Appalling state of the monorail cabins

gmajew

Premium Member
Question would we even know if they placed and order for new monorails?

Would that even be an amount they need to disclose to the public as it is not a huge amount on their balance sheets.
 

s8film40

Well-Known Member
Question would we even know if they placed and order for new monorails?

Would that even be an amount they need to disclose to the public as it is not a huge amount on their balance sheets.
I'm sure the news would leak out. It also likely wouldn't be just as simple as ordering some trains. They would likely upgrade the system to accommodate Innovia 200 trains (I doubt Bombardier would build Innovia 100's for them). Much of the automation technology going into place right now would make a smoother transition though.
 

note2001

Well-Known Member
Which is why they continue to reinforce it with almost every advertisement they put out? If you want something to "go away" there are ways to do so in business world. Continuing to market that item is not one of them.
Agreed. The monorail is one of Disney's best marketing images, Give almost any American (or Canadian) a one second glimpse of one of Disney's monorails and they'll instantly associate it with Disney parks, and many of those folk will be able to tell you which location: DL or WDW.

If Disney 'hates' the monorail so much, they would have seen the cost of keeping it up back in the 70s. Why would they have bothered extending it miles down to EPCOT? Nah, not buying that TDO overall hates the monorail. Perhaps those who have to justify the expenses do.
 

gmajew

Premium Member
I'm sure the news would leak out. It also likely wouldn't be just as simple as ordering some trains. They would likely upgrade the system to accommodate Innovia 200 trains (I doubt Bombardier would build Innovia 100's for them). Much of the automation technology going into place right now would make a smoother transition though.


Then what are the upgrading around the transportation center and all over the tracks now? Is this them getting ready for an upgrade? They would not be doing all of this work I would think just for the heck of it.
 

s8film40

Well-Known Member
Agreed. The monorail is one of Disney's best marketing images, Give almost any American (or Canadian) a one second glimpse of one of Disney's monorails and they'll instantly associate it with Disney parks, and many of those folk will be able to tell you which location: DL or WDW.

If Disney 'hates' the monorail so much, they would have seen the cost of keeping it up back in the 70s. Why would they have bothered extending it miles down to EPCOT? Nah, not buying that TDO overall hates the monorail. Perhaps those who have to justify the expenses do.
I think it safe to say it's a love/hate relationship. I would think they love the marketing aspect of it and it's association with the Disney "brand", but don't like that it's set up as a required transportation system for the resort and the costs that come along with that. I'm sure they would prefer it just be an attraction in the park.
 

wdwmagic

Administrator
Moderator
Premium Member
Then what are the upgrading around the transportation center and all over the tracks now? Is this them getting ready for an upgrade? They would not be doing all of this work I would think just for the heck of it.
The work at the TTC is related to emergency exit from the platforms. The work on the track is for the automation system to take drivers out of the equation.
 

s8film40

Well-Known Member
Then what are the upgrading around the transportation center and all over the tracks now? Is this them getting ready for an upgrade? They would not be doing all of this work I would think just for the heck of it.
It could be, and this is purely speculation. Maybe they decided to spread the costs of upgrading the system out over time, put in the automation now, keep the trains running and in somewhat decent shape, then later on purchase new trains.

Ultimately what I think they should do is once the automation is up and running, take one train off the system. Then completely tear it down and simultaneously rebuild it and build one or two more trains themselves. With an extra train or two they could afford to take trains off the system one by one for about 3-6 months each and completely rebuild them. In this process they could redesign them somewhat, remove the drivers consoles and make the cabs accessible to guests, a better door system so they wouldn't need ramps, more open floorpan for the cars etc.
 

note2001

Well-Known Member
Ultimately what I think they should do is once the automation is up and running, take one train off the system. Then completely tear it down and simultaneously rebuild it and build one or two more trains themselves. With an extra train or two they could afford to take trains off the system one by one for about 3-6 months each and completely rebuild them. In this process they could redesign them somewhat, remove the drivers consoles and make the cabs accessible to guests, a better door system so they wouldn't need ramps, more open floorpan for the cars etc.

I thought we had heard this is what they were doing, starting with Monorail Teal (pink/purple re-imagined). Is Teal back out running? If so, are there any noticeable changes to it?
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
I'm sure the news would leak out. It also likely wouldn't be just as simple as ordering some trains. They would likely upgrade the system to accommodate Innovia 200 trains (I doubt Bombardier would build Innovia 100's for them). Much of the automation technology going into place right now would make a smoother transition though.
There is no INNOVIA 100 and the INNOVIA 200 is based on the Mark VI at Walt Disney World. Before the INNOVIA branding the 200s were called the M-VI.
 

s8film40

Well-Known Member
I thought we had heard this is what they were doing, starting with Monorail Teal (pink/purple re-imagined). Is Teal back out running? If so, are there any noticeable changes to it?
What I am describing is a little more extensive. I would take it off completely tear it down and rebuild it. They just put Pink and Purple together and rebuilt two cabs. I would also think it would be a good opportunity to completely update the trains, new interior design, guest accessible cabs, new door design etc.
 

s8film40

Well-Known Member
There is no INNOVIA 100 and the INNOVIA 200 is based on the Mark VI at Walt Disney World. Before the INNOVIA branding the 200s were called the M-VI.
The Innovia 200 or M VI is quite a bit more advanced than the Mark VI. Innovia 200 is the 2nd generation of the Mark VI and Innovia 300 is the 3rd Generation of the Mark VI. So yes there is no Innovia 100, but if Bombardier built one I'm sure that's what they would call it.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
The Innovia 200 or M VI is quite a bit more advanced than the Mark VI. Innovia 200 is the 2nd generation of the Mark VI and Innovia 300 is the 3rd Generation of the Mark VI. So yes there is no Innovia 100, but if Bombardier built one I'm sure that's what they would call it.
There isn't that big of a difference. And the 300s are a completely different suspension system that is derived from the later Alweg design, not the earlier design that the Disney monorails utilize.
 

s8film40

Well-Known Member
There isn't that big of a difference. And the 300s are a completely different suspension system that is derived from the later Alweg design, not the earlier design that the Disney monorails utilize.
The Innovia 200 has a completely different suspension system also. Quite a bit of time passed from when they built the Mark VI and the Innovia 200. They put a lot of advancements into the train. It's a similar form factor to the Mark VI but that's about it. I don't think they just randomly chose the 200 number for their second generation of that style of train.
 
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lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
The Innovia 200 has a completely different suspension system also. Quite a bit of time passed from when they built the Mark VI and the Innovia 200. They put a lot of advancements into the train. It's a similar form factor to the Mark VI but that's about it. I don't think they just randomly chose the 200 number for their second generation of that style of train.
It's the same large wheel system. If you're going to look at naming why wasn't the M-VI called the M-VII?
 

s8film40

Well-Known Member
It's the same large wheel system. If you're going to look at naming why wasn't the M-VI called the M-VII?
Well in any case in 1989 they built the Mark VI's and they built the M-VI/Innovia 200 in 2003. A lot changed in that timespan and a lot of newer technology was introduced. I have always assumed they referred to their 2nd generation train as 200 and the 3rd as 300 implying that their first would be 100 if they built it today. Obviously only Bombardier would be able to answer that. I guess the name itself is kind of irrelevant. One thing we do no for certain is that if you took a LV Innovia 200 off the track and brought it to WDW it wouldn't even run as is without some extensive modification to the system.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Well in any case in 1989 they built the Mark VI's and they built the M-VI/Innovia 200 in 2003. A lot changed in that timespan and a lot of newer technology was introduced. I have always assumed they referred to their 2nd generation train as 200 and the 3rd as 300 implying that their first would be 100 if they built it today. Obviously only Bombardier would be able to answer that. I guess the name itself is kind of irrelevant. One thing we do no for certain is that if you took a LV Innovia 200 of the track and brought it to WDW it wouldn't even run as is without some extensive modification to the system.
That is more because the INNOVIA 200s are designed to be driverless. They would fit just fine on the beam way and if they had manual controls would be able to drive. Las Vegas went from Walt Disney World Mark IVs to M-VIs. The costs of new trains are more about the way transit grade vehicles are designed and built, because they are supposed to last and be rebuilt over many years.
 

s8film40

Well-Known Member
That is more because the INNOVIA 200s are designed to be driverless. They would fit just fine on the beam way and if they had manual controls would be able to drive. Las Vegas went from Walt Disney World Mark IVs to M-VIs. The costs of new trains are more about the way transit grade vehicles are designed and built, because they are supposed to last and be rebuilt over many years.
The entire power system would need to be changed to support the required 750 VDC the M-VI requires as opposed to the 600VDC system in place.
 

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