much information about it save for the fact that it was to be built around the wharf area. As you've said, that kind of fantastic take on California culture and history would have lent the park a much stronger foundation.

I'd totally try a Hotel California or Californication drop profile/jam for Mission Breakout

 

[Disney Irish]

Lack of recognizable IP is one part of what made DCA 1.0 a failure, but I'd argue the more pressing issue was it lacked the Disney sensibility to foster nostalgia for an unrealized past. Soarin' Over California is proof that a theme park that celebrates California could be interesting, emotional, and worthwhile; it's a shame the rest of the park let it down.

I disagree, and I've argued this point many times on this site, a theme park themed to a fantasized version of the place it resides is dumb and very limiting. If it was such a good idea then why didn't Disney do it for any other of its resorts, like one for Florida, or Shanghai, or Hong Kong, or why didn't OLC demand one for TDL? Florida has a lot of rich history, so why wouldn't it work there for a 5th gate? I don't see very many, if any at all, calling for that to be the theme of the demanded 5th gate. No I think the only reason why some are still stuck on this idea that DCA must continue this "California" theme is just because it opened that way. But if it was built from scratch today very few, if any at all, would even consider it in the top 10 themes they would use for the park, heck I would bet not many would even put it in the top 25 themes. No, most would probably go with something like a Villains Park or something similar.

Its one thing to build a single attraction themed on its parks location, its a completely different thing to build a whole park around it. Its why you don't see the concept used elsewhere.

 

[Professortango1]

No offense but most of that stuff sounds boring to me, especially as a California native, in a theme park setting. I don't need my Park to be a fantasized history lesson about California, I was born and raised here and studied its real history in school.

Remember one of the biggest complaints heard back in the day about DCA was the lack of "Disney" in the Park, the lack of recognizable IP. So I don't see how they could have gone into that direction you're talking about long term anyways.

A lost civilization of telepaths in an Atlantean world is something you learn about in History Class? And sounds boring? Bigfoot is boring and too historical? UFO lights around Mt Shasta is something they cover in school and kids are bored by? A house being built like a maze to trick spirits is bland? A city of gold, Discovery Bay; these don't excite imagination in you?

In 2001, Disneyland had its IP mostly confined to Fantasyland and Toontown. Indiana Jones Adventure was in AL and Splash was in Critter Country, Star Wars was in TL, but they were the exceptions.

The complaint about a lack of Disney in the park isn't solely about IP's. It's that the types of magical original experiences like Big Thunder, Tiki Room, Haunted Mansion, Pirates of the Carribean, Space Mountain, Matterhorn, Primeval World, Country Bears; these attractions were missing from DCA. In any form. DCA opened with an original darkride based on ABC's B-list celebs, Soarin (a bare bones concept of an attraction without any Disney magic), a lifeless but pretty rafting ride, a fake wooden coaster, and that's it for major rides. Nothing had character. We didn't need Disney characters per se, but we did need some level of characters and story to be present in the park.

Had DCA opened with a Gold Rush themed rafting ride filled with music and visual gags like Pirates, Buena Vista Street, a Hollywoodland that featured Dick Tracy's Crime Stoppers and a Great Movie Ride that focused on Disney Animation, a fully themed Soarin, Discovery Bay instead of Paradise Pier, and a Spanish Mission-themed area with a Zorro-themed E-ticket; we would have a very different history of the park. A park with 4-5 brand new, never before seen, world-class Disney attractions. Give me an Alien Encounter but themed to Bigfoot or the Wendigo in Grizzly Peak and you have a park with a lot to experience and offer.

Instead we got a park full of carnival rides, the design of the Orange County Faire Grounds, and a few E-tickets that were fun but lacked the quality and charm that we associate with Disney.

 

[Consumer]

I just want great attractions and the other lands to feel immersive like Cars Land. I think the CA theme holds the park back because of its restrictions, and expecting GCH to be the reason the CA theme or Grizzly remains is too hopeful. The more the park moves away from CA the better it becomes and the more park attendance rises.

Not even true.

 

[Professortango1]

But even if you change the name you’ll still have BVS and Grizzly Peak so you’d have to retheme those lands for a full divorce… which I am vehemently opposed to as they are beautifully themed lands with great place making. I can understand why some may prefer a name change. I don’t find it necessary. I like the ring of California Adventure and I still think it makes sense. I think that viewing DCA as an Adventure park in California is a much smaller leap than saying Bugs Land, Cars Land, Mission BO, Mermaid etc have any real connection to California.

Not that I think they have to but they can just come out with a new rededication of there park with a plaque and new spiel describing that this is Disneys Adventure Park in California that celebrates some of the States natural beauty, Walt’s history here and many of the worlds and adventures created by the talented artists at the Burbank, Hollywood, Emeryville studios etc. I think there’s a little more meat there and more of a thesis than just a straightforward “these are adventures from our movies.” Much cheaper and easier than rebranding the park too. I hate the ring of Cinematic Adventure as it kind of brings my mind back to the ride the movies USH approach which IMO kind of makes it all feel less “real and organic.”

My rededication spiel would make even more sense if they put Avatar in the Simba lot as you’d have the front of the park be about the States Natural beauty and Walt’s history here and then as you move to towards the back it becomes about all of the worlds/ adventures created by the artists in the Burbank, Emeryville and Hollywood studios.

BVS fits the park if it is focused on IP's. It is a park dedicated to the worlds that Disney has helped create. But if its a park solely dedicated to "Adventure," I don't think BVS fits. Or RSR as its a sleepy town. So that is a far bigger leap that acknowledging the very real connections that each land has to California, since the Imagineers purposefully put those connections in due to the idea of the park. Cars Land is there because of Route 66 and Car Culture. PP is there because of our beaches and piers. Grizzly Peak is shaped like our State Animal of California, Avengers Campus makes references to being next to Disneyland and themed to a Tech Campus because of the California theme of the park. It's not a big leap, since we know these things were designed to be this way. They were not designed to be focused on "Adventure."

Its just sad that Disney was fixing DCA for a brief period before they lost control of the vehicle. Now, its a mess that is California tied, but moving to more and more IPs being dumped in lazily. Avatar's arrival will be the tipping point where it no longer tries to tie to California, despite the rest of the park still having those ties and the name/dedication not fitting what the park is.

 

[Professortango1]

I disagree, and I've argued this point many times on this site, a theme park themed to a fantasized version of the place it resides is dumb and very limiting. If it was such a good idea then why didn't Disney do it for any other of its resorts, like one for Florida, or Shanghai, or Hong Kong, or why didn't OLC demand one for TDL? Florida has a lot of rich history, so why wouldn't it work there for a 5th gate? I don't see very many, if any at all, calling for that to be the theme of the demanded 5th gate. No I think the only reason why some are still stuck on this idea that DCA must continue this "California" theme is just because it opened that way. But if it was built from scratch today very few, if any at all, would even consider it in the top 10 themes they would use for the park, heck I would bet not many would even put it in the top 25 themes. No, most would probably go with something like a Villains Park or something similar.

Its one thing to build a single attraction themed on its parks location, its a completely different thing to build a whole park around it. Its why you don't see the concept used elsewhere.

Most of Florida is a swamp. California has snowy mountains, dry deserts, warm Pacific Coastal beaches, iconic mecca-like cities of Los Angeles and San Francisco, the magic of Tinsel-Town. California's size allows the state to have a wide variety of lands/stories to draw off of that other states simply do not have. Partner that with a wide history and it being a destination for dreamers at a multitude of eras across our country's history and you have the basis for compelling stories and a celebration of these ideas.

 

[Disney Irish]

A lost civilization of telepaths in an Atlantean world is something you learn about in History Class? And sounds boring? Bigfoot is boring and too historical? UFO lights around Mt Shasta is something they cover in school and kids are bored by? A house being built like a maze to trick spirits is bland? A city of gold, Discovery Bay; these don't excite imagination in you?

Once again, I don't want a Park to be a fantasized history lesson about California, I was born and raised here and studied its real history in school. So even if your examples are things that really didn't happen in California history or are taught in school, I don't need some "fake" version of history either.

In 2001, Disneyland had its IP mostly confined to Fantasyland and Toontown. Indiana Jones Adventure was in AL and Splash was in Critter Country, Star Wars was in TL, but they were the exceptions.

Hmm, so every land in DL but NOS had an IP based attraction? That seems more like the rule (set by Eisner since the 80s) than the exception, something guests would come to expect in their Disney Parks. An expectation that wasn't met when the new Park opened next door.

The complaint about a lack of Disney in the park isn't solely about IP's. It's that the types of magical original experiences like Big Thunder, Tiki Room, Haunted Mansion, Pirates of the Carribean, Space Mountain, Matterhorn, Primeval World, Country Bears; these attractions were missing from DCA. In any form. DCA opened with an original darkride based on ABC's B-list celebs, Soarin (a bare bones concept of an attraction without any Disney magic), a lifeless but pretty rafting ride, a fake wooden coaster, and that's it for major rides. Nothing had character. We didn't need Disney characters per se, but we did need some level of characters and story to be present in the park.

Had DCA opened with a Gold Rush themed rafting ride filled with music and visual gags like Pirates, Buena Vista Street, a Hollywoodland that featured Dick Tracy's Crime Stoppers and a Great Movie Ride that focused on Disney Animation, a fully themed Soarin, Discovery Bay instead of Paradise Pier, and a Spanish Mission-themed area with a Zorro-themed E-ticket; we would have a very different history of the park. A park with 4-5 brand new, never before seen, world-class Disney attractions. Give me an Alien Encounter but themed to Bigfoot or the Wendigo in Grizzly Peak and you have a park with a lot to experience and offer.

Instead we got a park full of carnival rides, the design of the Orange County Faire Grounds, and a few E-tickets that were fun but lacked the quality and charm that we associate with Disney.

You and I just have different definitions of what DCA should have been, and what it should be today. As I said in another post, if the concept of fantasized version of locales surrounding the Parks work why wasn't it done elsewhere? Its a very limited concept, one that doesn't seem to translate well to a theme park. Because if it did we'd have at least another one somewhere in the world built by Disney. Its a flawed concept, one that is hopefully going away permanently soon enough.

 

[Disney Irish]

Most of Florida is a swamp. California has snowy mountains, dry deserts, warm Pacific Coastal beaches, iconic mecca-like cities of Los Angeles and San Francisco, the magic of Tinsel-Town. California's size allows the state to have a wide variety of lands/stories to draw off of that other states simply do not have. Partner that with a wide history and it being a destination for dreamers at a multitude of eras across our country's history and you have the basis for compelling stories and a celebration of these ideas.

Hmm, so Florida has no history that is worth having a theme park themed around? So you don't want a Ponce De Leon searching for the Fountain of Youth attraction? Hence why I said it was a limiting concept, its a nice idea, but it just doesn't work in practice.

 

[Professortango1]

Once again, I don't want a Park to be a fantasized history lesson about California, I was born and raised here and studied its real history in school. So even if your examples are things that really didn't happen in California history or are taught in school, I don't need some "fake" version of history either.


Hmm, so every land in DL but NOS had an IP based attraction? That seems more like the rule (set by Eisner since the 80s) than the exception, something guests would come to expect in their Disney Parks. An expectation that wasn't met when the new Park opened next door.


You and I just have different definitions of what DCA should have been, and what it should be today. As I said in another post, if the concept of fantasized version of locales surrounding the Parks work why wasn't it done elsewhere? Its a very limited concept, one that doesn't seem to translate well to a theme park. Because if it did we'd have at least another one somewhere in the world built by Disney. Its a flawed concept, one that is hopefully going away permanently soon enough.

Are you not a fan of Disney Sea? They made an entire park themed around the idea of Exploration and Adventure that the seas inspire rather than a Sea World type park. It's a fantasized version of locales and most people haven't found it to be limiting.

 

[Disney Irish]

Are you not a fan of Disney Sea? They made an entire park themed around the idea of Exploration and Adventure that the seas inspire rather than a Sea World type park. It's a fantasized version of locales and most people haven't found it to be limiting.

Is the Park themed only to "Tokyo" or even "Japan"? No, its a broadly themed park that isn't limited by being themed only to its locale, something that you insist you want DCA to do, being themed to "California".

 

[Architectural Guinea Pig]

s

Is the Park themed only to "Tokyo" or even "Japan"? No, it’s a broadly themed park that isn't limited by being themed only to its locale, something that you insist you want DCA to do, being themed to "California".

Does that make Hollywood Studios limited to Hollywood?

 

[Disney Irish]

s

Does that make Hollywood Studios limited to Hollywood?

LOL, no as that is not themed to just the physical locale of "Hollywood", but rather to the theme of a "studio lot", and even that is limiting in my opinion. I've never been fond of the "Studios Park" concept. Its why I'm glad they started to go away from it.

Anything that limits the theming to something specific and not a broad concept is too limiting in my opinion.

 

[Professortango1]

Is the Park themed only to "Tokyo" or even "Japan"? No, its a broadly themed park that isn't limited by being themed to its locale, something that you insist you want DCA to do, being themed to "California".

But the locales presented are as varied as we can have in a proper DCA.

American Waterfront - Hollywoodland - A land devoted to a vintage world that never was
Mysterious Island - Mystery Peak - A unusual forested area with creatures of legends and explorations to hidden worlds
Mermaid Lagoon - Toon Studios - An indoor land where we visit a film studio run by toons and features darkrides/spinners for kids.
Port Discovery - Discovery Bay - A seaside Steampunk land focused on innovation
Lost River Delta - Eureka Junction - A boom town filled with steam donkeys overhead, a mine cart coaster, and River Rapid attraction WRE mix
Arabian Coast - El Dorado - A Spanish Mission-inspired city of gold and Mexican American legends

 

[DLR92]

Not even true.

I don’t like new additions to DCA. Never cared for Marvel and never will. I rather keep the California theme.

 

[Disney Irish]

But the locales presented are as varied as we can have in a proper DCA.

American Waterfront - Hollywoodland - A land devoted to a vintage world that never was
Mysterious Island - Mystery Peak - A unusual forested area with creatures of legends and explorations to hidden worlds
Mermaid Lagoon - Toon Studios - An indoor land where we visit a film studio run by toons and features darkrides/spinners for kids.
Port Discovery - Discovery Bay - A seaside Steampunk land focused on innovation
Lost River Delta - A boom town filled with steam donkeys overhead, a mine cart coaster, and River Rapid attraction WRE mix
Arabian Coast - El Dorado - A Spanish Mission-inspired city of gold and Mexican American legends

You're reaching there. The point is TDS is not themed to just Tokyo or Japan, its a broadly themed park that isn't locked into just one locale.

Bottom line, you aren't going to change my opinion here. Having DCA locked into "California" as a theme is dumb to me, it limits what they can do with it. I'm glad you like the theme, but I'm not sad that they have moved away from being locked into it.

 

[AZDLR]

I don’t like new additions to DCA. Never cared for Marvel and never will. I rather keep the California theme.

While you and many classic fans of the original parks may feel this way, you are dramatically in the minority. Star wars and Harry potter have a massive presence in theme parks around the country because of their success and popularity. Marvel is bigger than both put together. While I wish they would have had the patience creating avengers campus that they did when they started the MCU, hopefully the 2 new attractions will make the land worthy of the fan base.

As far as the CA theme. Eh. I think it can still keep the overall them by using Hollywood land as a gateway to the imagination coming out of the magic of Hollywood. Leave GRR and soarin alone. No need to change the name either.

 

[coffeefan]

A California-themed park would definitely have worked more than one based on Florida if done thoughtfully, because California has much more to offer.

And Grizzly Peak would be improved too, because the layout only allowed for two rides despite its big footprint.

Entry park corridor: Buena Vista Street is fine because of Walts connection

History:
Chinatown with Mulan attraction and a dragon coaster
Gold Rush town with a long indoor mine coaster
Spanish/Mexico pueblo with a Zorro ride similar to Indy
Wild California - a land dedicated to wildlife, nature, and conservation
Port Los Angeles - a land representing global connections and a global bazar of cuisines and goods

Culture:
Hollywood Land would represent golden age of movies and land would branch off into Star Wars Land, Avatar Land, and Marvel Land
Foggy Village - A land inspired by the works of Californian authors and literature
Music Land - A land where music never stops - Electric guitar-driven coaster, a venue for regular live band performances
X-Sports: An entertainment and stunts show celebrating skateboarding and surfing and other sports invented in California.

Innovation:
Digital Valley inspired by Silicon Valley would have TRON coaster, Wreck it Ralph, and a Sugar Rush ride
Pixar Land would have a Pixar hub with Pixar attractions and rides, Cars Land and Monstropolis would be here as well
Discovery Road: A place inspired by California innovations

 

[Phroobar]

A California-themed park would definitely have worked more than one based on Florida if done thoughtfully, because California has much more to offer.

And Grizzly Peak would be improved too, because the layout only allowed for two rides despite its big footprint.

Entry park corridor: Buena Vista Street is fine because of Walts connection

History:
Chinatown with Mulan attraction and a dragon coaster
Gold Rush town with a long indoor mine coaster
Spanish/Mexico pueblo with a Zorro ride similar to Indy
Wild California - a land dedicated to wildlife, nature, and conservation
Port Los Angeles - a land representing global connections and a global bazar of cuisines and goods

Culture:
Hollywood Land would represent golden age of movies and land would branch off into Star Wars Land, Avatar Land, and Marvel Land
Foggy Village - A land inspired by the works of Californian authors and literature
Music Land - A land where music never stops - Electric guitar-driven coaster, a venue for regular live band performances
X-Sports: An entertainment and stunts show celebrating skateboarding and surfing and other sports invented in California.

Innovation:
Digital Valley inspired by Silicon Valley would have TRON coaster, Wreck it Ralph, and a Sugar Rush ride
Pixar Land would have a Pixar hub with Pixar attractions and rides, Cars Land and Monstropolis would be here as well
Discovery Road: A place inspired by California innovations

Disney Florida Adventure
Spring Break Land - beach party of co-eds - the ride and beer gardens
Alligator Bayou Land - with Swamp Thing/Man Thing - the ride and Alligator petting
Retirement Land - Trailer park with old people - Trapped in a Retirement home - the ride!, Hurricane - the ride!, DVC - the sales pitch - the ride!
Theme park Land - biggest land celebrating theme parks with miscellaneous copies of rides from Disney World, Sea World, Universal, Bush Gardens and Legoland