Any DVC'ers out there think we should have more perks?

[slappy magoo]

I think it's a pretty big leap to assume that added character meals would be immediate profit centers. Disney used to have a character breakfast at OKW's Olivia's years ago but it was eliminated.

When it comes to adding restaurants or opening for additional meals, I'm sure that Disney looks at the entire resort complex as a whole. Sure a character breakfast at The Turf Club would attract business. But if it's drawing mostly guests who would otherwise have dined at 1900 Park Fare, Ohana's or Crystal Palace, then it really isn't adding to the bottom line. You're just taking business from one restaurant and shifting it to another.

Character meals are pretty expensive to operate, too. The performers receive equity wages, plus there are added positions for handlers, photographers, etc. That makes for thousands of dollars in added salaries and benefits each day above-and-beyond a non-character meal.

When all else fails, I tend to believe that Disney is pretty good at wringing every nickel, dime and quarter from our pockets. If their accountants demonstrate that a character meal at Whispering Canyon or The Turf Club would be profitable, it will get added.

For the record, I never said that character meals would be "immediate profit centers." In fact, depending on the Byzantine way DVC operations have to be separate from WDW operations, it might not be allowed to turn a profit at all. DVC resorts, I believe, have to be self-sufficient, and if they were to turn a profit, that profit has to be reimbursed to anyone who calls that resort their home resort, in the form of reduced maintenance fees. Money would have to be spent up front, but it's not like building a new restaurant from scratch, with a whole new staff and all of the expenses new restaurants incur. It's just about extending hours of places that are only open for one or two meals a day.

I can agree that Disney's pretty savvy about how to maximize their profits, but I'm not talking about something built to make them money, per se, but something that would enhance the experience of going to WDW for DVC members that wouldn't necessarily COST them money. If a restaurant run by DVC (for at least part of the time - a shared or leased restaurant between WDW & DVC?) broke even, kept DVC members happy and became a sellable "perk" to entice future DVC members, then it does indeed have a value beyond the money the restaurant brings in (or doesn't bring in).

I didn't know Olivia's used to have a character breakfast. As a result, I don't know when it stopped. I would suggest, however, that with more rooms and resorts being built all of the time, at least one fewer character meal eliminated (LTT in the MK), and more traffic in the DTD area, maybe the time has come to revisit the idea. Or maybe a character meal at Olivia's wasn't feasible, but that doesn't mean a character meal in another DVC resort is automatically unfeasible. Artist's Pallette is almost impossible to get served quickly unless you just grab bagels or pastries. Lines are ridiculous every time I've gone to AP except late lunch and bright-and-early breakfast. The food court area at WL is also packed a lot of the time. Breakfast at Boardwalk is very limited and even with ADRs at Cape May Cafe for breakfast, I've never been served "on time," waits of 20 minutes are not unheard of, so perhaps character meals in these areas will take the stress off of the eateries already there. I'm sure WDW would prefer having as few restaurants as possible and have people come in at 3am for lunch if necessary, but if they're refusing business or not able to sufficiently stagger the reservations they have, it seems to me maybe some strategically placed character meals would improve customer satisfaction, which one way or another usually improves the bottom line.

I also disagree with the notion that a new character meal automatically means other restaurants would suffer, mainly because the restaurants one would assume would "suffer" are in high traffic areas and have to refuse requests much of the time anyway. If a character breakfast opened at Turf Club, and a DVC member decided to go there instead of the character breakfast at Ohanas, I'd be willing to bet a shiny nickel SOMEONE would snap that open ADR at Ohanas up. :lol:

On the flip-flop, if you're a DVC member and you can't get the reservations you want at Le Cellier or the Castle or Primetime or wherever else, well here would be an opportunity to get into a restaurant that not everyone CAN get into. It possibly enhances it's "unique-ness," due to its exclusivity. It affords DVC members more time in the parks to not wait on line for autographs for their kids (and time is a luxury, especially at WDW).

Besides, as DVC members, we tend to go to WDW a lot more than most of the rest of the world. I know, I know, someone's gonna pipe in and say "hey, I'm not a DVC member and I go ever third week for 10 days at a clip." We go more than MOST of the rest of the world, but not necessarily more than everyone. As a result, you probably have a better shot at DVC members being able to take more days slow 'n easy than a family that goes less frequently, so they'll want to spend more time in the parks.

In my opinion the main drawback is that, since I'm mainly talking about restaurants in resorts, it might be more of a pain to get to them. But again, since we're talking about DVC members, I'd have high confidence in predicting that, on any given day, out of the thousands of DVC rooms booked, you'll find enough members who'd like to get face time with characters to support a DVC-centric character meal. And if I'm wrong, hell, make the meal seasonal, or stagger the times to it's only a few days a week. See if there is a desire, and if there isn't, lose it. I think there would be.

 

[slappy magoo]

I often hear DVC members gripe a bit about the general public getting such promotions as free dining. Understandably most want a piece of the action. However, most fail to realize what a regular guest has to do to get "free" dining. They have to pay full price for their room and tickets which something a DVC member will never have to do. That is why you bought into the DVC isent i?. So you could lock in today's prices forever.

The reality is financial gain is the only incentive for a company to do a promotion. How would WDW make additional money by offering a segment of guests free or reduced dining when they are already financially bound to be at WDW, buy tickets and eat on property ? I know some will say "loyalty to dedicated customers". Disney does not really need to be all that loyal to DVC members. Again as I mentioned before your are financially obligated to be there. Sure you could use your points on another vacation but we all know that the dollar to point value always ends up in Disney's favor if you do that.

I would like to pose a question.

How would WDW gain financially by offering free or reduced dining to existing DVC members?

Totally get where you're coming from. One of my other suggestions would be to offer DVC members discounted dining to less-frequented restaurants. A 2 entrees for one kind of deal. I'd amend that to include that you couldn't use any dining plan with that offer (get two dinners for one dining credit at Olivia's, for instance). What this COULD, conceivably do, is get DVC members to spend more cash on meals they might otherwise eat (opting for snacks or cooking a meal in the room, instead), it spreads the guests out amongst the entire resort more, with more looky-loos going into more gift shops, or spending more at the bar since they're spending less on their meals. And those extra dining credits would then be used at other restaurants, or maybe even go towards a Signature Dining Experience. I know some SDE restaurants are always packed (like Cali Grill and the Castle). But others are not. Hell, maybe make it an offer to DVC members - make reservations at Artist Point or Jiko (two excellent restaurants, and your experiences may differ from mine, but I've never seen either one booked solid), and then you get a 2-for-1 offer at Turf Club or other less-frequented restaurants.

Does it make DVC more money, up front? No. Are they dining discount perks that could be used to entice people to becoming members? Obviously not a major perk, I don't think it'll be anyone's deciding factor, but the idea that DVC members are always getting meal offers in place known for surgically extracting money from wallets is a nice little temptation to have.

 

[flynnibus]

I would never consider DVC without getting free park passes as part of the deal... that's just me. I can't justify committing to a Disney property for basically forever purely based on locked in costs where it still costs 12-15+ years to even break even.

 

[DisneyJoe]

Don't DVC members get a discount on the purchase of an Annual Pass? Doesn't having an AP allow the purchase of the TiW card - that gives a 20% discount on many restaurants - as well as the standard AP dining discounts?

 

[Monty]

Don't DVC members get a discount on the purchase of an Annual Pass? Doesn't having an AP allow the purchase of the TiW card - that gives a 20% discount on many restaurants - as well as the standard AP dining discounts?

Just to be clear, TiW discounts are in place of, not in addition to AP discounts. However, I believe there are places where the AP discount is available but not the TiW...

 

[Disneykidder]

I don't think DVC will ever offer free tickets again but I see your point. Also, DVC is not cheap and would actually be cheaper to go year by year and stay in a value or mod resort.

No, I don't think Disney will gain a thing by offering the dining at a discount. They have our $$ no matter what and whether we use our points or not...it just would be nice.

Yeah, APs are like $100 off reg price, I think.

 

[tjkraz]

I get what you're saying, Slappy, but I don't think you're giving Disney enough credit in this case. There are many examples of resort restaurants only being open for select meals. The facility is ready, willing and able to serve guests with just a staff being added.

But the only conclusion I can draw is that Disney has concluded it can't make enough money from those locations to justify added meals. Take Sanaa at Kidani Village, for example. No breakfast served there and really the only option is for guests to walk over to Jambo to dine at Mara or Jiko. If Disney DID open Sanaa for breakfast, certainly it would attract diners. But it also adds overhead in the form of CMs, utilities, ingredients, etc. And the question becomes how Sanaa breakfast would change dining habits.

Right now Disney is still getting breakfast business from Kidani guests--it's just that they have to choose from things like walking to Jambo, buying groceries to eat in their room or dining at any other resort or theme park which offers breakfast. So while Sanaa may attract a decent breakfast crowd, it will also siphon business from Jiko, Mara and dozens of other locations. And we can't automatically assume that those vacancies will be taken by someone else.

The question is whether a new meal offering would convince guests to spend MORE MONEY at Disney restaurants. Speaking solely for myself, we eat about 4-5 sit-down meals during a typical Disney vacation. If Disney added a character meal at The Turf Club, we would probably give it a try. But that meal isn't going to convince us to spend any more money. It just means one less reservation elsewhere.

And apparently Disney knows that it doesn't need to expand its offerings to accommodate more guests. The LTT character meal was eliminated so I guess that represented excess capacity for character meals. :shrug: Olivia's used to host a Pooh character breakfast circa 2001 and that was eliminated after 9/11. From what I have heard, despite the guaranteed high occupancy of a dedicated DVC resort, the Pooh meal was still under utilized. And it attracted virtually no non-resort traffic. That's why it was never resurrected and why other DVCs have not gotten character meals (SSR.)

In fairness, I'll add that Vero stared hosting a once-a-week character meal this summer. So perhaps DVC is willing to look into something like that again. Since Vero is off-site, it's hard to tell whether they'd have the same pull at WDW, though.

Logistically I have no idea what it would take to implement a character meal. But I agree it would be a nice perk to see them try a character meal at someplace like The Turf Club. Even if it was just one day per week to start, I'm sure members would embrace it. But in the long run, the question becomes whether that one character meal ends up being supported by losses at other restaurants. If so, then it just doesn't make bottom-line sense.

 

[Phonedave]

I often hear DVC members gripe a bit about the general public getting such promotions as free dining. Understandably most want a piece of the action. However, most fail to realize what a regular guest has to do to get "free" dining. They have to pay full price for their room and tickets which something a DVC member will never have to do. That is why you bought into the DVC isent i?. So you could lock in today's prices forever.

The reality is financial gain is the only incentive for a company to do a promotion. How would WDW make additional money by offering a segment of guests free or reduced dining when they are already financially bound to be at WDW, buy tickets and eat on property ? I know some will say "loyalty to dedicated customers". Disney does not really need to be all that loyal to DVC members. Again as I mentioned before your are financially obligated to be there. Sure you could use your points on another vacation but we all know that the dollar to point value always ends up in Disney's favor if you do that.

I would like to pose a question.

How would WDW gain financially by offering free or reduced dining to existing DVC members?

Just to go a bit farther with the above

DVC vs. Pay as you go is akin to long term growth investing vs. short term profit.

Right now the economy is garbage, and WDW is offering incentives out the wazoo to get people to attend. DVC owners, you are locked in, you are pretty much going to attend, so you get no added incentives.

In a few years (or less hopefully) when the economy turns around (as economys tend to do) the amount of incentives that WDW will offer will be much much less. However, aside from the normal (and capped) increase in your dues, DVC members will still be "paying" the same rate as they are now.

It's all there in black and white, and my sales person (Susie Farnsworth) was pretty clear about it as well. The DVC is a long term cost leveling vehicle. If you are only planning to go to WDW every 5 years or so, then it pays to wait for the bargins and time the market. If you stay in value or moderate resorts, then it pays to go that "cheaper" route.

However, if you fit the (very narrow in my opinion) description of yearly vacations, of over a week, at deluxe resorts then the DVC - OVER TIME - will work out. Some years there will be better deals than the DVC out there, and other years you are going to make out like a bandit.

The perks are nice, but its is CLEARLY stated when you meet with your agent that they can (and do) stop at any time. You should not base your decision to go DVC or not on any existing or perceived future perks.

Would I like free dining? You bet I would. I paid for my AP's many months ago. I also am DVC. I would have loved to have my trip for the kids and I the end of this month cost me nothing other than air fare, but it's not going to happen, and I am not complaining about it.


-dave

 

[slappy magoo]

tjkraz, I hate to sound like I'm underestimating the intelligence of the American public, but I suspect that certain character meals, exclusive to DVC guests, would be embraced were they offered as, and explained to be, a "perk." The exclusivity of the offering - this is only available to DVC members, not those plebes off the street - would be enough for many DVC members to consider it, even if it's in an out of the way place. Olivia's may prove to be a bad example; even if someone's who IS a DVC member but NOT staying at OKW were to be spending time at DTD, getting to Olivia's seems like more of a hassle. Turf Club is a little more within walking distance, and by virtue of the fact that you can see the resort from DTD, it comes across as less remote. I still see it as a viable alternative at Artist Point however, a character breakfast or lunch at a resort that is commutable to MK by ferry will hold allure. And a character lunch at Cape May, where there is already a character breakfast & no lunch served and is within a 5 minute walk from Epcot's back door, would also be attractive to DVC members (granted, I'm no chef and I have no idea if the kitchen has to be closed during lunch to prepare for the dinner clambake).

Again, this is all based on the idea of: what, if anything, migh be a practical "perk" for DVC members? I understand, because we are essentially locked in to keep going to WDW, there's little incentive for Disney to offer us anything beyond what they currently do. I also understand the Disney would have more incentive to offer perks if those perks made the money elsewhere, so my suggestion is more along the lines of "wouldn't it be nice if..." and certainly not "we deserve more/better than what we get, and they can start by giving us this," which is not the sort of thing I'd ever say anyway.

Having said all of that, were DVC/WDW to try offering special meals to DVC members, even if it were only once or twice a week and at out of the way places, but marketed it as an exclusive - maybe, instead of the the most popular characters, they went out of their way to give us obscure characters you can't find anywhere else, the obscure characters that DVC members/Disney trivia buffs would know and want to see - I really think they'd find a willing clientele, enough to at least break even. And again, when it comes to stuff like DVC, it's the sort of thing they can use to bring more people into the fold; it's not just appeasing the people they've already got. Hell, I think they could offer a big blowout character meal once a month at Horizons, offer it solely to DVC members, treat it more like a reception than "just" another character meal, and DVC members would sell it out consistently.

 

[DABIGCHEEZ]

I like the idea of bringing out very rare characters for DVCers.. but why not have a spot in the park for these M&G? They did it for DisneyVisa holders last year at Epcot... wasn't rare charcter but same idea.

Also a flat discount on merch or meals would be nice..... not only a select few.

 

[schewy]

I love the current perks. I did not join for the perks but for the accomidations. However, I would like to see some type of perk in relation to the dining plan. Maybe a little discount on the price or a upgrade of some sort. The dining plan, I feel, is a good deal because I eat in places I normally would not eat at due to the cost. Prior to the dining plan I splurged on one or two character meals each trip. With the dining we enjoy this type of meal each day. But keeping with the discussion, this is what I would suggest as an additional perk I would like to see one day

 

[slappy magoo]

Here's another idea for a perk that I think would be nice, albiet one with a ginormous *subject to availability" attached to it.


DVC members already get discounts if they pay cash for DVC rooms (for example, if they want to stay longer than their points allow, or pay for the room on the weekend and use points before and after to extend the trip). If times are slow and space is available, I think it'd be great if they offer rooms outside the DVC realm to us at a discount. It can have some serious caveats. The way I see it, a DVC member would/should pay extra to stay in their DVC resort. Then, within a month of their trip, they can see if any rooms are availabe in Poly or GF, OR the mods or values. If they are, they can get those rooms at a discount comparable to an annual passholder, and they can then cancel their room for cash at the DVC resort, which may, in turn, open it up to other DVC members.

Having such a narrow window would probably insure it's not used often, because the rooms won't be there to get in the first place. But if they are available, it could be a nice option for DVC members.

 

[GJF323]

I for one hope the resort level fastpass thing never comes to pass. It creates a hierarchy in the parks that Disney does not need.

I agree with this. Isn't it exactly what Walt didn't want? Having to pay more to get treated better?

 

[majortom1981]

I think we should get some kind of perks seeing as a lot of the in resort restaurants get booked by non resort members we should get some kind of dinning plan deal.

It gets very very annoying not being able to eat at your own resorts restaraunt

 

[littlestar]

I would never consider DVC without getting free park passes as part of the deal... that's just me. I can't justify committing to a Disney property for basically forever purely based on locked in costs where it still costs 12-15+ years to even break even.

Some early buyers at OKW and Vero received free LOS (length of stay) admission for half the occupancy of the unit they booked. I heard that ended in 1999.

I wouldn't buy in today if I had to pay over $100 a point.

 

[Phonedave]

I think we should get some kind of perks seeing as a lot of the in resort restaurants get booked by non resort members we should get some kind of dinning plan deal.

It gets very very annoying not being able to eat at your own resorts restaraunt

I don't know how this would be implimented, but I do like the idea of it.

For DVC only resorts, perhaps some sort of "reserved reservations" for members staying at that resort. But then the Turf Club is never really packed anyway

Again, I am not sure how it would be implimented or what the rules would be. I am just getting a little tired of the overbooked dining all over WDW.

-dave

 

[rfemle]

I have to agree, DVC'ers do not have true valuable perks, as for locked in rates, Disney changes the points required for stays all the time. I also agree that the internet etc are of no value, AP passes of no use. DVC'ers come almost every year or risk loosing points, can get a hopper pass for LOS cheaper than AP. I have also seen where non DVC are getting upgraded into DVC rooms with free dining, thus making it more difficult to book rooms. Infact DVC has removed the ability to book on short notice. WE spend more every year at Disney beyond our points, but perks are no where near what they should be for the yearly $ we spend beyond our points. I personally got in on DVC, because I was going to spend the money anyways, and like the DVC rooms better, but if all the perks for non, keep getting better, then it may be better to sell, get perks, rent points for DVC when I get the urge. MY opinion, and you are entitled to yours.

 

[DVCOwner]

I want to comment on a few of the points made by rfemle.

"I have to agree, DVC'ers do not have true valuable perks, as for locked in rates, Disney changes the points required for stays all the time."

Total number of points required for staying at a DVC resort for the year can never change. Adjustments to given days or days of the week are made to balance demand.

"I have also seen where non DVC are getting upgraded into DVC rooms with free dining, thus making it more difficult to book rooms. Infact DVC has removed the ability to book on short notice."

Disney can only offer rooms for rent to non DVC member if the points have not yet been sold or the member trades the points to do something outside DVC. Example staying at a non-DVC Disney Resort or trading outside Disney. The cost of these is made up by renting the rooms and using the money to pay for the non-DVC rentals.

The time share market in Florida is well overseen by the State.

 

[slappy magoo]

I have to agree, DVC'ers do not have true valuable perks, as for locked in rates, Disney changes the points required for stays all the time.

How do you define "changes the points required for stays," exactly?

 

[MKCP 1985]

I want to comment on a few of the points made by rfemle.

"I have to agree, DVC'ers do not have true valuable perks, as for locked in rates, Disney changes the points required for stays all the time."

Total number of points required for staying at a DVC resort for the year can never change. Adjustments to given days or days of the week are made to balance demand.

How do you define "changes the points required for stays," exactly?

I'll give you an example of how this is a true statement, from my perspective.

Looking at buying into Bay Lake Tower earlier this year, I spent hours poring over all the information to determine what my actual cost would be. A big part of DVC ownership is your number of points purchased, agreed?

I looked at my historical travel plans which might be "arrive on Friday night, leave on Monday . . . or Tuesday." I then calculated how many points I'd have to purchase depending on what season I booked this trip, or couple of trips.

Well, lo and behold - a few weeks later, it was announced that the points required for days of the week would be re-allocated, to better balance demand. So much for being able to rely on the points never changing! Technically, the same number of points all add up to the same over the course of a month, but I'm not staying for a month! :lol:

The person who stays for a week may be able to say there is no difference. But for many, many Disney park guests, the length of stay is less than a week. (Perhaps there is a perception that most DVC members stay for a week or longer at a time - I doubt that is true with the number of people buying the minimum number of points). And DVC's ability to shift the points around from one day of the week to another is one reason why I am not a DVC member.