Anti- Autism Suit Against Disney Update

[thomas998]

Assume the parents win, that would result in closing down Disney as now no normal guest could ever ride any ride because it would be continually full of autistic kids and their families riding the rides over and over because they could do so without ever standing in line.

Of course the counter is that now anytime anyone goes to Disney they just claim they are autistic and since Disney can't ask for proof of the disability then anyone would be able to get a front of the line pass such that every ride would have very long lines for the front of the line pass and no one using the regular lines... and of course the autistic kids would be having a melt down because the front of the line line was 90 minutes long... So basically the parents wouldn't be able to give their kid that they wanted....

In the end this is just another reason the ADA needs to be revised with very specific details on exactly who it was intended to protect. If you look back at the history of the ADA it was never intended to "protect" as many people as we now have using it as a tool to get something for nothing.... it was never intended for emotional support dogs, it was originally intended for seeing eye dogs but now its been used to turn airplanes into flying dog kennels.

 

[thomas998]

It is different because the place doesn’t cause psychological torment and for many it is the opposite, encouraging the person to open up more than in other places.

Actually he has a valid point. If your autistic kid has a problem with waiting in lines then taking him to a place you know will be filled with lines is the same thing as taking someone with a fear of fish to an aquarium. Maybe people should call the department of human services everytime they see someone with an autistic kid taking them to place that causes them to have a meltdown.

 

[Lucky]

I know a lot of parents with autistic or other special needs kids.

They don’t go to WDW because they like to ride rides. They go there for their kids. And they know what’s best for their kids. No one else does. Not all kids labeled as autistic are the same.

 

[Shouldigo12]

I know a lot of parents with autistic or other special needs kids.

They don’t go to WDW because they like to ride rides. They go there for their kids. And they know what’s best for their kids. No one else does. Not all kids labeled as autistic are the same.

I know plenty of autistic children probably do fine at WDW and the parents go there for the kids enjoyment, not theirs. But if your child gets so upset at not being able to get on a ride over and over again that they have meltdowns and you take them anyway, knowing this will happen....you aren't going there for them.

 

[I am Timmy]

My son is not autistic, but is special needs. He is 26 now, and has been on disability for years. He will probably always live with us. He rarely leaves the house, except for trips to DW (we live in Wa.) We knew something was very wrong from about 9 mo. old. By 2 he was on meds. By 4 he was telling me nothing is fun anymore. He was diagnosed with depression, OCD, Oppositional Defiant disorder, adhd, and restless leg syndrome. His insomnia is epic (up 72 hours?!) By middle school he was having breakdowns and pyschotic epsisodes - that was when they realized he had severe pediatric bipolar disorder. Yep - that's a thing. A couple of times he was suicidal, and this was in middle school. He hasn't been that bad for a long time now. We had to slowly take him down off all the meds they put him on and start him on all new ones. It took a long time to get a combo, but he maxed them all out and still wasn't completely ok. He did manage to graduate high school on time (he's wicked smart) with accomodations and plenty of support at home. He was put on disability years ago with the hope that when he reached adulthood he would have it better managed. Nope - they now call his bipolar "complicated" and told us he will likely never be better than he has been all this time.
So, we live with his "quirks". He gets overwhelmed and shuts down, he does not talk to people, he paces, he chews on everything (found therapeutic chew toys for him. Love!). He doesn't like to be touched (I ask for hugs), or spoken to at times. He gets depressed, sad, or irritates easily. But boy does he love DW! We started going when our boys were little, and we managed. We know to bring his ipod, his chew stuff, let him pace, and we do all the talking for him. He doesn't always show much emotion, and sometimes I can't tell if he's excited about going DW, but he says even if he can't show it, he's overjoyed on the inside. We still go together! I always thought it was my job to make sure he was coping ok in public - not the business we were visiting. When we found out Disney had this program, we loved them even more! I can't imagine anyone thinking they aren't doing enough for any one who is disabled. We felt blessed and grateful. It's his happy place.

 

[I'mwatchinguWizowski]

I know plenty of autistic children probably do fine at WDW and the parents go there for the kids enjoyment, not theirs. But if your child gets so upset at not being able to get on a ride over and over again that they have meltdowns and you take them anyway, knowing this will happen....you aren't going there for them.

I think your missing the point...autistic children having a meltdown is completely different than a child without disabilities. The meltdowns are not because they are spoiled or you’re a bad parent. They are normal and an everyday part of life for a child with autism. Please remember they see the world differently than we do. And why is it wrong for a parent of a child with disabilities to want a “normal” vacation for their kids. That is such a bold statement from somone who I’m assuming doesn’t have a child with disabilities nor truly understands autism. Like i said earlier walk a mile in that families shoes...and then thank god for your blessings.

 

[Shouldigo12]

I think your missing the point...autistic children having a meltdown is completely different than a child without disabilities. The meltdowns are not because they are spoiled or you’re a bad parent. They are normal and an everyday part of life for a child with autism. Please remember they see the world differently than we do. And why is it wrong for a parent of a child with disabilities to want a “normal” vacation for their kids. That is such a bold statement from somone who I’m assuming doesn’t have a child with disabilities nor truly understands autism. Like i said earlier walk a mile in that families shoes...and then thank god for your blessings.

Yeah...I know someone with a disability has different meltdowns than a regular kid and that doesn't make the child or parent bad. I don't have a kid with a disabilty, but my uncle is mentally disabled. I've seen his meltdowns. They're hard on us and everyone who happens to be around us. So you know what we do? We don't do things that will trigger them. Like I said earlier, I would love for every kid to be able to go to the park and have a great time, but if your child gets upset when they can't ride a ride over and over again due to fixation, don't bring them to a place where you know they can't do that and where they'll just get upset. Also, stop assuming you know people's lives.

 

[I'mwatchinguWizowski]

Yeah...I know someone with a disability has different meltdowns than a regular kid and that doesn't make the child or parent bad. I don't have a kid with a disabilty, but my uncle is mentally disabled. I've seen his meltdowns. They're hard on us and everyone who happens to be around us. So you know what we do? We don't do things that will trigger them. Like I said earlier, I would love for every kid to be able to go to the park and have a great time, but if your child gets upset when they can't ride a ride over and over again due to fixation, don't bring them to a place where you know they can't do that and where they'll just get upset. Also, stop assuming you know people's lives.

Than don’t assume and tell a family what they should don with their Autistic child...living with somone 24/7 makes a difference.

 

[Shouldigo12]

Than don’t assume and tell a family what they should don with their Autistic child...living with somone 24/7 makes a difference.

Again...I have. If you think it's ok to bring your child somewhere you know is going to cause them psychological pain, than fine. You do you I guess.

 

[eliza61nyc]

I think your missing the point...autistic children having a meltdown is completely different than a child without disabilities. The meltdowns are not because they are spoiled or you’re a bad parent. They are normal and an everyday part of life for a child with autism. Please remember they see the world differently than we do. And why is it wrong for a parent of a child with disabilities to want a “normal” vacation for their kids. That is such a bold statement from somone who I’m assuming doesn’t have a child with disabilities nor truly understands autism. Like i said earlier walk a mile in that families shoes...and then thank god for your blessings.

I don't think its wrong at all but I also do not think it's the businesses responsibility to make sure anyone's vacation is "normal". I also think that the expectancy of a supposed "normal" tends to lead to more problems. As I said my kid is an Asperger kid, so I don't know the ins and out of autism, so please believe my questions stem from honest curiosity as opposed to judgement.

Now we vacationed when the kids were little "normal" wasn't going to happen, it just couldn't me trying to achieve some standard like that just really led to disappointment for everyone. My first son was born right before the ADA so no one was required to make things accessible, easy or convenient. I think I'm grateful for that because we don't go on vacation assuming that someone is going to make it normal for me,

 

[Almac97]

Hi all,

First post. I've been a lurker here for years until I decided I finally wanted to view/expand posted pictures, so I joined earlier in the year. But this is the topic I finally felt inclined to write my first post, as to the original posts in this thread - I do have a severely autistic family member (31 year old brother, 4 years younger than I), and we've been to WDW every few years over our entire lives so I've experienced the programs, and watched them change while thinking about what works and what didn't.

Just as a quick background, my brother is a gentle giant (6'2") and basically non-verbal. We're very close yet have never had a conversation with each other. Basic "wants and needs" quick blurbs only. He does have quick, sometimes louder than desired, outbursts, but usually just fist clenching, single quick foot stomps, or the likes to express anger.

Long lines during earlier trips to WDW did trigger some of those outbursts. Telling someone who can't fully understand you to walk 5 feet and then stop for a minute, over and over again, in a dark narrow tunnel (POTC, Splash, HM...etc.) for 45 minutes, will obviously trigger some anger on his behalf as he can't comprehend the "why's" to the whole process. In addition, it was obvious at times that we were disrupting others, or were making people talk about us while we're still in earshot.

When the first program existed (carrying a card that allowed instant access to the rides via handicapped entrance), it obviously was great. I remember my brother could go on his favorites like Splash or ToT basically over and over again, and it was a great for him. We obviously were also very aware each and every time we were about to cut a family about to board a ride, and we always apologized to them the moment they were told to wait one more vehicle. 99% of the time, they saw my brother and were absolutely ok.

When we went ~10 years or so ago and saw that the card now only guarantees a ride entrance equal to the time of the line at the moment, we were all shocked, but also knew it was in response to those people who (saying it lightly) were "stretching the definition of disability", or were abusing the system on Craigslist/elsewhere to use their disability to your advantage by having them join you. This obviously meant we weren't going on Splash 20 times/weekend anymore. But we also recognized it as a fair solution and we've been able to use the app to get other FP's, or at least see if something close had a short wait time to bridge the gap. We also now only go when we think crowds will be lesser (knowing "peak season" now is basically year round, we still try!) so we can maximize our time in the parks.

In my brother's schools and programs, I've been around all sorts of children, all across the spectrum. There is no easy solution because each child's behavioral issues can be unique. WDW needs to paint with a broad brush here, and that's always going to clash with a small minority that it doesn't work for, but understandably are just trying to provide their child a fun vacation. But complexity and loopholes open the doors for abuse and scams.

To @thomas998 above, I'll admit I laughed when I read your post about not taking someone with fears of fish to an aquarium, but it's worth noting that autistic children are also very introverted and screens (TV's, iPads, LeapFrogs, computers...etc.) allow them to isolate themselves while being entertained. It just so happens all those screens are Disney's wheelhouse and they have a presence on every single screen platform you can imagine, so many of these kids are infatuated with Disney characters, thus why they're going to WDW specifically.

TLDR - There's no easy answer for WDW. Whatever they do will benefit some and anger others. We've been on both sides of the fence over the last ~25 years. Affected families need to try to make the best of it, and adapt where needed. Those unaffected should also realize that each child is unique and the issues of the families with ACTUAL disabled children may be more complex than you think.

 

[docdebbi]

Hi all,

First post. I've been a lurker here for years until I decided I finally wanted to view/expand posted pictures, so I joined earlier in the year. But this is the topic I finally felt inclined to write my first post, as to the original posts in this thread - I do have a severely autistic family member (31 year old brother, 4 years younger than I), and we've been to WDW every few years over our entire lives so I've experienced the programs, and watched them change while thinking about what works and what didn't.

Just as a quick background, my brother is a gentle giant (6'2") and basically non-verbal. We're very close yet have never had a conversation with each other. Basic "wants and needs" quick blurbs only. He does have quick, sometimes louder than desired, outbursts, but usually just fist clenching, single quick foot stomps, or the likes to express anger.

Long lines during earlier trips to WDW did trigger some of those outbursts. Telling someone who can't fully understand you to walk 5 feet and then stop for a minute, over and over again, in a dark narrow tunnel (POTC, Splash, HM...etc.) for 45 minutes, will obviously trigger some anger on his behalf as he can't comprehend the "why's" to the whole process. In addition, it was obvious at times that we were disrupting others, or were making people talk about us while we're still in earshot.

When the first program existed (carrying a card that allowed instant access to the rides via handicapped entrance), it obviously was great. I remember my brother could go on his favorites like Splash or ToT basically over and over again, and it was a great for him. We obviously were also very aware each and every time we were about to cut a family about to board a ride, and we always apologized to them the moment they were told to wait one more vehicle. 99% of the time, they saw my brother and were absolutely ok.

When we went ~10 years or so ago and saw that the card now only guarantees a ride entrance equal to the time of the line at the moment, we were all shocked, but also knew it was in response to those people who (saying it lightly) were "stretching the definition of disability", or were abusing the system on Craigslist/elsewhere to use their disability to your advantage by having them join you. This obviously meant we weren't going on Splash 20 times/weekend anymore. But we also recognized it as a fair solution and we've been able to use the app to get other FP's, or at least see if something close had a short wait time to bridge the gap. We also now only go when we think crowds will be lesser (knowing "peak season" now is basically year round, we still try!) so we can maximize our time in the parks.

In my brother's schools and programs, I've been around all sorts of children, all across the spectrum. There is no easy solution because each child's behavioral issues can be unique. WDW needs to paint with a broad brush here, and that's always going to clash with a small minority that it doesn't work for, but understandably are just trying to provide their child a fun vacation. But complexity and loopholes open the doors for abuse and scams.

To @thomas998 above, I'll admit I laughed when I read your post about not taking someone with fears of fish to an aquarium, but it's worth noting that autistic children are also very introverted and screens (TV's, iPads, LeapFrogs, computers...etc.) allow them to isolate themselves while being entertained. It just so happens all those screens are Disney's wheelhouse and they have a presence on every single screen platform you can imagine, so many of these kids are infatuated with Disney characters, thus why they're going to WDW specifically.

TLR - There's no easy answer for WDW. Whatever they do will benefit some and anger others. We've been on both sides of the fence over the last ~25 years. Affected families need to try to make the best of it, and adapt where needed. Those unaffected should also realize that each child is unique and the issues of the families with ACTUAL disabled children may be more complex than you think.

thank you for joining and sharing!

 

[I'mwatchinguWizowski]

Again...I have. If you think it's ok to bring your child somewhere you know is going to cause them psychological pain, than fine. You do you I guess.

Again, clearly you know nothing about autism...it’s far from psychological pain for these kids. They don’t have the social emotional capacity to understand or relate to how it’s unfair that they can’t ride over again...that’s what autism is. It’s far from psychologically damaging to them...it’s their norm. Again learn about autism, it’s what we need in this world.
And let me reiterate again I think the current system is AMAZING and the lawsuit is crazy.

 

[I'mwatchinguWizowski]

"If your child can't handle lines and crowds, it's borderline abusive to take them somewhere that's made up 100% of lines and crowds. Seriously, it's like taking a kid with severe nut allergies on a tour of the Planters factory.

Seriously before you start calling parents abusive...do some research and maybe don’t make such a bold statement and use the word abusive!

 

[I'mwatchinguWizowski]

Hi all,

First post. I've been a lurker here for years until I decided I finally wanted to view/expand posted pictures, so I joined earlier in the year. But this is the topic I finally felt inclined to write my first post, as to the original posts in this thread - I do have a severely autistic family member (31 year old brother, 4 years younger than I), and we've been to WDW every few years over our entire lives so I've experienced the programs, and watched them change while thinking about what works and what didn't.

Just as a quick background, my brother is a gentle giant (6'2") and basically non-verbal. We're very close yet have never had a conversation with each other. Basic "wants and needs" quick blurbs only. He does have quick, sometimes louder than desired, outbursts, but usually just fist clenching, single quick foot stomps, or the likes to express anger.

Long lines during earlier trips to WDW did trigger some of those outbursts. Telling someone who can't fully understand you to walk 5 feet and then stop for a minute, over and over again, in a dark narrow tunnel (POTC, Splash, HM...etc.) for 45 minutes, will obviously trigger some anger on his behalf as he can't comprehend the "why's" to the whole process. In addition, it was obvious at times that we were disrupting others, or were making people talk about us while we're still in earshot.

When the first program existed (carrying a card that allowed instant access to the rides via handicapped entrance), it obviously was great. I remember my brother could go on his favorites like Splash or ToT basically over and over again, and it was a great for him. We obviously were also very aware each and every time we were about to cut a family about to board a ride, and we always apologized to them the moment they were told to wait one more vehicle. 99% of the time, they saw my brother and were absolutely ok.

When we went ~10 years or so ago and saw that the card now only guarantees a ride entrance equal to the time of the line at the moment, we were all shocked, but also knew it was in response to those people who (saying it lightly) were "stretching the definition of disability", or were abusing the system on Craigslist/elsewhere to use their disability to your advantage by having them join you. This obviously meant we weren't going on Splash 20 times/weekend anymore. But we also recognized it as a fair solution and we've been able to use the app to get other FP's, or at least see if something close had a short wait time to bridge the gap. We also now only go when we think crowds will be lesser (knowing "peak season" now is basically year round, we still try!) so we can maximize our time in the parks.

In my brother's schools and programs, I've been around all sorts of children, all across the spectrum. There is no easy solution because each child's behavioral issues can be unique. WDW needs to paint with a broad brush here, and that's always going to clash with a small minority that it doesn't work for, but understandably are just trying to provide their child a fun vacation. But complexity and loopholes open the doors for abuse and scams.

To @thomas998 above, I'll admit I laughed when I read your post about not taking someone with fears of fish to an aquarium, but it's worth noting that autistic children are also very introverted and screens (TV's, iPads, LeapFrogs, computers...etc.) allow them to isolate themselves while being entertained. It just so happens all those screens are Disney's wheelhouse and they have a presence on every single screen platform you can imagine, so many of these kids are infatuated with Disney characters, thus why they're going to WDW specifically.

TLDR - There's no easy answer for WDW. Whatever they do will benefit some and anger others. We've been on both sides of the fence over the last ~25 years. Affected families need to try to make the best of it, and adapt where needed. Those unaffected should also realize that each child is unique and the issues of the families with ACTUAL disabled children may be more complex than you think.

Very beautifully said! Thank you!!

 

[Santa Raccoon 77]

Hi all,

First post. I've been a lurker here for years until I decided I finally wanted to view/expand posted pictures, so I joined earlier in the year. But this is the topic I finally felt inclined to write my first post, as to the original posts in this thread - I do have a severely autistic family member (31 year old brother, 4 years younger than I), and we've been to WDW every few years over our entire lives so I've experienced the programs, and watched them change while thinking about what works and what didn't.

Just as a quick background, my brother is a gentle giant (6'2") and basically non-verbal. We're very close yet have never had a conversation with each other. Basic "wants and needs" quick blurbs only. He does have quick, sometimes louder than desired, outbursts, but usually just fist clenching, single quick foot stomps, or the likes to express anger.

Long lines during earlier trips to WDW did trigger some of those outbursts. Telling someone who can't fully understand you to walk 5 feet and then stop for a minute, over and over again, in a dark narrow tunnel (POTC, Splash, HM...etc.) for 45 minutes, will obviously trigger some anger on his behalf as he can't comprehend the "why's" to the whole process. In addition, it was obvious at times that we were disrupting others, or were making people talk about us while we're still in earshot.

When the first program existed (carrying a card that allowed instant access to the rides via handicapped entrance), it obviously was great. I remember my brother could go on his favorites like Splash or ToT basically over and over again, and it was a great for him. We obviously were also very aware each and every time we were about to cut a family about to board a ride, and we always apologized to them the moment they were told to wait one more vehicle. 99% of the time, they saw my brother and were absolutely ok.

When we went ~10 years or so ago and saw that the card now only guarantees a ride entrance equal to the time of the line at the moment, we were all shocked, but also knew it was in response to those people who (saying it lightly) were "stretching the definition of disability", or were abusing the system on Craigslist/elsewhere to use their disability to your advantage by having them join you. This obviously meant we weren't going on Splash 20 times/weekend anymore. But we also recognized it as a fair solution and we've been able to use the app to get other FP's, or at least see if something close had a short wait time to bridge the gap. We also now only go when we think crowds will be lesser (knowing "peak season" now is basically year round, we still try!) so we can maximize our time in the parks.

In my brother's schools and programs, I've been around all sorts of children, all across the spectrum. There is no easy solution because each child's behavioral issues can be unique. WDW needs to paint with a broad brush here, and that's always going to clash with a small minority that it doesn't work for, but understandably are just trying to provide their child a fun vacation. But complexity and loopholes open the doors for abuse and scams.

To @thomas998 above, I'll admit I laughed when I read your post about not taking someone with fears of fish to an aquarium, but it's worth noting that autistic children are also very introverted and screens (TV's, iPads, LeapFrogs, computers...etc.) allow them to isolate themselves while being entertained. It just so happens all those screens are Disney's wheelhouse and they have a presence on every single screen platform you can imagine, so many of these kids are infatuated with Disney characters, thus why they're going to WDW specifically.

TLDR - There's no easy answer for WDW. Whatever they do will benefit some and anger others. We've been on both sides of the fence over the last ~25 years. Affected families need to try to make the best of it, and adapt where needed. Those unaffected should also realize that each child is unique and the issues of the families with ACTUAL disabled children may be more complex than you think.

 

[Elfinko]

We have a boy on the spectrum - high functioning. We haven't had to use the system, but it's nice to know it's there if we're having a difficult day. I'm not 100% on how it works though. I think Disney could do a better job of informing parents/caregivers of it's existence and how to utilize it. We actually learned about it from a visitor at the park who asked us if we were using it...on our 3rd visit.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Seriously before you start calling parents abusive...do some research and maybe don’t make such a bold statement and use the word abusive!

Tell me how I'm wrong.

If you deliberately torture your child, then you're an abusive parent. If you're not deliberately torturing your child, then my comment doesn't apply to you so you have nothing to worry about.

 

[phillip9698]

Since they have the magic band system can they not just guarantee one fast pass for every ride in the park per day. That way they can skip the line but they can't just ride over and over and over again. Seems like a fair compromise.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Since they have the magic band system can they not just guarantee one fast pass for every ride in the park per day. That way they can skip the line but they can't just ride over and over and over again. Seems like a fair compromise.

No, for a lot of reasons. The biggest one being, an autistic child might not want to ride every ride in the park once per day. They might want to ride Peter Pan's Flight over and over and over again.