Attendence falls at WDW per lastest earnings release...

[Clever Name]

Exactly, I for one noticed several things at the Wilderness Lodge this October that in years past would have not been allowed. Things like trash, (not a little a lot, which is nothing more than a useless guest being lazy) in Silver Creek Falls, as well as a large buildup of brown scum (like waste water) it was like it on day one of our trip and still like it at checkout on day nine. A missing lantern on the post with exposed wiring hanging out, and a couple of burned out bulbs on the dock that were not fixed the entire time. No background music from the bus stop to the side entrance (they fixed this our second to last day). I realize technical difficulties do happen, however they should be addressed and fixed in a timely manner, Disney of the past would not let show elements like this suffer, the Disney of the present does, and I worry the Disney of the future will continue to slip backwards if things do not turn around.

Some of you may remember John Hornbuckle and/or the website he created called Walt Disney World Blues. The site ran on the web during the late 1990’s and early 2000’s. It was dedicated to highlighting the poor maintenance that was becoming apparent at WDW. John would post pictures of various imperfections at WDW that were the result of poor maintenance. Burnt out lights, peeling paint, torn seats, ripped carpet, over flowing trash cans, closed attractions and other examples of general disrepair were common photos on his site.

Back then, I used to think that John was just being nitpicky. During my visits to WDW, I rarely saw any evidence of poor maintenance or lack of custodial upkeep. However, it has become obvious to me during the last decade that WDW cleanliness standards and general maintenance have diminished. There are a lot of reasons for the lower quality. Staff reductions play a big role and the minimum CM hiring standards have been lowered to the point that allows aberrant and deviant people to be regularly hired for work involving direct public contact.

Clearly, the problems directly rest with poor management. I don’t think it’s coincidental that these problems began to surface at the exact same time that Bob Iger became president of Walt Disney International in 1999. The problems have only become worse as he has assumed more responsibility in the company. Let’s hope the stockholders are happy with his performance because the park visitors and resort guests are not pleased at all.

 

[lightning509s]

This link pretty well sums up the difficulties facing WDW...Long Blog but very insightful:

http://www.studioscentral.com/column/studios-weekly/big-problems-walt-disney-world

 

[Mick G.]

Personally, we are probably going to delay our next trip to WDW because of the overdue updates and expansion currently in the works. Why go now, when we can wait a few months and at least have a new Star Tours to ride? Wait a little longer and we can see the first phase of Fantasyland.

I'm hoping that once DCA is fixed, WDW's other parks will get attention.

Mick

 

[kennygman]

I don't understand why the attendance has dropped off. After all, Uni offered one of the most successful children's book and movie franchises in history and WDW countered with Duffy. C'mon people go to WDW!

 

[puntagordabob]

Let me first say WDW is my local park and I love it dearly....but having just been to WDW and Disneyland back to back (same day even lol) I can say Disneyland DESERVES the recognition.... Walt Disney's Enchanted Tiki Room vs WDW's UNM, Holiday overlays for Haunted Mansion and iasw,etc..., World of Color, lots of unique merchandise, Main Street USA is full of unique shops, Downtown Disney Anaheim is full of activity after dark, dances with live bands (classic music) in Disneyland park, Davy Crocket's Canoes (priceless to canoe at the Rivers of America IMHO!), Disneyland's Toontown, Halloween decorations were EVERYWHERE not just on Main Street, etc....

This is evidence (the report on earnings) that Disneyland is pulling in more than "just locals"....when i was there I noticed a lot of europeans, asians, austrailians, and a lot of non-Cali people.... lol I was one of them.... and being a Florida resident I suppose my dollars in this instance was subtracted from WDW and handed to DL....

The style of management of TDA versus TDO really amazes me since they are both Disney!!! ...But the evidence is there for even a chucklehead like me to see

 

[20009551sc]

Attendance issues I think are going to be here for a while. The new economy and the unemployment rates have seen to that. The NFL is suffering fromthe same problem as team after team has their games blacked out due to poor ticket sales. Money is the root of all evils. If you have it you can do things you want to. Don't have it then you have less choices on where and how it gets spent. WDW is a big city with big city problems. Over crowded roads and a transportation system that is stretched to its capacity. Like the cities they have had cut backs in staff resulting in worse maintenance and other problems too. I know Disney is International now but wish they were not. Instead of building parks in China, funnel some money here to the states and modernize and update what they have already. Must we outsource everything including Disney!

 

[kapeman]

Attendance issues I think are going to be here for a while. The new economy and the unemployment rates have seen to that.

Yes, but the attendance numbers at Disneyland are UP.

The issue is why doesn't WDW show similar numbers and I think Puntagordabob encapsulated it nicely.

 

[puntagordabob]

Yes, but the attendance numbers at Disneyland are UP.

The issue is why doesn't WDW show similar numbers and I think Puntagordabob encapsulated it nicely.

Yep... and if we as a WDW fan community get our "ears in gear" like the Disneyland fan community did some years back, we can perhaps make a small contribution in helping TDO making their $$$numbers$$$ go up up and away... some ideas on these boards are crazy to some, and perhaps they are....but then again so many of us adults going CrAzY when we see Mickey and the gang in person even though we know its not real is a little crazy....so in a sense Disney exists to make us all cazy, no? The truth is that I think TDA has been thinking outside the box that they had in place in the early to mid 90s....and now in the face of the winds of the extreme negative economic times they are prospering. Maybe the dances at Disneyland takes up valuable space and makes no money today....same with the Holiday overlays....same with keeping Walt Disney's Enchanted Tiki Room (Tropical Serenade)...Canoe rides...etc... but over time the cumulative effect is positive.

When I was at Disneyland for example I actually seeked out the Canoe ride... or how about this: My wife and I were in front row positions for the Remember Dreams Come true fireworks ( :sohappy: has the Jose from the Tiki Room in it, how cool is that? :sohappy: ) and I seriously came close to pulling my wife out of our spot to go to the dance in the pavillion to the left of Sleeping Beauty's Castle and I do not even dance!! It is the little things that bring the experience to life....these "Plusses" as the Imagineers say are IMHO the reason we come back.... Hitting a ride or something is awesome dont get me wrong... but when I am older Ill likely revere my time on the Rivers of America paddling in a canoe past the Columbia an at perhaps even more so....

Don't get me wrong, there are a bunch of experiences at WDW that are awesome....but like the Lights of Winter it seems at times these experiences are flickering to the off position in a frightening succession. I am not one of the Big Crusaders regarding the LoW, but my opinion on it is that it set the stage for all of us as we entered World Showcase....the big theory a lot of you have is that the accountants said it wasnt making money so they axed it,which seems plausible on paper. BUT consider this: LoW as you enter WS puts you in the Spirit of the Holidays, and we consumers LOVE to spend $$$ for the holidays... I wonder how much of an Opportunity cost TDO lost in Christmas Gift sales vs last year without LoW? We will NEVER know, but I would bet REAL MONEY that they took a sales hit...EPCOT was really depressing vs MK.

WHY did I point the LoW out??? It is one of the little Plusses just like the Dances and Canoe rides at Disneyland....Plusses may not always(probably USUALLY DO NOT I would dare to guess.. ) show profits on paper, and I firmly believe Walt Disney understood this in his days on this world.... and apparently a lesson TDA has re-learned... during this Holiday Season my Wish & Prayer would be that TDO will as well. I also wish that so many of the personal attacks against TDO would cease by our community (here and on all the other WDW forums), we need to help inspire them NOT attack them... we all want the same thing: for WDW to be the first place people think of when they want their daily sorrow to turn to a smile....

 

[cheezbat]

As somebody who has visited the parks many many times over the past few decades, I really have seen a decline in upkeep in the parks, as well as the lack of new offerings in the past few years.

This year WDW lost my money. I went back to Disneyland Resort and spent tons over there.
Universal has also gotten my money. Regardless of Potter being a rethemed land with only one NEW ride, it's still a great experience, and the ride itself is one of the best on the planet. They're already planning the expansion.
So DCA is getting a MASSIVE overhaul, which will definitely bring me back there, And Universal has plans for more additions, so I'll definitely be going back there...

Aside from Fantasyland Expansion, what else is WDW going to bring in the near future to get me back?
They have to do something with Animal Kingdom. It's such a beautiful park with so much potential, with hardly anything to do. And Studios? That's another one that needs some massive work to fix it up. In all honesty, the only park in the WDW resort I feel good about is Epcot. That's a solid park.

 

[fosse76]

This link pretty well sums up the difficulties facing WDW...Long Blog but very insightful:

http://www.studioscentral.com/column/studios-weekly/big-problems-walt-disney-world

How do you outsource an attraction?

 

[roadtripper]

If Disney can make just as much money without offering all the discounts, hire less employees, have less people in the park to clean up after, etc., maybe that's what they're thinking right now. Labor has to be a huge cost and they might be testing those waters briefly.

 

[pax_65]

If Disney can make just as much money without offering all the discounts, hire less employees, have less people in the park to clean up after, etc., maybe that's what they're thinking right now. Labor has to be a huge cost and they might be testing those waters briefly.

The Disney business model should be this: provide a higher quality product, charge a higher price, reinvest a % back into the product to make it even better, build customer loyalty.

NOT this: cheapen the product to save costs, offer incentives like free dining to encourage guests, put as little back into the product as possible to save costs, offer discounts to pad attendance figures, lose customer loyalty.

 

[Mr Bill]

How do you outsource an attraction?

By hiring an outside company to design it for you

 

[scottnj1966]

The declines could not been very noticable on paper since I have not seen the parks slow down yet. It's been a very busy time at WDW all year.

 

[HMF]

Disney stock closed up over 5% today.
That's a MASSIVE one day move for a megacap like Disney.
Especially considering it's recent upward climb.

Fanboys may not approve of Disney Management, but stockholders like myself are pretty stoked.

Keep it up IGER!!!:sohappy:

You really trust the criminals on Wall Street?

 

[lebeau]

Purely annecdotal evidence, but my sister took her family to Orlando in August. They went to Sea World, Universal and Epcot for 1 day each. Universal was packed. Epcot was fairly empty. No significant waits except for Soarin' which was about an hour. Everything else was less than 20 minutes. Even Test Track.

Anyway, my sister tells me that several cast members at Epcot told her that they had been slow all summer long due to Harry Potter.

I know, I know. Cast members say the darndest things. Take it for what it's worth.

 

[Tigger1988]

Anyway, my sister tells me that several cast members at Epcot told her that they had been slow all summer long due to Harry Potter.

I know, I know. Cast members say the darndest things. Take it for what it's worth.

I must have picked the magical 5 day period in July/August where the parks were packed beyond belief then.

 

[SeaCastle]

Disney stock closed up over 5% today.
That's a MASSIVE one day move for a megacap like Disney.
Especially considering it's recent upward climb.

Fanboys may not approve of Disney Management, but stockholders like myself are pretty stoked.

Keep it up IGER!!!:sohappy:

Perhaps it's Iger's priority to appease Wall Street rather than park guests. So while our Lights of Winter are cut for the second year in a row, we're in our third straight year of nothing new being added to the parks, with prices increasing and value dropping, it becomes a bit obvious as to who the Company thinks is more important...its shareholders or its customers. (And when Wall Street is happy, who really cares about the consumer?)

I would hope that by "shareholders" you're not referring to the fanboys who own one share of stock that's hung up on the wall. While by technicality I am a "shareholder", I only own one piece of stock and I'm virtually incapable of making any impact on Disney by selling my piece of stock.

 

[fosse76]

Perhaps it's Iger's priority to appease Wall Street rather than park guests. So while our Lights of Winter are cut for the second year in a row, we're in our third straight year of nothing new being added to the parks, with prices increasing and value dropping, it becomes a bit obvious as to who the Company thinks is more important...its shareholders or its customers. (And when Wall Street is happy, who really cares about the consumer?)

That seems to be the real problem with companies these days. They want an almost instant return on their investment. Look at movies: if the movie doesn't make its budget back on opening weekend it's practically considered a flop. There doesn't seem to be much difference with WDW. If they can't increase the profit from the previous year when they want to make a capital investment on the property, they simply won't make the investment. Any decrease in profits is rated poorly on Wall Street without consideration of the reason, which in the long run is bad for the consumer.

I would hope that by "shareholders" you're not referring to the fanboys who own one share of stock that's hung up on the wall. While by technicality I am a "shareholder", I only own one piece of stock and I'm virtually incapable of making any impact on Disney by selling my piece of stock.

I own about 20 shares myself, and as long as the price is at or more than what I paid, I am content.

 

[Clever Name]

That seems to be the real problem with companies these days. They want an almost instant return on their investment. Look at movies: if the movie doesn't make its budget back on opening weekend it's practically considered a flop. There doesn't seem to be much difference with WDW. If they can't increase the profit from the previous year when they want to make a capital investment on the property, they simply won't make the investment. Any decrease in profits is rated poorly on Wall Street without consideration of the reason, which in the long run is bad for the consumer.



I own about 20 shares myself, and as long as the price is at or more than what I paid, I am content.

As you can see, Disney stock has been almost flat during the past decade since Iger first started with the company. If he doesn't get the hang of things, watch the stock drop like a rock in the next few years.

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