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Atheism v. Theism Debate

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WDW Insider

New Member
Original Poster
I'll be very succinct and stay pretty elementary in this first post as I'm not sure Pumbas will be up to the task, but if anyone else would like to hop in go for it.

The first law of thermodynamics states that energy can neither be created nor destroyed. This means that within our universe, one of the most basic tenants of physics is that energy levels across the universe as a cumulative amount are a constant. This does not have any exceptions or variables... thus meaning that because it is constant, the universe cannot generate energy nor lose energy; it can only be transferred. For this reason, we know that the universe cannot be self-generating. In order for the universe to be self-generated, we would have to throw out the first law of thermodynamics, which we know to be a constant and verifiably true.

So if the universe did not create itself, then perhaps it has existed in perpetuity... perhaps it has just always been? The problem with this idea is that it is mathematically impossible. If the universe has an infinite past, it is impossible for us to be in the present. In order to get to the present, we would have to cross an endless past... and making it to the present would mean we have an ended past. Therefore this option is not viable.

What does that leave us with? The universe must be generated / created by a third party creator. In other words, a force beyond or outside of our universe created our universe. Because anything beyond or outside of our universe is not a part of nature (everything within our universe), we know that this force is by definition supernatural. Thus, we can safely and verifiably conclude that a third party, supernatural force created our universe and everything in it.

Critique away,

WDW Insider
 

WDW Insider

New Member
Original Poster
This is science, not religion. I'm actually rather surprised that you would call the first law of thermodynamics and the mathematical possibility of an infinite past "religion."
 

Pumbas Nakasak

Heading for the great escape.
If God created the universe, then God existed before the universe did. Why did God create the universe at the time He did? Why not earlier, or later?

The problem of what caused God to create the Universe pretty much means that there were other things going on before God created the universe and this is a contradiction! So, it cannot be true that God created the Universe. It is also true that God cannot have created Time - in order for time to be created it must be finite, which of course it can't be, because the creation of time must have occurred before time, which is not possible.
 

EPCOT Explorer

New Member
This is science, not religion. I'm actually rather surprised that you would call the first law of thermodynamics and the mathematical possibility of an infinite past "religion."

I know, I agree.

But this is gonna end up offending someone who does not want their mind and beliefs to be challenged.

I would LOVE to get involved here, I rather enjoy philosophy.
 
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