APs getting screwed?

CohibaMan

Active Member
Original Poster
MK and AK have gotten rid of legacy paper FastPass and transitioned fully to FastPass+. I'm afraid that APs will not be joining in the "fun" anytime soon. Look at the number of FastPass+ kiosks that they have put in at MK. You don't have to be a genius to figure out that Disney has no intention of EVER giving off-site guests or APs MagicBands or access to make FastPass+ reservations in advance. And before anyone tries to chime in and claim that making day of FastPass+ selections is alright, no, it's not. If you can't make selections in advance like everyone else, than it's a complete joke.

Unless you are staying at a WDW resort, you will be getting bent over and screwed hard without vasoline, and you won't even get sweet nothings whispered in your ear!

I said previously that I was going to book a single night at a Value resort just to get bands for my entire family, but now as my High Blood Pressure has been ticking up I have started to reconsider that approach. Look, I love Disney. I wouldn't be an AP if I didn't. I also used to love the Publix that is closest to my house until the guy in the meat department was extremely rude to me. Guess what, now I drive an extra 1.5 miles to go to the next closest Publix because the other one ed me off. This is not the only example of places that I have added to the boycott list. If a person or place does not treat you right, then you don't go back! Disney works for me. I am the one that pays them for services. That means that I am always right, and that I am their boss.

Too bad they don't see it that way.
 

donsullivan

Premium Member
MK and AK have gotten rid of legacy paper FastPass and transitioned fully to FastPass+. I'm afraid that APs will not be joining in the "fun" anytime soon. Look at the number of FastPass+ kiosks that they have put in at MK. You don't have to be a genius to figure out that Disney has no intention of EVER giving off-site guests or APs MagicBands or access to make FastPass+ reservations in advance. And before anyone tries to chime in and claim that making day of FastPass+ selections is alright, no, it's not. If you can't make selections in advance like everyone else, than it's a complete joke.

Unless you are staying at a WDW resort, you will be getting bent over and screwed hard without vasoline, and you won't even get sweet nothings whispered in your ear!

I said previously that I was going to book a single night at a Value resort just to get bands for my entire family, but now as my High Blood Pressure has been ticking up I have started to reconsider that approach. Look, I love Disney. I wouldn't be an AP if I didn't. I also used to love the Publix that is closest to my house until the guy in the meat department was extremely rude to me. Guess what, now I drive an extra 1.5 miles to go to the next closest Publix because the other one ed me off. This is not the only example of places that I have added to the boycott list. If a person or place does not treat you right, then you don't go back! Disney works for me. I am the one that pays them for services. That means that I am always right, and that I am their boss.

Too bad they don't see it that way.

Have you contacted Disney directly either by calling 407-560-PASS (immediate contact) or emailing wdw.guest.communications@disneyworld.com (2-3 weeks to get a response) to express your frustration and displeasure with this treatment? It's all well and good to say you'll go elsewhere but if they never receive direct feedback on how unhappy their customers are and why, they'll continue to think nobody really has a problem with it and will continue doing it. At this stage it's become necessary for passholders who feel disenfranchised by this treatment to pressure Disney to respond and communicate what their plans are. The silent treatment they've been using for the last 9 months is simply no longer acceptable.
 

George

Liker of Things
Premium Member
What a disappointment. I expected the link to a kinky website after reading the title. *sigh*
On the topic at hand, I would hope that Disney would move to appease local APs sooner rather than later. I wonder if the main problem is that the roll out didn't go smoothly.....I would definitely complain, otherwise, the issue may get lost in the shuffle.
 

thomas998

Well-Known Member
I understand people being upset with having something they once had being taken away. But I also see the reason behind giving the resort guest something extra. When you stay in a Disney resort you are paying a significant premium beyond what you would pay at a comparable non Disney hotel. So this will just be a way to justify the added cost for guests. It may also have something to do with the number of APs that are sold to locals, maybe WDW is getting a bit like DL where the APs are becoming a burden to resort guests.

In the end APs just need to look at the cost benefit of the AP without fast pass, if it doesn't add up for you then stop buying it. Disney doesn't listen to emails or phone calls they only care about the surveys the do and while I have sometimes been stopped for that the parks, I always get one when I stay at a resort - so expect any of their research to be heavily skewed by the thoughts of the resort guest and not the park guest.
 

PolynesianPrincess

Well-Known Member
I understand people being upset with having something they once had being taken away. But I also see the reason behind giving the resort guest something extra. When you stay in a Disney resort you are paying a significant premium beyond what you would pay at a comparable non Disney hotel. So this will just be a way to justify the added cost for guests. It may also have something to do with the number of APs that are sold to locals, maybe WDW is getting a bit like DL where the APs are becoming a burden to resort guests.

In the end APs just need to look at the cost benefit of the AP without fast pass, if it doesn't add up for you then stop buying it. Disney doesn't listen to emails or phone calls they only care about the surveys the do and while I have sometimes been stopped for that the parks, I always get one when I stay at a resort - so expect any of their research to be heavily skewed by the thoughts of the resort guest and not the park guest.

I actually received a phone call from an email I sent expressing my disappointment not just with MM+ and FP+ but with some CM's I had issues with on our trip. So saying they don't respond to emails is untrue. We are passholders and I expressed to them I would be taking my dollars elsewhere. I received a call 3 days after I sent the email. While we may not spend as much in 1 trip as the once in a lifetime family who is there on vacation, I can tell you we sure as heck spend a LOT more than they do over 3-4 trips a year between sit down meals, souvenirs, photopass, etc.. Contrary to what people might think, passholders DO spend money and it wouldn't definitely be a huge blow to the bottom line for Disney if they started losing their passholders. They've already lost us as we will NOT be renewing once ours expire in May.
 

donsullivan

Premium Member
I understand people being upset with having something they once had being taken away. But I also see the reason behind giving the resort guest something extra. When you stay in a Disney resort you are paying a significant premium beyond what you would pay at a comparable non Disney hotel. So this will just be a way to justify the added cost for guests. It may also have something to do with the number of APs that are sold to locals, maybe WDW is getting a bit like DL where the APs are becoming a burden to resort guests.

In the end APs just need to look at the cost benefit of the AP without fast pass, if it doesn't add up for you then stop buying it. Disney doesn't listen to emails or phone calls they only care about the surveys the do and while I have sometimes been stopped for that the parks, I always get one when I stay at a resort - so expect any of their research to be heavily skewed by the thoughts of the resort guest and not the park guest.

In April, 2013 Disney posted a commitment on the Passholder pages of the website (I didn't realize it back then) specifically stating that Passholders would have the advance reservation privilege 'later this year'. It is still there as of this morning.

As of today, they have not delivered on that now 9 month old published commitment and are refusing to communicate an update. People having been buying Annual passes for the last 9 months with that commitment made to them but it has not been delivered.

Despite so many people here feeling Passholders are 'not worthy', we bought tickets with a published commitment that we'd have this and we do not.
 

James122

Well-Known Member
I don't understand the attitude that Annual Passholders aren't 'worthy' or are somehow beneath the ranks of resort guests or day guests. Passholders are still paying customers, the same as everyone else.
 

thomas998

Well-Known Member
I don't understand the attitude that Annual Passholders aren't 'worthy' or are somehow beneath the ranks of resort guests or day guests. Passholders are still paying customers, the same as everyone else.

I've been a passholder in the past, and I've spent even more years as nothing more than an annual visitor... I think every passholder will have to admit that the only reason you buy the annual pass is because it is the most economical way for you to get into the park... I know in the years when I was a passholder that was my reasoning. I knew how often I would be going to the park and compared it to the cost of tickets, the pass was cheaper so that was the thing I did those years. So it seem logical that while a passholder is a paying customer they are also a lower paying customer than a regular visitor.

Would you use the same argument of everyone is a paying customer to demand that you be given the same magic hour early access to the resorts that are provided to resort guests? And would you also say that every guest to things like Mickey's Halloween party should be allowed to buy the limited edition AP pins that are reserved for passholders? I can pretty much guarantee those AP pins would sell out before every AP holder that wanted them could get them if any paying visitor could get them.

The reality is you get what you pay for. A passholder is paying less per visit than a resort guest so their is going to be some perks afforded to that higher paying guest. Much like Vegas as VIP rooms where only the folks that spend lots of money are allowed versus the people the spend on a budget.
 

thomas998

Well-Known Member
I actually received a phone call from an email I sent expressing my disappointment not just with MM+ and FP+ but with some CM's I had issues with on our trip. So saying they don't respond to emails is untrue. We are passholders and I expressed to them I would be taking my dollars elsewhere. I received a call 3 days after I sent the email. While we may not spend as much in 1 trip as the once in a lifetime family who is there on vacation, I can tell you we sure as heck spend a LOT more than they do over 3-4 trips a year between sit down meals, souvenirs, photopass, etc.. Contrary to what people might think, passholders DO spend money and it wouldn't definitely be a huge blow to the bottom line for Disney if they started losing their passholders. They've already lost us as we will NOT be renewing once ours expire in May.

I would say you are lucky. In my experience with sending emails about issues I received the wonder canned email responses that could have been sent by a person but seemed more likely to have been generated by some computer system that simply picked up key words about the complaint and sent the programmed responses that in one instance clearly failed to even address the issue of the email.
 

donsullivan

Premium Member
I've been a passholder in the past, and I've spent even more years as nothing more than an annual visitor... I think every passholder will have to admit that the only reason you buy the annual pass is because it is the most economical way for you to get into the park... I know in the years when I was a passholder that was my reasoning. I knew how often I would be going to the park and compared it to the cost of tickets, the pass was cheaper so that was the thing I did those years. So it seem logical that while a passholder is a paying customer they are also a lower paying customer than a regular visitor.

Would you use the same argument of everyone is a paying customer to demand that you be given the same magic hour early access to the resorts that are provided to resort guests? And would you also say that every guest to things like Mickey's Halloween party should be allowed to buy the limited edition AP pins that are reserved for passholders? I can pretty much guarantee those AP pins would sell out before every AP holder that wanted them could get them if any paying visitor could get them.

The reality is you get what you pay for. A passholder is paying less per visit than a resort guest so their is going to be some perks afforded to that higher paying guest. Much like Vegas as VIP rooms where only the folks that spend lots of money are allowed versus the people the spend on a budget.

So if I'm to use your argument, what is the dollar threshold that a passholder needs to reach before you deem them worthy of the benefit that Disney already committed they would have but has not delivered? Is it $1,000, $2,000, $5,000, $10,000 in annual spending at WDW?
 

sublimesting

Well-Known Member
APers (and I'm one of them) are paying about $1.66 per day to use the parks. Kind of hard to justify how we are worthy of the same treatment as a guest who pays about $90/day. ALthough I agree it sucks and needs to be fixed as there is no point in excluding APers, I can see Disney's point that they aren't making the same cash off of us and aren't too concerned if we don't buy APs anymore. It will actually give them more money if we don't use APs.
 

thomas998

Well-Known Member
What is this burden you speak of?

As I stated, "maybe WDW is getting a bit like DL where the APs are becoming a burden to resort guests".... I am not sure that APs are impacting WDW the way they do DL, but if you frequent DL you notice that during the non-summer weeks traffic gets high during the weekdays at about the time people start getting off work. Many APers near DL like to go there after work and it create a truly congested park when the AP wave hits. This is even more of a problem there because the APers typically bring their own food and drink and aren't really going to be buying mouse ears everytime they go. A park can only hold so many guests before it starts becoming over crowded and a turn off to some... when it happens you aren't as likely to start chasing off the APers as you are the other guests and the other guest generate a lot more money for Disney as a whole.

The reality of APs is that they are not the type of product Disney wants to sell. If Disney could pick between a park filled with nothing but resort guests or nothing but APs they would prefer the resort guests. I would be surprised if you don't see more and more perks given to resort guests in the future and less to the AP users, then if the resort guests are hitting the numbers they need you can expect them to start trying to woo AP folks. It isn't a mystery as to why, they just want the people the will spend the most per visit.
 

Californian Elitist

Well-Known Member
As I stated, "maybe WDW is getting a bit like DL where the APs are becoming a burden to resort guests".... I am not sure that APs are impacting WDW the way they do DL, but if you frequent DL you notice that during the non-summer weeks traffic gets high during the weekdays at about the time people start getting off work. Many APers near DL like to go there after work and it create a truly congested park when the AP wave hits. This is even more of a problem there because the APers typically bring their own food and drink and aren't really going to be buying mouse ears everytime they go. A park can only hold so many guests before it starts becoming over crowded and a turn off to some... when it happens you aren't as likely to start chasing off the APers as you are the other guests and the other guest generate a lot more money for Disney as a whole.

The reality of APs is that they are not the type of product Disney wants to sell. If Disney could pick between a park filled with nothing but resort guests or nothing but APs they would prefer the resort guests. I would be surprised if you don't see more and more perks given to resort guests in the future and less to the AP users, then if the resort guests are hitting the numbers they need you can expect them to start trying to woo AP folks. It isn't a mystery as to why, they just want the people the will spend the most per visit.

If APs are a problem, why does Disneyland offer special things to get annual passholders to continue to come back and renew their passes?
 

thomas998

Well-Known Member
If APs are a problem, why does Disneyland offer special things to get annual passholders to continue to come back and renew their passes?

All that means is that when they raised the price of the annual passes the last time, that they lost more passholders than they wanted to lose. They know that given the current economy they aren't going to be able to draw in the number of out of town guests so they are filling that void with passholders... But just wait, when times get better there they will shift the other way and try to squeeze out the locals...

The real question you should be asking as an annual passholder at DL is why don't you get to enter the parks early like resort guests? I mean according to some poster here the passholder should be getting everything the resort guests get.
 

Californian Elitist

Well-Known Member
All that means is that when they raised the price of the annual passes the last time, that they lost more passholders than they wanted to lose. They know that given the current economy they aren't going to be able to draw in the number of out of town guests so they are filling that void with passholders... But just wait, when times get better there they will shift the other way and try to squeeze out the locals...

The real question you should be asking as an annual passholder at DL is why don't you get to enter the parks early like resort guests? I mean according to some poster here the passholder should be getting everything the resort guests get.

The number of DLR APs is, if not at a million, close to it, and that number continues to grow. They practically beg you to renew a whole month before your pass even expires by sending you multiple pieces of mail.

Maybe this is in regards to WDW, I don't know. A DL AP can enter the parks anytime they want. Are you solely referring to WDW?
 

thomas998

Well-Known Member
The number of DLR APs is, if not at a million, close to it, and that number continues to grow. They practically beg you to renew a whole month before your pass even expires by sending you multiple pieces of mail.

Maybe this is in regards to WDW, I don't know. A DL AP can enter the parks anytime they want. Are you solely referring to WDW?

While you might think that DL is practically begging people to renew their annual passes. The fact that they have increased in price from $439 in 2009 to $699 today for the premium pass would suggest otherwise. Basic economics tells you that when prices go up demand goes down. Also I think you are a bit mistaken on DL passes most have blackout dates and do not allow you to enter on any given day.

You might find the following paper interesting as someone an UNLV appears to have done a paper on annual passes at DL. Though by the persons own admission a lot of information is confidential and Disney doesn't disclose it.

http://digitalscholarship.unlv.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1541&context=thesesdissertations
 

CohibaMan

Active Member
Original Poster
Would you use the same argument of everyone is a paying customer to demand that you be given the same magic hour early access to the resorts that are provided to resort guests?

No, but I will say that EMH have ruined Hollywood Studios on Saturdays for my family. If you get there at 9AM, the standby line for TSMM will already be 60 minutes, RNR will be 45, and TOT will be 30. That's crazy for 9AM! To make matters worse, the FastPass return time will be 2-3PM. And it's all because of the resort guests flooding the park from 8-9AM for the EMH. So, if it was Disney's intention to keep locals away, then congratulations. Now we go to MK on Saturdays for rope drop. The EMH would be easy to work around if I could say, go online and make FastPass reservations in advance... :)

If I can't ride TSMM, then I won't go to Hollywood Studios. It's really that simple. My son loves Toy Story and the look of disappointment on his face when I told him that 90 minutes is just too long to wait to do anything in this world, was simply devastating!
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
The real question you should be asking as an annual passholder at DL is why don't you get to enter the parks early like resort guests? I mean according to some poster here the passholder should be getting everything the resort guests get.
Because Disneyland Annual Passholders overwhelmingly arrive in the afternoon? Access to the Extra Magic Hours and Magic Mornings would be a non-perk for many.
 

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