Attendance drop in the parks... I wonder why

[Ralphlaw]

This does seem to be the over arching theme. There are a couple obvious dangers with this line of thinking.

1. You want to charge ultra-premium prices, you better provide ultra-premium service.

2. Related to 1. If you do not provide amazing service, then your guest satisfaction numbers will drop. If that starts to happen, and you have already successfully culled the crowds, then your margin of error is razor thin. You want fewer guests, you better be damn sure to keep them happy and coming back.

True, but if the numbers drop, you start advertising, offer packages, or even drop basic prices in order to take advantage of that pent up demand. Voila, crowds will come back. I assume the surveys and research basically led to the conclusion that ridiculous crowds were the biggest turnoff to a Disney vacation. Response: Cull the crowds by raising prices. If the service and other etceteras take a backseat to the complaints about the crowds, the solution is obvious.

Plus, fewer people may enhance the service due to fewer people to serve. Fewer people, probably better service per person. Also, fewer Foxworthy people will probably make many others happier. Again, not to be a snob, but I got stuck standing next to a guy at a the galactic Star Wars fireworks show with breath and BO so bad that it turned my Diet Coke into the Beverly. He then raised his arms from his tank top, wafting outstanding levels of sweat, to video the whole thing and thus to block the view of a bunch of guests behind him. He was actually a friendly enough guy in a Tow Mater sort of way, but his manner of speech, his bad teeth, and other details quickly clued me in that Foxworthy could have made a few bucks off the guy. If a Disney surveyor had stopped me to ask what my biggest complaint about the park was at that point, the answer would have been both obvious and entertaining.

 

[Bandini]

I think FP+ is just one of those weird breaking points for some folks as the parks have gotten incrementally more popular and constantly busy. If you're willing to spend a few minutes deciding what rides you want to essentially walk onto, rather than collect paper FastPasses at the rides and return later on, then it's a breeze. If you equate any tiny amount of pre-planning with "work", well, Six Flags is an option!

I think that's
a critical difference of opinion. I consider making ride reservations a big hassle. It's not a tiny amount of pre-planning. Yes, it only takes a few minutes to book, but it's trying to decide where you want to be on a particular day at a particular time that requires the planning. Also, attendance is down. the parks may feel crowded because Disney is able to "right size " their staff. Everyday now feels like a 7.

 

[Laketravis]

I once went to WDW with a couple from northern Ohio who complained the whole time about the lack of big rollercoasters, their annoyance at having to "sit down at a restaurant at an amusement park" and how pricey the restaurants at World Showcase were, and how "Cedar Point is way more fun than this". I think that if your "ROI" for your vacation comes down to the number of coasters you can get on for your dollar, and you couldn't care less about the nostalgia & storytelling of Haunted Mansion or Pirates... well, have fun at Six Flags, because you're a much different person than I

Yeah, there's no shortage of people who will compare WDW to Six Flags like they are comparing Ruth's Chris to McDonalds. And many of them have never stepped foot in a Six Flags park. But you correctly pointed out that for a lot of people it is becoming an option.

 

[Otterhead]

Yeah, there's no shortage of people who will compare WDW to Six Flags like they are comparing Ruth's Chris to McDonalds. And many of them have never stepped foot in a Six Flags park. But you correctly pointed out that for a lot of people it is becoming an option.

Don't get me wrong, I very much enjoy Six Flags, Cedar Point, King's Island, Canobie Lake, and plenty of other amusement parks. But I would definitely put most of them in the "McDonalds" thrill-ride category versus WDW and Universal. Apples and oranges, really.

 

[Ralphlaw]

I think that's
a critical difference of opinion. I consider making ride reservations a big hassle. It's not a tiny amount of pre-planning. Yes, it only takes a few minutes to book, but it's trying to decide where you want to be on a particular day at a particular time that requires the planning. Also, attendance is down. the parks may feel crowded because Disney is able to "right size " their staff. Everyday now feels like a 7.

My wife's a planner, so she takes care of that. Plus we can change our plans if FPs aren't working out that day. I agree about the 7 thing, but I strongly suggest hitting the parks and going standby at the right times. To us, early morning and late night--with a midday nap, dip in the pool, and/or bike ride in between--are the best days. Frontierland and Adventureland at night are far better than the crowded times of the day. Those days end up being a 9 or 10 for us.

 

[Laketravis]

Don't get me wrong, I very much enjoy Six Flags, Cedar Point, King's Island, Canobie Lake, and plenty of other amusement parks. But I would definitely put most of them in the "McDonalds" thrill-ride category versus WDW and Universal. Apples and oranges, really.

Me too. It's hard for me to stay longer than an afternoon before I'm ready to leave (even though my kid could stay all day). But I've noticed that the quality of the CS food is on par with WDW, the prices are much less, and the newer attractions definitely have more emphasis on theme even if the IP they are based on isn't as strong. So for a family of four that's never been to WDW they could very possibly not perceive a difference.

I'd be curious if those parks experienced an increase in attendance during the period that WDW saw a decrease.

 

[21stamps]

I asked you to furnish proof that Disney was not losing business to Tauck or ABD or any other travel option, nothing else. You stated :


You didn't answer my question. Where's your proof ? ( see bolded)

I don't have the time to research it.
I'd say it would fall under the common sense category, just based on what we know about the country we live in, the economy, the price points of Disney, etc. I'm sure there are actual stats.. maybe when I have time I'll look into the numbers...I did state what I read in a Forbes article, that was a year or so ago I think, and it was "Americans" not specific to WDW.
Maybe the avg family who traveled to Disney now takes $12,15,20k+ vacations instead, due to the price increases? I'd wager that Isn't the case. Even without reading actual "proof".

I once went to WDW with a couple from northern Ohio who complained the whole time about the lack of big rollercoasters, their annoyance at having to "sit down at a restaurant at an amusement park" and how pricey the restaurants at World Showcase were, and how "Cedar Point is way more fun than this". I think that if your "ROI" for your vacation comes down to the number of coasters you can get on for your dollar, and you couldn't care less about the nostalgia & storytelling of Haunted Mansion or Pirates... well, have fun at Six Flags, because you're a much different person than I

Hey now, it doesn't have to be an either or!! We have Cedar Fair Platinum Passes, and we go to WDW. Cedar Fair parks are fun, their kid's area is great, wonderful coasters, awesome waterpark.
Like you said, Walt Disney World is more about the story telling. I love them both, for different reasons. We don't go to WDW for thrill rides, or compare the 2.

 

[IanDLBZF]

Overall, attractions throughout Central Florida, not just WDW, but also Universal and SeaWorld, experienced a dip in 2016 due to a number of factors.

• First, the Summer Olympics in Rio De Janeiro, Brazil resulted in the loss of South American attendance. Not just the Brazilian Tour Groups, but also the families and individuals who do not travel in a group. Top this off with the current economical and political situation in Brazil and it's like adding fuel to a fire.
• Second, the Zika Virus outbreak which created a HUGE concern for many health department officials.
• Lastly, the events that occurred throughout Central Florida (i.e. the Pulse Shooting and Gator Attack) probably caused a significant dip in WDW, Universal, and SeaWorld's attendance.

I'm not just saying that this is a WDW problem, it's a Central Florida problem too. Add onto SeaWorld's pain known as BlackFish!

 

[Laketravis]

I'd be curious if those parks experienced an increase in attendance during the period that WDW saw a decrease.

I think I found my answer (emphasis mine). This is from their 2015 annual report but the annual passes sold would be used in 2016:

"Attendance at Six Flags Entertainment (NYSE:SIX) and Cedar Fair (FUN) theme parks climbed in 2015, with increasing numbers of visitors buying season passes and spending more money inside the park to herald a positive outlook for 2016. Six Flags, the world’s biggest regional theme park company, said on Thursday attendance rose by 2.9 million visits to 28.6 million in 2015, with 56% of them either season pass holders or members. Revenue in the fourth quarter rose to $217.4 million from $183.7 million a year earlier, topping the Capital IQ consensus for $193 million. Net income was $0.02 per share compared with the Street’s prediction for a $0.11 per-share loss.

The so-called base of guests who have purchased a season pass or are in the Six Flags membership program rose 26% year-over-year, “in line with the company’s overall strategy to upsell guests to multi-visit passes,” Six Flags said in a statement on Thursday. “We are very well-positioned for the 2016 season” with the base increase, said Jim Reid-Anderson, chairman, president and CEO."

http://www.wallstreet.org/rising-th...2016-growth-for-cedar-fair-six-flags-nysesix/

 

[Otterhead]

So for a family of four that's never been to WDW they could very possibly not perceive a difference.

Absolutely, very true. And if mom and dad are 'coaster people', and have annual passes to a local spot, the sticker shock from WDW would be crazy. That said, I've got some friends who had only been to their local Six Flags and mocked me for spending money to go to WDW, until they went, and said "we had no idea! We thought this would be all cheesy Mickey-themed coasters and carny rides!" and now go every year or so.

Like you said, Walt Disney World is more about the story telling. I love them both, for different reasons.

Exactly! When I want a really awesome vacation with amazing food, storytelling, and more to do than I could pack in in a week, I go to WDW. When I want to ride some coasters, play pinball, and ride old-timey carny rides, I go to Canobie Lake, near me. Both are fun for totally different reasons. But I wouldn't spend a week at Canobie Lake or expect four-star cuisine

 

[Laketravis]

But I wouldn't spend a week at Canobie Lake or expect four-star cuisine

Me neither. But I could spend a week just 30 miles away in Boston and enjoy four-star cuisine and a trek or two to Martha's Vineyard and Nantucket. With just a day or two at Canobie Lake

 

[Aileen Marotta]

Any ideas, you go first

There are many, many reasons for the decrease in crowds at Disney World
1. YES, the spike in price for the tickets is a mayor concern. Not only they have raised the prices extremely high, but they also keep adding "NEW" types of tickets . For example: my husband and I have been purchasing annual passes for the last 15 years. On 2016 Disney came up with Premium Plus Annual Passes, we thought ok, Premium Plus must mean a all inclusive (theme parks, water parks, hopper, no blockouts), well it wasn't an all inclusive, it just meant hopper + no blockout dates. They increased the cost and changed the name, THAT'S ALL! When we made the observation to our cashier, she told us: oh! But now you guys get a separate entrance exclusive for Annual Pass Holders. Also Fl. Residents are not getting the same discounts as before, if a person is a Fl. Resident and wants to visit Disney anytime, they are recomended to purchase an Annual Pass instead of a Fl. Resident discount.
2. Disney keeps closing the parks for SPECIAL TICKETED EVENTS. NOT SO SCARY HALLOWEEN PARTY, STAR WARS EVENTS, MICKEY'S VERY MERRY CHRISTMAS all require a separate admission cost, and its not $10 per person.
3. Popular attractions are either on refurbishment or closed all together. Many Disney fans are emotionally invested in some of the rides. They want to see that special ride from their childhood and when they get to the parks, are not there anymore.
A large part of the attendance of Disney come from guests that have been there before, but are not regular visitors. In many cases, they haven't been back in years and some bring their children and grandkids to experience the same magic they saw years before, but when they arrive, its not there anymore. Its awful to experience deception at the HAPPIEST PLACE ON EARTH.
4. Disney's Vacation Club is taking no hostages. Every single hotel in the monorail route HAS a DVC. The less expensive of the three is The Contemporary Resort and the leveled an entire building to built The Bay Lake Tower. At this point, having a vacation at a Disney World Resort can only be afford by the wealthy. Even the All Star Resorts are now chaging 1/3 more for a room near the main building + they are offering a semi-suite with a kitchenette for the same price The Contemporary had for a garden view room 4 years ago.
5. The "cast members" (employees) are rudder than they used to be. Not so long ago ( I mean 5 years ago) "cast members" would go out of their way to please and help guests. *REMEMBER, I HAVE BEEN DOING THIS FOR THE LAST 17 YEARS; It seems once the credit card has been approved, they don't have to work for your likings. I used to complaint to people who asked me: are you visiting Universal Studios this year? I said, No! Universal Studios crowds and employees are not courteous. Now that is the case with most of Disney employees. My last trip was a month ago, I am a DVC Member, everytime we entered through the lobby someone would say "Welcome Home", on my last vacation, I only heard it once in 17 days.
6. Complete disregard for the DISABLED! I think this one is the one that really makes my blood boil. Disney used to have a caring way to accommodate disabled guests, but again, about 5 years ago, they stripped guests in need of special assistance. Now they implemented the My Disney App and the disabled fell through the cracks. They are handing out return times for whatever time the standby line time is. As if to un explicitly say, "hey you either do the stand by line or stit down and wait an hour and a half until everyone in the line is in". GEEZ, thanks! Isn't it bad enough that I'm in pain or sick or hurt? and still came to Disney so you cam treat me like dirt!
Anyway, there are many reasons for diminished attendance at Disney Parks, the ones I mentioned are just a few.

 

[21stamps]

There are many, many reasons for the decrease in crowds at Disney World
1. YES, the spike in price for the tickets is a mayor concern. Not only they have raised the prices extremely high, but they also keep adding "NEW" types of tickets . For example: my husband and I have been purchasing annual passes for the last 15 years. On 2016 Disney came up with Premium Plus Annual Passes, we thought ok, Premium Plus must mean a all inclusive (theme parks, water parks, hopper, no blockouts), well it wasn't an all inclusive, it just meant hopper + no blockout dates. They increased the cost and changed the name, THAT'S ALL! When we made the observation to our cashier, she told us: oh! But now you guys get a separate entrance exclusive for Annual Pass Holders. Also Fl. Residents are not getting the same discounts as before, if a person is a Fl. Resident and wants to visit Disney anytime, they are recomended to purchase an Annual Pass instead of a Fl. Resident discount.
2. Disney keeps closing the parks for SPECIAL TICKETED EVENTS. NOT SO SCARY HALLOWEEN PARTY, STAR WARS EVENTS, MICKEY'S VERY MERRY CHRISTMAS all require a separate admission cost, and its not $10 per person.
3. Popular attractions are either on refurbishment or closed all together. Many Disney fans are emotionally invested in some of the rides. They want to see that special ride from their childhood and when they get to the parks, are not there anymore.
A large part of the attendance of Disney come from guests that have been there before, but are not regular visitors. In many cases, they haven't been back in years and some bring their children and grandkids to experience the same magic they saw years before, but when they arrive, its not there anymore. Its awful to experience deception at the HAPPIEST PLACE ON EARTH.
4. Disney's Vacation Club is taking no hostages. Every single hotel in the monorail route HAS a DVC. The less expensive of the three is The Contemporary Resort and the leveled an entire building to built The Bay Lake Tower. At this point, having a vacation at a Disney World Resort can only be afford by the wealthy. Even the All Star Resorts are now chaging 1/3 more for a room near the main building + they are offering a semi-suite with a kitchenette for the same price The Contemporary had for a garden view room 4 years ago.
5. The "cast members" (employees) are rudder than they used to be. Not so long ago ( I mean 5 years ago) "cast members" would go out of their way to please and help guests. *REMEMBER, I HAVE BEEN DOING THIS FOR THE LAST 17 YEARS; It seems once the credit card has been approved, they don't have to work for your likings. I used to complaint to people who asked me: are you visiting Universal Studios this year? I said, No! Universal Studios crowds and employees are not courteous. Now that is the case with most of Disney employees. My last trip was a month ago, I am a DVC Member, everytime we entered through the lobby someone would say "Welcome Home", on my last vacation, I only heard it once in 17 days.
Anyway, there are many reasons for diminished attendance at Disney Parks, the ones I mentioned are just a few.

I bought a Premium Pass this year.. one thing to point out is the 20% merchandise and select restaurant discounts really added up! Plus I was able to get 30% off of our room for 5 nights..and didn't have to buy memory maker. The pass actually paid for itself on that 1 trip. I'm hoping to get a little more use out of it though!

Absolutely, very true. And if mom and dad are 'coaster people', and have annual passes to a local spot, the sticker shock from WDW would be crazy. That said, I've got some friends who had only been to their local Six Flags and mocked me for spending money to go to WDW, until they went, and said "we had no idea! We thought this would be all cheesy Mickey-themed coasters and carny rides!" and now go every year or so.

Exactly! When I want a really awesome vacation with amazing food, storytelling, and more to do than I could pack in in a week, I go to WDW. When I want to ride some coasters, play pinball, and ride old-timey carny rides, I go to Canobie Lake, near me. Both are fun for totally different reasons. But I wouldn't spend a week at Canobie Lake or expect four-star cuisine

I think if someone is strictly a thrill ride junkie, then WDW would "lose" in comparison, they don't have thrill rides that are similar to amusement parks. The atmosphere at WDW is what is so amazing though!!
My park app says that I visited 13 times in 2016..I can't speak for 6 Flags, but Cedar Point and KI have clean parks with decent entertainment. (And my favorite- Find My Car feature!!!!!)
I will admit that while people on wdwmagic are stalking RoL updates, I'm stalking our new GCI coaster that's opening in the Spring, trying to desperately figure out "What's in the Shed".lol.
In my group of friends and fam we all do Cedar Fair and WDW, bc like you said, an amusement park isn't really a great week long vacation.lol

 

[IanDLBZF]

I bought a Premium Pass this year.. one thing to point out is the 20% merchandise and select restaurant discounts really added up! Plus I was able to get 30% off of our room for 5 nights..and didn't have to buy memory maker. The pass actually paid for itself on that 1 trip. I'm hoping to get a little more use out of it though!

Agreed, the merchandise discount is WORTH IT. Nuff said. I am very impressed that they added new dining discounts as well, even to those restaurants that only had TIW discounts! Haven't looked into resort discounts, yet.

 

[drizgirl]

I don't have the time to research it.

Hmmmmm.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

Central Florida overall experienced a dip in 2016.

Orlando International Airport set a record this year for most passengers ever.

I'm not convinced all of Orlando was down.

 

[IanDLBZF]

Orlando International Airport set a record this year for most passengers ever.

Domestic or International? Or is this overall?

 

[Disneyhead'71]

Domestic or International? Or is this overall?

Overall.

 

[21stamps]

Agreed, the merchandise discount is WORTH IT. Nuff said. I am very impressed that they added new dining discounts as well, even to those restaurants that only had TIW discounts! Haven't looked into resort discounts, yet.

I cancelled the dining plan on the first 6 nights of my trip bc of it! Couldn't get out of the last 3
.
Anyway, I wish I would have actually added the discounts up, for example we ordered take out from GF Cafe 3 or 4 times, every time was a decent savings..Same with qs food at the pool bar and Captain Cooks.. almost everywhere that we ate, except for BOG, lounges, and room service, was 20% off. It was great!

Wanted to add- you also get 20% off on the shopparks app. I purchased quite a few Christmas presents by taking advantage of that!

 

[Minnie Mum]

I don't have the time to research it.

.... I'd wager that Isn't the case. Even without reading actual "proof".

You really should consider changing your username to Kelleyanne.
No facts.
Alternative facts.
Possible facts that you might have read sometime in the past...