Attendance drop in the parks... I wonder why

[Goofyernmost]

I'm always curious when I read something like this. Have you been to WDW before FP ever existed? If so- do you want to return to that time--but now with thousands more people than there was back then?

I did and yes I do wish to go back. The worst thing that ever happened to WDW was Fastpass old and new. The crowds may or may not be gigantically larger now then back then considering that my early trips involved only two parks, one that had just opened. Did we have to wait in line for most rides? Yes, indeed we did. Were we all upset about that? Not even a little. Why? Because we kept on moving. Our biggest frustration were people that weren't paying attention and would let a large gap open up, and watching people cut under the switch backs in front of them. But, that didn't happen that often. We didn't stand in one spot for minutes on end, not moving, watching people walk up past us and legally cut in front and there was nothing that we could do to prevent it. Each ride had the same capacity, then, as it does today. That means that if it's 1000 per hour, only 1000 per hour will be able to ride, fastpass or no fastpass. Same number. First in line were the first to get to ride and when you got to the ride YOU WERE NEXT, no last minute groups coming up the FP line to get on ahead of you. If you came to a queue that was to large you went by it and came back later when it wasn't as busy. You got to see everything you didn't have to wander back and forth across the park getting to your ride window, pulling out your hair trying to see if your ADR (didn't exist) lined up with your Fastpass time. No planning ahead 6 months trying to decide what you wanted to eat 180 days away. You know all those dining places that are closed in both MK and Epcot? They were open and busy, but, you could go in there anytime and get your meal, easily find a place to sit and continue on after.

When you stood in standby line there was no anger. (there also was no other line) There was a lot of joking about how much time we spent in line, but, it was all a memorable part of the theme park experience. We stopped and smelled the roses. The queues were detailed for the most part, and we got the chance to see them, not run through at warp speed to get to the FP load area. Instead of experiencing a ride, we experienced an attraction. It was fun, we talked and joked with strangers in line with us and time seemed to fly by. The story was set up by the queue, we didn't have to rely on the "movie" to let us know what we were seeing. It didn't matter, it was a story that could have been made up as they designed the attraction or it might have been part of a movie. It didn't matter, we still could enjoy it for itself and not compare it to other things that couldn't possibly be replicated in a 10 minute ride no matter how good they were.

In short, as I said earlier, the same number of people could experience a ride per day then or now whether or not the crowds were bigger. Still going to be the same number riding. Before it was completely fair... first come, first served and you could determine how much time you needed to experience things. Now it is all up to chance and if you have already stood in line for an hour, you aren't likely to quit and walk away from it, you stay and wait it out. It was a system that sounded good on paper, but, sucked for everyone that couldn't get a FP. (Which, I don't care what people say, is the majority.) If the Fastpass line had the majority that would be as long as the standby line currently is. If before FP, the line had a 40 minute wait, everyone had a 40 minute wait if they chose to ride at that time. With FP, one line can mostly just walk up and get on, leaving other to have a fluctuation wait time of up to 3 hours in some cases. I hate Fastpass. I hate that I have to use Fastpass now or I cannot get to see enough to make it worth my while. I hate having to figure out days in advance what time I have to be at a chosen attraction. It has singularly caused more "magic" to be eliminated then any other thing that they have done. Up-charges, extras, higher cost for snacks are all things that we can independently decide if we want to pay or use, based on our own priorities. Since a theme park is primarily a place where people go to see attractions if we chose not to see some because it "takes to long" we might as well stay home, because that is what it is all about.

 

[RobidaFlats]

I did and yes I do wish to go back. The worst thing that ever happened to WDW was Fastpass old and new. The crowds may or may not be gigantically larger now then back then considering that my early trips involved only two parks, one that had just opened. Did we have to wait in line for most rides? Yes, indeed we did. Were we all upset about that? Not even a little. Why? Because we kept on moving. Our biggest frustration were people that weren't paying attention and would let a large gap open up, and watching people cut under the switch backs in front of them. But, that didn't happen that often. We didn't stand in one spot for minutes on end, not moving, watching people walk up past us and legally cut in front and there was nothing that we could do to prevent it. Each ride had the same capacity, then, as it does today. That means that if it's 1000 per hour, only 1000 per hour will be able to ride, fastpass or no fastpass. Same number. First in line were the first to get to ride and when you got to the ride YOU WERE NEXT, no last minute groups coming up the FP line to get on ahead of you. If you came to a queue that was to large you went by it and came back later when it wasn't as busy. You got to see everything you didn't have to wander back and forth across the park getting to your ride window, pulling out your hair trying to see if your ADR (didn't exist) lined up with your Fastpass time. No planning ahead 6 months trying to decide what you wanted to eat 180 days away. You know all those dining places that are closed in both MK and Epcot? They were open and busy, but, you could go in there anytime and get your meal, easily find a place to sit and continue on after.

When you stood in standby line there was no anger. (there also was no other line) There was a lot of joking about how much time we spent in line, but, it was all a memorable part of the theme park experience. We stopped and smelled the roses. The queues were detailed for the most part, and we got the chance to see them, not run through at warp speed to get to the FP load area. Instead of experiencing a ride, we experienced an attraction. It was fun, we talked and joked with strangers in line with us and time seemed to fly by. The story was set up by the queue, we didn't have to rely on the "movie" to let us know what we were seeing. It didn't matter, it was a story that could have been made up as they designed the attraction or it might have been part of a movie. It didn't matter, we still could enjoy it for itself and not compare it to other things that couldn't possibly be replicated in a 10 minute ride no matter how good they were.

In short, as I said earlier, the same number of people could experience a ride per day then or now whether or not the crowds were bigger. Still going to be the same number riding. Before it was completely fair... first come, first served and you could determine how much time you needed to experience things. Now it is all up to chance and if you have already stood in line for an hour, you aren't likely to quit and walk away from it, you stay and wait it out. It was a system that sounded good on paper, but, sucked for everyone that couldn't get a FP. (Which, I don't care what people say, is the majority.) If the Fastpass line had the majority that would be as long as the standby line currently is. If before FP, the line had a 40 minute wait, everyone had a 40 minute wait if they chose to ride at that time. With FP, one line can mostly just walk up and get on, leaving other to have a fluctuation wait time of up to 3 hours in some cases. I hate Fastpass. I hate that I have to use Fastpass now or I cannot get to see enough to make it worth my while. I hate having to figure out days in advance what time I have to be at a chosen attraction. It has singularly caused more "magic" to be eliminated then any other thing that they have done. Up-charges, extras, higher cost for snacks are all things that we can independently decide if we want to pay or use, based on our own priorities. Since a theme park is primarily a place where people go to see attractions if we chose not to see some because it "takes to long" we might as well stay home, because that is what it is all about.

Dear Lord, it might be time to take me because I actually agree with this poster about something

I don't agree 100% with his reasoning, but by and large I concur with the sentiment. On the whole, I preferred a Fastpass-less system.

 

[Andrew C]

I don't agree 100% with his reasoning, but by and large I concur with the sentiment. On the whole, I preferred a Fastpass-less system.

I would be totally fine with FP going away for everyone. Although, I will admit that I work the carp out of FP+ when I am in the parks.

 

[21stamps]

I did and yes I do wish to go back. The worst thing that ever happened to WDW was Fastpass old and new. The crowds may or may not be gigantically larger now then back then considering that my early trips involved only two parks, one that had just opened. Did we have to wait in line for most rides? Yes, indeed we did. Were we all upset about that? Not even a little. Why? Because we kept on moving. Our biggest frustration were people that weren't paying attention and would let a large gap open up, and watching people cut under the switch backs in front of them. But, that didn't happen that often. We didn't stand in one spot for minutes on end, not moving, watching people walk up past us and legally cut in front and there was nothing that we could do to prevent it. Each ride had the same capacity, then, as it does today. That means that if it's 1000 per hour, only 1000 per hour will be able to ride, fastpass or no fastpass. Same number. First in line were the first to get to ride and when you got to the ride YOU WERE NEXT, no last minute groups coming up the FP line to get on ahead of you. If you came to a queue that was to large you went by it and came back later when it wasn't as busy. You got to see everything you didn't have to wander back and forth across the park getting to your ride window, pulling out your hair trying to see if your ADR (didn't exist) lined up with your Fastpass time. No planning ahead 6 months trying to decide what you wanted to eat 180 days away. You know all those dining places that are closed in both MK and Epcot? They were open and busy, but, you could go in there anytime and get your meal, easily find a place to sit and continue on after.

When you stood in standby line there was no anger. (there also was no other line) There was a lot of joking about how much time we spent in line, but, it was all a memorable part of the theme park experience. We stopped and smelled the roses. The queues were detailed for the most part, and we got the chance to see them, not run through at warp speed to get to the FP load area. Instead of experiencing a ride, we experienced an attraction. It was fun, we talked and joked with strangers in line with us and time seemed to fly by. The story was set up by the queue, we didn't have to rely on the "movie" to let us know what we were seeing. It didn't matter, it was a story that could have been made up as they designed the attraction or it might have been part of a movie. It didn't matter, we still could enjoy it for itself and not compare it to other things that couldn't possibly be replicated in a 10 minute ride no matter how good they were.

In short, as I said earlier, the same number of people could experience a ride per day then or now whether or not the crowds were bigger. Still going to be the same number riding. Before it was completely fair... first come, first served and you could determine how much time you needed to experience things. Now it is all up to chance and if you have already stood in line for an hour, you aren't likely to quit and walk away from it, you stay and wait it out. It was a system that sounded good on paper, but, sucked for everyone that couldn't get a FP. (Which, I don't care what people say, is the majority.) If the Fastpass line had the majority that would be as long as the standby line currently is. If before FP, the line had a 40 minute wait, everyone had a 40 minute wait if they chose to ride at that time. With FP, one line can mostly just walk up and get on, leaving other to have a fluctuation wait time of up to 3 hours in some cases. I hate Fastpass. I hate that I have to use Fastpass now or I cannot get to see enough to make it worth my while. I hate having to figure out days in advance what time I have to be at a chosen attraction. It has singularly caused more "magic" to be eliminated then any other thing that they have done. Up-charges, extras, higher cost for snacks are all things that we can independently decide if we want to pay or use, based on our own priorities. Since a theme park is primarily a place where people go to see attractions if we chose not to see some because it "takes to long" we might as well stay home, because that is what it is all about.

I can understand that. Here's my reasoning for liking the new system better, there are a few factors involved.

First let me address the original FP system. I HATED it. I have never been a rope drop fan. Especially not before I had a child, which is the majority of my visits.

We would arrive at MK late in the day, and most FPs were gone. We didn't bother running from one side of the park to the other to see if a different one was available. These were adult trips and I was somewhat ok with that. I took my niece and nephew, ages 3&6, in 2006. We arrived to MK around 11am. There were not many FPs. This was June and was miserable all around. Plus, it was my first experience being in charge of children all day in a place like that. We had fun, but I didn't do it again.

FP did not exist in any form during my childhood. My family went annually. I vividly remember waiting in long lines. Like you said though, it wasn't horrible, and I did enjoy the queues more than my son is able to now with FP lines. Even with that, I won't say that I thoroughly enjoyed the long lines. My grandmother was confined to a wheel chair in the early 90s and she came on a lot of those trips with us. Once she was in a wheel chair we were taken to the front of the line on several attractions, I remember that vividly as well. We were definitely able to do more during those times.

So fast forward to current times-
We are passholders to an amusement park. I refuse to go on a Saturday, and Sunday if I can help it, at all. Here's what we do- head to the park on weekdays or rainy weekends, check the app for wait times. Crisscross the park to the rides that have reasonable waits. Kiddo isn't tall enough for a few rides yet, but even in "Kiddie Land" the wait times can be over an hour. So, sometimes we only do 3-4 rides and leave. The difference there is that we can go back sometime over the next few days. Can't do that with Disney so I would be stuck waiting an hour or more. I absolutely will not go to Cedar Point without a Fastlane Pass, where the waits can be 2 hours or so. I can't justify it on a normal day at our park (unless friends are in town), like I said, I skip those attractions, but I can easily justify it if I'm driving 5 hours to CP, it's the only way to possibly ride all of the coasters in one (weekend)day.

The difference between when I was kid and now- We had no choice but to wait. And waited we did. For many things, not just rides. Now we live in an era of Fastlane Pass and Starbucks Pre Ordering. Chipotle and Jimmy Johns will have out food waiting upon arrival, Outback and Carrabas will run our food out to our car. Publix has valet parking. Amazon does same day delivery.

For better or worse "we" have changed. Tremendously. We want everything now.
I'm guilty. And I'd much rather wait 5-20minutes to go on a ride than wait 60-90-120 minutes.

 

[IanDLBZF]

We would arrive at MK late in the day, and most FPs were gone. We didn't bother running from one side of the park to the other to see if a different one was available. These were adult trips and I was somewhat ok with that. I took my niece and nephew, ages 3&6, in 2006. We arrived to MK around 11am. There were not many FPs. This was June and was miserable all around. Plus, it was my first experience being in charge of children all day in a place like that. We had fun, but I didn't do it again.

And I am in the same boat as well! I hated the original FP system too.

 

[RobidaFlats]

I would be totally fine with FP going away for everyone. Although, I will admit that I work the carp out of FP+ when I am in the parks.

Me too. There's no reason not to play by the rules of the game, even if you would prefer that the rules were different.

 

[pax_65]

I'm always curious when I read something like this. Have you been to WDW before FP ever existed? If so- do you want to return to that time--but now with thousands more people than there was back then?

Yes... and I preferred no FP to what we have now. We visited WDW at less busy times of the year, so we didn't experience huge lines. Plus we did the rope drop so we were able to get a lot done early - and then do the less popular attractions when the park filled up.

Unlike some of the others here, I actually liked paper FPs. Because we were in the park early, we'd grab FPs for whatever we weren't doing first. As the crowds started to form we had FPs in hand for whatever we wanted to do next. It worked well for us. But we hustled a bit to make it work.

Again, I dislike FP+ because there's no spontaneity - everything requires advanced planning, and because the standby lines no longer move. I don't understand exactly why the standby lines don't move. My guess is that they give out more FPs now than they did with the paper system. I think there's some human psychology at work here too. If you have a Mine Train FP for 9am on your phone, that has value (especially since doing that attraction without a FP is horrible, and you probably can't get another FP so close to when you want to ride it). So you're gonna get your butt out of bed and go redeem your FP. I think back in the day more people slept in since they could always get a FP once they got into the park (at least in theory).

I also think more of the paper FPs went unused. People would run around grabbing them and then not make it back in time and would just move on (not realizing you could usually use the FP anytime after your return time, at least for many years you could).

These days it seems that a half-hour after opening the standby lines at the popular attractions are already PACKED. Heck, even some of the not-so-popular attractions have long standby waits.

 

[21stamps]

Yes... and I preferred no FP to what we have now. We visited WDW at less busy times of the year, so we didn't experience huge lines. Plus we did the rope drop so we were able to get a lot done early - and then do the less popular attractions when the park filled up.

Unlike some of the others here, I actually liked paper FPs. Because we were in the park early, we'd grab FPs for whatever we weren't doing first. As the crowds started to form we had FPs in hand for whatever we wanted to do next. It worked well for us. But we hustled a bit to make it work.

Again, I dislike FP+ because there's no spontaneity - everything requires advanced planning, and because the standby lines no longer move. I don't understand exactly why the standby lines don't move. My guess is that they give out more FPs now than they did with the paper system. I think there's some human psychology at work here too. If you have a Mine Train FP for 9am on your phone, that has value (especially since doing that attraction without a FP is horrible, and you probably can't get another FP so close to when you want to ride it). So you're gonna get your butt out of bed and go redeem your FP. I think back in the day more people slept in since they could always get a FP once they got into the park (at least in theory).

I also think more of the paper FPs went unused. People would run around grabbing them and then not make it back in time and would just move on (not realizing you could usually use the FP anytime after your return time, at least for many years you could).

These days it seems that a half-hour after opening the standby lines at the popular attractions are already PACKED. Heck, even some of the not-so-popular attractions have long standby waits.

The bold portion describes perfectly everything I hated about them.lol

Different strokes. To me, arriving to a park at opening and running around grabbing FPs is not spontaneity. It's the opposite of fun for me. I'd rather be able to do it from my phone.

I understand that others may enjoy that way better though. It just never worked for the way I went to the park.

 

[L.C. Clench]

We never went at the peak of summer crowds but my wife has never made rope drop for anything. I was lucky if she was out of the shower by the time the parks opened much less running around for paper FP and I don't recall a single time when FP wasn't available when we got to the parks. Sure the times were for later but since we got there later it was no big deal. The big thing was we were able to decide what park to go to when the bus was pulling up rather than trying to guess how the weather would be and where we'd want to be 60 days out.

The scheduling is simply Disney's way at trying to ensure they are staffed as low as possible and forcing people into multiple days through the tiering system. There is no such thing as spontaneity in today's Disney unless you are content with simply shopping, eating quick service and watching County Bears.

When they've developed a system where Journey Into Imagination can have a 45 minute wait you know something is wrong.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Dear Lord, it might be time to take me because I actually agree with this poster about something

I don't agree 100% with his reasoning, but by and large I concur with the sentiment. On the whole, I preferred a Fastpass-less system.

Glad to see you come over to the dark side. There's still hope left for the world.

 

[Goofyernmost]

I can understand that. Here's my reasoning for liking the new system better, there are a few factors involved.

First let me address the original FP system. I HATED it. I have never been a rope drop fan. Especially not before I had a child, which is the majority of my visits.

We would arrive at MK late in the day, and most FPs were gone. We didn't bother running from one side of the park to the other to see if a different one was available. These were adult trips and I was somewhat ok with that. I took my niece and nephew, ages 3&6, in 2006. We arrived to MK around 11am. There were not many FPs. This was June and was miserable all around. Plus, it was my first experience being in charge of children all day in a place like that. We had fun, but I didn't do it again.

FP did not exist in any form during my childhood. My family went annually. I vividly remember waiting in long lines. Like you said though, it wasn't horrible, and I did enjoy the queues more than my son is able to now with FP lines. Even with that, I won't say that I thoroughly enjoyed the long lines. My grandmother was confined to a wheel chair in the early 90s and she came on a lot of those trips with us. Once she was in a wheel chair we were taken to the front of the line on several attractions, I remember that vividly as well. We were definitely able to do more during those times.

So fast forward to current times-
We are passholders to an amusement park. I refuse to go on a Saturday, and Sunday if I can help it, at all. Here's what we do- head to the park on weekdays or rainy weekends, check the app for wait times. Crisscross the park to the rides that have reasonable waits. Kiddo isn't tall enough for a few rides yet, but even in "Kiddie Land" the wait times can be over an hour. So, sometimes we only do 3-4 rides and leave. The difference there is that we can go back sometime over the next few days. Can't do that with Disney so I would be stuck waiting an hour or more. I absolutely will not go to Cedar Point without a Fastlane Pass, where the waits can be 2 hours or so. I can't justify it on a normal day at our park (unless friends are in town), like I said, I skip those attractions, but I can easily justify it if I'm driving 5 hours to CP, it's the only way to possibly ride all of the coasters in one (weekend)day.

The difference between when I was kid and now- We had no choice but to wait. And waited we did. For many things, not just rides. Now we live in an era of Fastlane Pass and Starbucks Pre Ordering. Chipotle and Jimmy Johns will have out food waiting upon arrival, Outback and Carrabas will run our food out to our car. Publix has valet parking. Amazon does same day delivery.

For better or worse "we" have changed. Tremendously. We want everything now.
I'm guilty. And I'd much rather wait 5-20minutes to go on a ride than wait 60-90-120 minutes.

I will agree that FP+ is far superior to the original FP. There's no doubt about it, life today is on a fasttrack. That doesn't mean that our recreation should be as well. When do we relax and enjoy ourselves. I'll be honest here, it was a long time ago, but, I do not remember ever waiting in line over 40 minutes, pre-FP, and that was Peter Pan and it had operational issues twice during the wait in line. Short ones, but, stops nontheless.

 

[Angel Ariel]

We never went at the peak of summer crowds but my wife has never made rope drop for anything. I was lucky if she was out of the shower by the time the parks opened much less running around for paper FP and I don't recall a single time when FP wasn't available when we got to the parks. Sure the times were for later but since we got there later it was no big deal. The big thing was we were able to decide what park to go to when the bus was pulling up rather than trying to guess how the weather would be and where we'd want to be 60 days out.

The scheduling is simply Disney's way at trying to ensure they are staffed as low as possible and forcing people into multiple days through the tiering system. There is no such thing as spontaneity in today's Disney unless you are content with simply shopping, eating quick service and watching County Bears.

When they've developed a system where Journey Into Imagination can have a 45 minute wait you know something is wrong.

We also rarely arrive at Rope Drop..and actually less so before we had DD. We never had an issue getting legacy FP in WDW or DLR. We easily picked up FPs, even for Thunder Mtn, in late afternoon/early evening. As you said, they might have been for later times, but when it was just the 2 of us we preferred to be night owls anyway so it wasn't a big deal. Even on our honeymoon trip, which was mid-July, we did not experience legacy FP running out early in the day.

Disneyland still has legacy FP, and we've gone there the past 2 years. The only rides that ran out "early" in the day (around 2-3p) were Radiator Springs Racers (which is normal for that ride since opening), and Tower of Terror in 2016 (due to the announcement of it closing and being rethemed. TOT did not have long lines and fast going FPs when we were there in 2015).

We've continued choosing Disneyland because of the ease of planning there compared to WDW. Now that they're doing this MaxPass thing, I'll be interested to see how it goes. I'm thankful it's not an advanced planning system, but I do expect it will make FPs run out sooner in the day, given that they're removing the boundary of having to physically go to the ride to get a FP. But at least they're still keeping the rest of the legacy FP rules.

 

[drizgirl]

I won't even try to pretend that I remember exact wait times as a child or teen. I just remember them being long. Same as most amusement parks though.

Life is on the fast track. The world has changed so drastically in the past few years. For myself, and my family, it carries into recreation as well.
Think about just little things, when we were kids we walked or rode our bike to a friend's house, Unannounced. Today our kid's have scheduled play dates. Organized sports start at age 3. Most of all I was shocked last year before my son started football- Age 5. A very new 5. 1 month before the first practice I receive an email from the head coach. Here's what the email contained- a page of positions and their definitions. Diagrams of positions. An "order" for us to go buy orange cones to practice the positions. As well as 4 basic plays to teach them. All before the first practice. And last, but not least- the practice schedule. 4 days per week 2.5 hours per day. Until the first game, then we cut back to 3 days per week. For a FIVE year old. The summer before kindergarten. There is not 1 week of the year where we don't have a minimum of 3 days of some sport, or camp, or clinic.
So outside of sports and play dates, what else has changed- indoor playgrounds, trampoline parks where we go for recreation. These also double as places to throw a Birthday Party that must be scheduled 8-16 weeks in advance depending on the venue.

"We" (a lot of families) are overscheduled. Completely. With work, with home, and with recreation. Even vacations, not just Disney ones.

I think, actually I know, that this is why my son loves our camping or winter cabin trips so much. These are the only times when we don't have somewhere that we are scheduled to be. That doesn't happen at home, or on any other vacation.

So maybe, for someone like me, Disney doesn't seem so crazy. I said earlier in this thread- I HATE DISNEY PLANNING!! I really do. But here's what I realized in 2016- the majority of the "stress" of my planning was self inflicted. I cancelled half of the reservations that we had, including 2 that I tried for months to get. I chose to hang out at the pool and play foozball and ping pong instead of one of those hard earned ADRs. Did I feel like my vacation was devalued because of that? No, quite the opposite. It was better as a result.
I shrugged off the fact that we couldn't get a Frozen FP, even though I desperately wanted one. I don't arrive disappointed bc we didn't get one.
Disney can be stressful, the advance planning can really get annoying, but most of it is bc we are stressing too much. FP+ is here to stay for now, so people can learn to use it to their advantage as much as possible. ADRs are important, but not as important or impossible as so many in the online community claim. It's not necessary to book a trip at 18 months out. And thanks to the hoarders- plenty of reservations become available the week before a trip.

So now that I've gone completely off track about just FP+.. I just want to say this. Life is about adapting. Learn to work FP to your advantage, realize that if you choose you can still wait in a Standby line, so it's not taking attractions away if you're willing to wait anyway.
Things won't always be exactly how we want, but we have to learn how to roll with how things are.

P.S. sorry about this 25 chapter novel.lol

TLDR.

Being overscheduled is a life choice.

 

[contrariwise]

"We" (a lot of families) are overscheduled. Completely. With work, with home, and with recreation. Even vacations, not just Disney ones.

Not everyone. Some people have a lot of time to post on message boards. How busy can their schedules be?

 

[Chef Mickey]

The "let people do what they want to" thing doesn't really work when you say people have to defend one day trips and they don't make any sense. The "savings" on tickets don't start getting good until day 4 and while I would agree a single day HS ticket doesn't seem like a good deal at the moment we've done multiple single day trips to MK and EPCOT for various reasons whether it's a stop before or after a cruise or even just wanting to go to F&W or F&G.

With the relative lack of anything new and repeatable it could be argued that going for more days just to save on tickets provides less value then just doing what you would like and moving on to another destination.

Just because I think people should do whatever they want doesn't mean I can't disagree with them or criticize them. It also doesn't mean they know what they are doing.

If you don't want to stay at least 4-5 days, you don't like Disney much.

 

[drizgirl]

If you don't want to stay at least 4-5 days, you don't like Disney much.

LOL.

 

[unarmedmusic]

maybe its just off season?

 

[L.C. Clench]

If you don't want to stay at least 4-5 days, you don't like Disney much.

Or it could simply be after 36 years of visits, and getting to see the amazing changes of the Disney Decade, the Iger Era of closures and limitations just reduced the amount of days needed.

 

[pax_65]

When they've developed a system where Journey Into Imagination can have a 45 minute wait you know something is wrong.

In Animal Kingdom on a normal Fall day (not Summer, Christmas week or any peak time), Kali River Rapids had a 130 minute wait. I didn't see the 1 at first and walked over to get in line. Then I literally stood there for a minute with my mouth hanging open.

I agree something is wrong. Some here don't see a problem. As someone pointed out, maybe it's good news for them. The lines are gradually getting shorter as more Disney fans leave disappointed and don't return as often.

 

[drizgirl]

In Animal Kingdom on a normal Fall day (not Summer, Christmas week or any peak time), Kali River Rapids had a 130 minute wait. I didn't see the 1 at first and walked over to get in line. Then I literally stood there for a minute with my mouth hanging open.

I agree something is wrong. Some here don't see a problem. As someone pointed out, maybe it's good news for them. The lines are gradually getting shorter as more Disney fans leave disappointed and don't return as often.

But people not returning does not guarantee that the lines will be shorter. Reports are that Disney is using all that data from MM+ to staff down in lower crowds, resulting in........ longer lines.