Avatar 2 and 3 Delayed??? The Effect on Avatarland at WDW...

[MAF]

Now would be a good time to move on from this idea onto something else for DAK....

I couldn't agree more. Disney should pretend like this idiotic idea never existed and I doubt the average park goer would even notice.

 

[ctxak98]

Merchandising may be a problem... Once guests are inside the gates of WDW, all rational thought goes out the window... There are many people out there that HAS TO buy any and all merchandise Disney puts out simply because it is Disney... The same would hold true for Avatar... As long as a Disney label is on it, there are people who would buy it... Question then would be, is that enough??? I'm not so sure....

As for Iger, we all know he is leaving in 2015, right??? Maybe even before then... So this will be pushed off to the next CEO, whether it is Staggs or someone else... So Iger may not be pushing his hand... Then again, Iger may want this Avatarland to go down as part of his legacy: IGER IS THE CEO WHO CREATED THE POTTER SWATTER... But, this could also backfire and blow up in his face... We will have to see if, during the course of 2012, they announce the location of Avatar and we start seeing land cleared and prepped.. And even then, that really means nothing...



Do people really care about Avatar anymore even now, never mind 4 years from now??? I never saw the movie in the theater, I waited for DVD release... The movie is stunning in Blu Ray... And I actually enjoyed it, even though I feel it is WAY too long... And even though I enjoyed the movie, if 2 and 3 never get made, I wouldn't feel lost...



You are correct... A lot of people are basing their feelings around the new land because of what they felt about the movie... I think it is funny that a lot of people hate the idea and hate the movie yet didn't even see the movie... If you saw the movie and didn't like it, that is one thing.. If you never saw it and yet hate it, well.....

I think the world of Avatar lends itself to a beautiful themed land for a theme park... And I am sure Cameron and WDI can come up with something fantastic as long as they aren't held to any restraints.. But we know they will be... Doesn't mean they can't still come up with something grand though...

And truth is, the people who are trashing this will be the same people waiting to get into the new ride on opening day (if there ever is an opening day)....

HAHA so true. hopefully there will be an opening!:lookaroun

 

[Ignohippo]

This is true. Whether or not the masses actually liked the film after watching it, the studio still has their money. Obviously Avatar was quite popular at the time, but the only way to know if the sequels will be successful is to look at the sustained demand for the material. This why we only get attractions based on films that are 15-20 years old. The Little Mermaid was a hit in 1989, and on its own merits warranted a theme park attraction. however, Disney only got aeround to approving an attraction basded on it in 2007, some 18 years after it waas released because they could still tell there was a specific demand for that content. (Toy Story is another example.)

Are people still clamoring for Avatar related materials? Is Pandora an environment that people will want to visit again and again, like Radiator Springs will be at DCA? I've never seen the film so I can't personally say if I think Pandora is worthy of a theme park incarnoation. If Pandora is an engaging environment to visit and explore, it won't matter if there are sequels or how well they do at the box office. As long as Disney builds out a high-quality and immersive envionment, people will enjoy it. (See Pirates of the Caribbean and The Haunted Mansions as exmaples of immerive attraction people enjoy in spite of not being originally associated with a film franchise.) I think they just have to make it general enough that a Guest could have never seen anything Abvatar-related and still appreciate and understand the area and its attractions.

With that said, I hope any delay in sequels doesn't delay the Avatar project because (1) the design shouldn't be directly related to any of their plots (like someone said above) and (2) Animal Kingdom sure could use an expansion.

Did people EVER clamor for Avatar related products? The toys were a non-starter.

Personally, I enjoyed the movie a lot more than I thought I would, but don't have any desire to see it again. It's on cable all of the time right now and I pass right by it every time. It was a good movie, but it wasn't necessarily a "fun" movie – not one where you want to watch over and over again. It's probably because of the run time which made the movie a bit more of a chore to watch than it should have been.

 

[Captain Chaos]

Did people EVER clamor for Avatar related products? The toys were a non-starter.

Personally, I enjoyed the movie a lot more than I thought I would, but don't have any desire to see it again. It's on cable all of the time right now and I pass right by it every time. It was a good movie, but it wasn't necessarily a "fun" movie – not one where you want to watch over and over again. It's probably because of the run time which made the movie a bit more of a chore to watch than it should have been.

Ignohippo, you stated my feelings exactly... Like I said, I enjoyed the movie despite the length (way too long)... And even though I liked the movie, it isn't a movie I feel I need to or desire to watch over and over...

 

[Timekeeper]

1. The discussions pertaining the AK Avatar installment continue to be reminiscent of the discussions pertaining to the IOA Harry Potter installment (before it opened). Yes, the HP books and films are popular, but if you line up a random sample of people, those who have read/seen them would still be in the minority. The same criticisms of why Pandora may not be the best idea in the world were also used to criticize HP, and we all know what installment did for Universal. Success would be a understatement. For the same reasons that HP appeals to more than just wizards-to-be, Pandora will appeal to more than just those in search of their own unobtanium.

2. The current state of Avatar merchandizing doesn't really serve as a good predictor for the success of in-park merchandizing or potential consumer demand. Returning to the HP example, what off-the-shelf HP items were available to purchase after the first book, or couple of books, or even the first couple of movies? Nothing too impressive. Fast forward to today, and we've got multiple, overcrowded gift shops all based on a single franchise. Similarly, who knows what unique Avatar items may be created that we don't yet know about? Action figures are yesterday's merchandise. Nowadays, there's more room to be creative with retail offerings, which we will likely see in Pandora.

With that said, before anyone accuses me of a "faulty" comparison, these are just some illustrations of what the current tone of Avatar discussions are reminiscent of. Each film (or book) franchise is obviously very unique.

I suppose that the overall theme here is that it a theme park guest doesn't have to be a fanboy of the franchise in order to enjoy the attractions or for the installation to be a huge success. A good attraction is a good attraction, and a bad one is a bad one, regardless of what franchise it is or is not based on. And if Disney doesn't want it, maybe Universal could turn it into something worthwhile. There are people who have not read a single HP book or seen a single HP movie, and still consider Wizarding World a must visit when at the UO parks. Disney has the opportunity to do the same with Avatar.

 

[jmick71]

why doesn't anybody realize that there are still 2 movies coming out, and whos to say the land will be based on the 1st movie. I think disney would want to focus more on the nature side and less on the military side. most of the land will be about the environment and less of the actual plot of the movie.

for example DINOSAUR is based on a bad movie,(even before they made changes to match the ride even more to the movie) but the plot in the ride is not nearly the same as the plot in the movie, and it is one of the best rides in the park, and if the next two avatar movies are not amazing, why cant disney do the same thing with avatar,keeping the same world with different stories

 

[Figment571]

2. The current state of Avatar merchandizing doesn't really serve as a good predictor for the success of in-park merchandizing or potential consumer demand. Returning to the HP example, what off-the-shelf HP items were available to purchase after the first book, or couple of books, or even the first couple of movies? Nothing too impressive. Fast forward to today, and we've got multiple, overcrowded gift shops all based on a single franchise. Similarly, who knows what unique Avatar items may be created that we don't yet know about? Action figures are yesterday's merchandise. Nowadays, there's more room to be creative with retail offerings, which we will likely see in

I have to disagree with this point tremendously. After the first few Harry Potter books there was a wide range of merchandise. I have a good bit of it, also when the movie came out there was a huge merchandising blitz that occurred and was enormously successful, even in the post 9/11 economy in which it was released. When you look at the merchandise that was released while Avatar was making its 70 bajillion dollars or whatever you see that there was little interest in it. It is not a franchise that lends itself to merchandising that well.

 

[Timekeeper]

I have to disagree with this point tremendously. After the first few Harry Potter books there was a wide range of merchandise. I have a good bit of it, also when the movie came out there was a huge merchandising blitz that occurred and was enormously successful, even in the post 9/11 economy in which it was released.

Are you suggesting that the original merchandising is on par with the theme park's merchandising (including park-exclusive items)? Have you been to the WWoHP gift shops?

When you look at the merchandise that was released while Avatar was making its 70 bajillion dollars or whatever you see that there was little interest in it. It is not a franchise that lends itself to merchandising that well.

Based on what, that which has been released thus far, 1//3 of the final product? And who's to say that Cameron won't integrate more merchandise-friendly elements into the remaining films, now that he knows exactly what business opportunities will be in place, and that shelves in attraction-exit-giftshops need to be filled...

 

[ctxak98]

Idk if we should be basing avatarland at all on the actual movie. SURE they are making a land to do with avatar but I think its going to be more of a hands on experience of walking through Pandora(which is awesome) rather then going into a land and forced to watch a 2+ hour movie! Its not like in avatarland we are going to be forced to sit and watch it. I agree the movie was long but the visuals=best ive seen in a madeup world movie. I cant wait to see what they've come up with!

 

[Phineas fo Prez]

Here is the problem with what you are saying here: you have no basis of fact to say no one wants to visit Avatarland or Pandora or what ever Disney winds up calling it (probably something with 100 words in it, seems like that is how they name things today)...

The first Avatar did over $2 billion in business... That INCLUDES repeat viewings... So obviously there are fans out there... And even if Avatar 2 does half the business as the first movie, that is still $1 billion dollars... Of course no one should suspect Avatar 2 or 3 doing anywhere near $2 billion again... But that doesn't mean the movies will be utter failures...

And the argument that no one would go to Avatar-Pandora in DAK is baseless because Splash Mountain disproves that theory... I bet most, if not all of the regular guests who visit MK have no clue Splash Mountain is based on Song of the South... I will bet majority of the people who wait in the 100 minute long queues have never even seen Song of the South, but the ride is popular... As long as the land is greatly detailed and any rides that may come are great, the crowds will line up and visit this area of the park...

Providing this area ever gets built...

I am not saying that people will not visit Avatarland. There are probably thousands of people who will make a trip to WDW just to go to it.

However, even thought it grossed however millions of dollars, I don't see the non-avatar fan making a trip to DAK just to visit Avatarland. I mean I could be completly wrong, but I don't see it being the huge draw as what Potter is, and I think there are plenty of other Disney fans and Disney execs, who think the same.

In my opinion, it would be better for Disney to go back to the drawing board and look at the Beastly Kingdom idea again.

 

[Timekeeper]

Idk if we should be basing avatarland at all on the actual movie. SURE they are making a land to do with avatar but I think its going to be more of a hands on experience of walking through Pandora(which is awesome) rather then going into a land and forced to watch a 2+ hour movie! Its not like in avatarland we are going to be forced to sit and watch it. I agree the movie was long but the visuals=best ive seen in a madeup world movie. I cant wait to see what they've come up with!

I completely agree. I see it more as an "inspired by" area rather than a "re-live the movie" area. And that's what will make it enjoyable for the widest audience possible.

Are are plenty of attractions, particularly at the Universal properties, that are based on movies. After all, "...ride the movies" was their slogan. And none of them are pure regurgitations of their film counterparts. There's no reason to expect Pandora to be any different. And in true Disney spirit, they'll try to keep it open to as wide of an audience as possible.

 

[unkadug]

I couldn't agree more. Disney should pretend like this idiotic idea never existed and I doubt the average park goer would even notice.

Stranger things HAVE happened in the past.

 

[BUZZCRUSH]

Avatar's Worldwide Box Office: $2,782,275,172...I don't think it's just Disney brass.

I think most people went to see it because of the new technology in special effects. Now that's "old news" the story itself doesn't seem to have enough staying power to warrant an attraction. None of the characters are very interesting to me either. How many kids dressed up as Avatars that halloween?

 

[alissafalco]

I think most people went to see it because of the new technology in special effects. Now that's "old news" the story itself doesn't seem to have enough staying power to warrant an attraction. None of the characters are very interesting to me either. How many kids dressed up as Avatars that halloween?

I totally agree..Avatar is old news, I dont know what Disney is thinking by building a whole Avatar section. Even if they come out with a part 2 for the film it maybe hot for a little while but will soon die down as the first one did...I dont even remember the characters names in the film

 

[steamboat wil]

i really liked avatar and i think it would make a good land. but not associated with disney. it would seem too much like 6 flags. i love the disney parks because of the original ideas. not so much anymore. they have dumbed down everything so much even my wife (who isnt a die hard like me) notices. subtle things like "lets not do the dining plan because the fun dessert part has slowly changed into 3 choices" has made me realize the lack of attention wdw gets. in all aspects. if disney would just re-open the idea of beastlie kingdome or something else that is an original idea it would probably blow WWOHP out of the water. what happened? i mean c'mom do we have to lower ourselves to avatar and other commercialized properties or could they bust out a new "pirates" or "haunted mansion". even splash mountain came out of nowhere. where are the garunteed good attractions that are excellent even when a box office number isnt behind it. i miss the good disney!

 

[NoChesterHester]

So if Avatar doesn't happen do any of the naysayers believe that Animal Kingdom will miraculously get some other expansion?

My feeling is that we would be walking the same park in five years wondering if they are EVER going to add anything of substance still longing for Beastly Kingdom or Mysterious Island...

 

[haveyoumetmark]

To speak to the point of the thread, I don't think the delays will have any lasting effect on the construction of the land. Though I think the land itself will be a bizarre disaster, it has the potential to be a huge success - depending on the success of the last two films and what effects they have on the reputation of the franchise.

 

[flavious27]

Meh, they get made they get made, they don't they don't.

 

[disney fan 13]

This is sort off topic of the thread itself. But after doing some research the 1bil in movie sales Acatar got amounted to a 18 mil blu ray sales total. While star wars broke blu ray records with almost 80mil in profit making it the most sold thing off blue ray.... Just sayin....

 

[ctxak98]

OK I also dont believe what wearing a halloween costume has anything to do with whether the ride will be a hit or not? Anyways, to me people say avatar isnt "hot" or its "old news" then what should Disney do? what other movie as of recent years is making a true comeback!? because they already did there starwars refurb so.....IDK I think avatar is perfect. Nothing is going to be as popular as harry potter. I just dont understand what people want anymore. :shrug: