Attendance drop in the parks... I wonder why

[Chef Mickey]

If that Mexican guy would just pull himself up by his boot straps, he's could take the whole family to WDW 3-4 times a year.

Oh, don't you worry...he's headed there. As I said, he's now part owner and what he's been doing is building a small biz. He will soon have multiple crews and probably make more than you. He already has been to Disney, BTW. You can actually make quite a bit of money doing manual labor if you know what you're doing.

I have another friend who used to cut lawns for a living and now he owns the company. Also not American by birth. He went to Disney with his family just last year.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

Oh, don't you worry...he's headed there. As I said, he's now part owner and what he's been doing is building a small biz. He will soon have multiple crews and probably make more than you. He already has been to Disney, BTW. You can actually make quite a bit of money doing manual labor if you know what you're doing.

I have another friend who used to cut lawns for a living and now he owns the company. Also not American by birth. He went to Disney with his family just last year.

You have no idea what I make.

 

[Chef Mickey]

By 'quality degree', you're not referring to history or the social sciences, right?

Economics is a social science....it measures and explains the phenomena being discussed in the last two pages - the middle class and how that is defined (including hallmarks like a yearly vacation), income inequality, social mobility, affordability (as a function of income and related to utility), normal goods and luxury goods (ie WDW vacation), pricing strategy and analysis, etc. Across countries (or other geographically defined areas). Economic geography can even explain the dearth of fresh produce options near WDW.

And the next time you see someone complaining about high prices at WDW, just chalk it up to 'diminishing marginal utility' - no cynical judgment or drama necessary. Quite often the complaints here are 1. a symptom of Disney implementing a pricing strategy to appeal to the 'luxury' consumer market (growing since the 2008 recession), vs. the middle-income 'normal' consumer market (that has historically been WDW's core demographic). 2. a reaction to paying more for the same product (or lesser, depending on one's perspective or frequency of visits.....consumers, especially tourists, tend to not like a downgrade in the experience if they are still paying as much as or more for it...they just go elsewhere).

A quality degree could be music, but it's more likely to be computer science, engineering, accounting, finance, business, or math.

 

[King Panda 77]

You have no idea what I make.

Spoiler: SARCASM

Big Macs ...

 

[Chef Mickey]

You have no idea what I make.

I don't. I was just acting hard because you were being snarky. My point is, he is already doing well and will be doing even better because he's on the "boot strap" path. He's only been here about 5-6 years and didn't speak much English when he came.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

I don't. I was just acting hard because you were being snarky. My point is, he is already doing well and will be doing even better because he's on the "boot strap" path. He's only been here about 5-6 years and didn't speak much English when he came.

I would like for you to come down to where I'm from and give a good pep talk to the folks there.

You'll probably get shot.

 

[Chef Mickey]

I hope your chosen field is in the financial industry. Specifically a financial advisor? Because that is some top notch advice. Why didn't I think of that? Guys. Everyone, gather round, I have some advice that's gonna melt your brain....

Get more money!!!! Spend less money!!!! Boom, problem solved. Checks payable to Dan the Man, Money Planner MD.

I'm not a financial planner, but I do know finance.

You know who made a career out of telling people to get their income up and spend less? Dave Ramsey.

I know it's crazy, but sometimes the best advice is the simplest. Finances are generally a math problem with very black and white answers. People don't like to hear it and it becomes a game of psychology when it's really just a math problem.

The 2nd richest man in the world doesn't use financial consultants on $40b deals. You know why? He has confidence in the simplicity of business. He reads the annual report, he decides if he likes the management, and he sets a price and buys the company. Investing is simple too and people like financial planners make it complicated so you think you have to pay them to tell you what to do.

99% of people cannot beat the market. Your best bet to retire rich is to shares in an ETF index fund every month at regular intervals until you die. You will literally beat 99% of the world including Wharton grads, the Wolf of Wallstreet...you know it. You're welcome. It's really that simple.

 

[Chef Mickey]

I would like for you to come down to where I'm from and give a good pep talk to the folks there.

You'll probably get shot.

LOL, I'm from one of the biggest gun wielding states in the US. Anyone who'd shoot someone for saying something is a murderer. We use guns to defend ourselves here, not shoot people we don't like.

 

[Chef Mickey]

I read this and thought I had your system down. I then read more of this informative thread and realized I was confused. Should I spend more money on produce? Should I buy processed food and sell it? Maybe I should make financial deals while waiting in queues? Anyway, can you put together a series of DVDs or infomercials that I can watch before purchasing your financial product? THANKS!!!

The comedy routine is pretty funny, but it's really that simple.

Income up, expenses down.

Not sure what's so ridiculous about advice people don't follow every day.

Are you arguing the advice is stupid because people don't have spending problems and literally can't get by despite only purchasing the essentials? You mean people don't spend money they don't have using a CC they can't pay in full monthly?

You mean people get up every day and go to work, pay taxes, and don't get entitlements? Everyone who can be employed is employed?

INCOME UP, EXPENSES DOWN. You're welcome.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

The comedy routine is pretty funny, but it's really that simple.

Income up, expenses down.

Not sure what's so ridiculous about advice people don't follow every day.

Are you arguing the advice is stupid because people don't have spending problems and literally can't get by despite only purchasing the essentials? You mean people don't spend money they don't have using a CC they can't pay in full monthly?

You mean people get up every day and go to work, pay taxes, and don't get entitlements? Everyone who can be employed is employed?

INCOME UP, EXPENSES DOWN. You're welcome.

That is a very conservative, and therefore simpleton viewpoint. And once again, your arrogance is stunning.

Oh, and Texas is like a garden party compared to where I'm from.

 

[Chef Mickey]

Nice. Here we go again beating up on the poor. It's totally classless. I think it stems from the working class who have come into new money -- but it's still a crabs in the barrel mentality to me.

The truly wealthy -- well, old money -- understands that in order for capitalism to endure -- the poor must be subsidized. These subsidies are otherwise known as concessions.

The biggest benefactors of welfare are corporations with Walmart and McDonalds being among the largest. Regardless of what idealism some of you have because you think you've made it.

There is not enough room at the top. We all can't be doctors and lawyers and millionaires. Somebody has to work these low waged jobs.

Prisons are a billion dollar industry. Someone has to fill these prisions -- being a convict or prisoner is an occupation - hence the preschool to prison pipeline.

But, the working poor, middle class and new money folk rather beat up on the poor mom getting fifty dollars for week in foods stamps like it's a luxury or something. It's disgusting to me.

Without the poor, Capitalism as we know it would buckle and there would be a Marie Antoinette style revolution.

So, instead of beating up on the poor, have some compassion -- volunteer and give back. They don't need your judgement and frankly you should be thanking them.

America's capitalism is ugly and trickle down economics have only benefited the uber wealthy not the upper classes.

Ideally, the Nordic countries model of capitalism would benefit everyone. And, this what we should be striving toward instead of kicking those who are already down.

Oh, and it is definitely more expensive to eat healthy. http://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/3/12/e004277.full?sid=820d6e1a-280e-47a6-b8c5-498bfa4657e3

Who "bashed" the poor? I volunteer and donate to causes that matter to me (outside the US).

Companies benefiting from welfare are just playing the game, because they can. People on welfare don't have the same benefit because welfare is all they have. It's not a living wage either but they have little incentive to get off welfare, so it becomes a lifestyle. This is proven time and time again. don't think companies should benefit from welfare either, but the laws have to change. Hate the game...not the player.

And your study found it's $1.50/day more expensive to heat "healthy." I don't even consider the study correct, but taking it at face value, the slight increase in cost is enormously outweighed by the health benefits they fail to mention.

Not sure how they came up with their study because a family of 4 can easily spend $40 at McDonald's. Again, taking it for what is it, eating healthier is only slightly more expensive with enormous upside.

Capitalism has its problems, but it's the best system by 100 miles. No sane person disagrees with it. Everything that is here is because of capitalism. It works. It needs tweaking, but it works. Look at the other economies trying other things. The US is THE greatest country because of capitalism. People benefit enormously from it every single day.

The sustainability of the redistribution of wealth like in Nordic countries only works if you have a limited number of people getting the help, or money dries up. Currently, 47% don't pay income tax...far too many to make redistribution of wealth feasible for a long period. More Americans need to work and we need to help those who really need it...not able bodied people too lazy to get up and work for a living.

All the nordic countries combined have 30m people, <10% of America. We have roughly 80m people who pay no federal income tax. You can't really compare the models (which are criticized too...no one thinks they are perfect either) to a country with different labor stats, welfare states, and ideas about what "help" means.

BTW, I know a lot of "old money" people who totally disagree with you. In fact, I'd argue new money is much more understanding of the poor's plight than old money. Old money is from banking and oil...some of the most republican you can ever know.

 

[Chef Mickey]

That is a very conservative, and therefore simpleton viewpoint. And once again, your arrogance is stunning.

Oh, and Texas is like a garden party compared to where I'm from.

Conservative views are by definition a "simpleton" approach? Ridiculous.

Texas is a great state.

 

[21stamps]

I appreciate you reading it thoroughly because I think the portion you quoted makes my standpoint pretty clear (I probably jumbled up too many other thoughts that made people hate me).

I wish I could like your post 100 times.

I have a friend from Mexico. You know what he does for a living? Roofing. In Texas. He is part owner of his company, but he actually does the work as well. He roofs 6 days/week and does some of the biz stuff on his "off" day. He hauls shingles up and down rich peoples' houses during 105 degree summer heat. He doesn't complain and says he's lucky to even have the opportunity to work. In Mexico, he said he'd probably be on the streets or tangled up in crime. How many Americans do you think would be lining up to roof in the Texas heat? I know that's anecdotal and I don't have the answer, but I know some people are more willing to work than others.

The only part I don't agree with is the "how many Americans..". I think the difference between coming from another country, especially certain ones, and being born here is this- if you left your home, family, and culture to come to the USA and fulfill a dream..more than likely you will do anything it takes to make that dream come true. Sometimes people fail and return "home", sometimes they return because they miss their culture and families..but a ton of them succeed. There are also plenty of natural born citizens who have just as much ambition though. Success doesn't always equal being in the 1%. Owning a home, taking a vacation, providing your children with good opportunities, the ability to spend time/money on hobbies that you enjoy, having a decent savings account, investing and planning for your eventual retirement, living comfortably in retirement- this is all "success". Everyone measures it differently.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

Conservative views are by definition a "simpleton" approach? Ridiculous.

Texas is a great state.

Simpleton isn't quite the right word. "Not nuanced" would be a better choice of words. And yes, Texas is a great state. Lots of money and plenty of easily accessible educational opportunities. I'm pretty sure that has led you to your black and white beliefs.

And I'm almost positive you've never been anyplace in America like where I come from.

 

[Chef Mickey]

The only part I don't agree with is the "how many Americans..". I think the difference between coming from another country, especially certain ones, and being born here is this- if you left your home, family, and culture to come to the USA and fulfill a dream..more than likely you will do anything it takes to make that dream come true. Sometimes people fail and return "home", sometimes they return because they miss their culture and families..but a ton of them succeed. There are also plenty of natural born citizens who have just as much ambition though. Success doesn't always equal being in the 1%. Owning a home, taking a vacation, providing your children with good opportunities, the ability to spend time/money on hobbies that you enjoy, having a decent savings account, investing and planning for your eventual retirement, living comfortably in retirement- this is all "success". Everyone measures it differently.

And you're right about that. Coming here with a dream will make you work harder, sure. I just wish some people born here realized how lucky they are, just to be born here.

 

[Chef Mickey]

Simpleton isn't quite the right word. "Not nuanced" would be a better choice of words. And yes, Texas is a great state. Lots of money and plenty of easily accessible educational opportunities. I'm pretty sure that has led you to your black and white beliefs.

And I'm almost positive you've never been anyplace in America like where I come from.

But I guarantee I've been places in the world much, much worse than where you come from (if you mean I've never seen a bad place in America).

 

[L.C. Clench]

For some reason the words of Mac Davis just seem to fit here perfectly

Oh Lord it's hard to be humble
When you're perfect in every way.
I can't wait
To look in the mirror.
Cause I get better looking each day.
To know me is to love me.
I must be a hell of a man.
Oh Lord It's hard to be humble,
But I'm doing the best that I can.

I used to have a girlfriend,
but I guess she just couldn't compete,
With all of these love-starved women,
Who keep cowering at my feet.
Oh I probably could find me another,
But I guess they're all in awe of me.
Who cares?
I never get lonesome.
Cause I treasure my own company.

Oh Lord it's hard to be humble
When you're perfect in every way.
I can't wait
To look in the mirror.
Cause I get better looking each day.
To know me is to love me.
I must be a hell of a man.
Oh Lord It's hard to be humble,
But I'm doing the best that I can.

I guess you could say I'm a loner.
A cowboy out lone, tough, and proud.
I could have lots of friends
If I wanted.
But then I wouldn't stand out from the crowd.
Some folks say that I'm egotistical.
Hell I don't even know what that means.
I guess it has something to do
With the way that I fill out my skin tight with jeans.

Oh Lord it's hard to be humble
When you're perfect in every way.
I can't wait
To look in the mirror.
Cause I get better looking each day.
To know me is to love me.
I must be a hell of a man.
Oh Lord It's hard to be humble,
But I'm doing the best that I can.

I'm doing the best that I can.

 

[xdan0920]

Conservative views are by definition a "simpleton" approach? Ridiculous.

Texas is a great state.

It also happens to be one of the cheapest places to live in the country. Low cost of living can really make a man feel successful.

edit to add....

At my current income level, I would live like an absolute king in Texas.

edit to add...

I'd have more investment properties then you too. If I lived in Texas.

edit to add....

I would never ever live in Texas.

 

[SorcererMC]

But they do complain about not being able to afford to go on any vacation.

Indeed. For the middle class it has become more difficult to take an annual vacation, due to increasing debt burdens, decreasing benefits and/or job/economic security, scheduling conflicts, competing priorities like retirement savings and higher education, etc. This is to say that there are structural reasons for a future decline in attendance growth...another reason for Disney to shift to capturing more revenue from fewer people, not simply to profit-max but as a strategy for future growth. That being said, one of the reasons for the increasing domestic attendance at the parks over the last 2 years is due to the economic recovery and people 'finally' being able to take a vacation.

 

[SorcererMC]

A quality degree could be music, but it's more likely to be computer science, engineering, accounting, finance, business, or math.

That was not the point of my post...but I will only point you to reliable data on the subject (so as to not contribute to thread derailment).