Answer to Epic Universe?

[JusticeDisney]

Many lands in EU are rumored to be geared to young families.
I think after it opens WDW will be loosing a BIG chunk of their market share.
Especially if they keep squeezing people and providing less across the board.

We will all find out soon.

Respectfully disagree.

 

[Sir_Cliff]

Disney is still pulling around 70% of market share…

They don’t care as of yet…

Comcast is gonna have to do a lot more than a third park to cut into that to the point of panic…they’d need to get into the 40% range themselves. So they’d have to consolidate their properties…link them up with stuff that can’t be ignored.

So no “panic” on deck.

I also feel a bit like this about it.

Another park offers Universal the opportunity to offer a better vacation package which will inevitably be cheaper than a comparable vacation staying at WDW and will probably be great for hotel occupancy. I have my doubts, though, that Epic Universe will be a game changer that sees people in significant numbers switching from WDW vacations to Universal vacations. I'm even not entirely convinced this will mean much in the way of Disney losing a day of vacation time to Universal. The offering seems more or less like a third version of what's on offer at the other Uni parks, with lands focussed on single-IPs which I'm sure will be well done. It's an issue with Disney's direction, too, in that if you offer multiple versions of the same park there is less of a tendency to feel like you need to see each one instead of just picking which ones have the attractions you most want to do. Something to watch will be how this affects attendance across Uni's parks and whether it's more a question of people re-allocating their Uni time versus their time across both resorts.

This seems more about Universal growing than Disney shrinking in terms of guest numbers, and I suspect Disney won't care if Universal's market share grows as long as their guest numbers aren't affected and their profits keep growing. There was a lot of talk about Disney quaking in their boots about Islands of Adventure at the time, and they more or less ignored it with few issues. Potter's biggest impact seemed to be to wake Disney up to the fact that there is actually money to be made in the theme park business.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Many lands in EU are rumored to be geared to young families.
I think after it opens WDW will be loosing a BIG chunk of their market share.
Especially if they keep squeezing people and providing less across the board.

We will all find out soon.

They won’t

The reality is a lot of people go to wdw because of the label/ reputation…not because the parks are awesome. They built up a huge advantage in familiarity over 30 years and the Bobs have not yet sucked that dry

 

[NickMaio]

They won’t

The reality is a lot of people go to wdw because of the label/ reputation…not because the parks are awesome. They built up a huge advantage in familiarity over 30 years and the Bobs have not yet sucked that dry

By the time EU opens WDW will have showed many of their loyalists what they are about.
Pay more and get much less.

People will go to greener pastures.

 

[Andrew25]

I could see future Orlando vacations going as:
1 Day at IOA/USF. 1 Day at Epic. Transfer to WDW hotel, spend the rest of the day at Epcot. 1 day for both DHS/DAK, and 1 Day at MK.

 

[Poseidon Quest]

They won’t

The reality is a lot of people go to wdw because of the label/ reputation…not because the parks are awesome. They built up a huge advantage in familiarity over 30 years and the Bobs have not yet sucked that dry

I'm not confident that they can keep resting on the name forever though. The reputation of the resort is quickly changing among even the most hardcore Disney fans and if Universal managed to open an exceptional park that creates a lot of buzz as a "must-see", then it could very well convert people over to Universal's now larger sphere of influence. I suppose we'll see, but I believe that this park is quite dangerous to Disney.

 

[Fox&Hound]

I think it also depends on the line-up at Epic Universe. The park hasn't even opened yet and people are claiming it to be a revolutionary park. This may be another disadvantage to giant IP-focused lands. What if Nintendo, HTDYD, HP, and classic monsters aren't your thing? Many can't see past IP. Or, like the case with the Mariokart ride, what if the IP is awesome but the ride is garbage? (No, I haven't ridden it but the videos of the slow moving Mariokart ride miss the boat in every way). If the rides (and IP) are awesome then Universal becomes more of a destination. On our last trip to WDW we carved out one day to tackle HP in both of the Universal parks. It wasn't enough time and left us wanting. Time will tell....For fans of Theme parks, it will be a win win for Universal to succeed in this endeavor, for them, and for Disney who will continue to give us new rides and experiences.

 

[UNCgolf]

I'm not confident that they can keep resting on the name forever though. The reputation of the resort is quickly changing among even the most hardcore Disney fans and if Universal managed to open an exceptional park that creates a lot of buzz as a "must-see", then it could very well convert people over to Universal's now larger sphere of influence. I suppose we'll see, but I believe that this park is quite dangerous to Disney.

The problem for Universal is IP. Epic Universe is definitely helped there by Nintendo and a new Harry Potter area, but as long as Disney has the market mostly cornered (there are exceptions) on movies for kids, it's going to be the default place to go for the general public.

 

[Sir_Cliff]

The problem for Universal is IP. Epic Universe is definitely helped there by Nintendo and a new Harry Potter area, but as long as Disney has the market mostly cornered (there are exceptions) on movies for kids, it's going to be the default place to go for the general public.

This wouldn't have entirely addressed the issue as I guess the lands would almost certainly have all been IP-based, but I think Universal would have been wise to try harder at giving this new park a distinct identity. Islands of Adventure has a unique name and at least a recognisable concept behind it. The name for this one more or less reads as

Disney's doing their best to undermine them, but the bones of WDW are still a lot stronger than Universal and I think Universal Orlando still has a way to go to really challenge the notion of WDW as the premium theme park destination. The hype around this park reminds me of the hype around Velocicoster. I'm sure it's a fun ride and it's certainly impressive they could get this done so quickly while Disney spends years (and counting) building some Moana-themed water features. It still plays to Uni's existing strengths without really hitting Disney where it hurts, though. The Potter lands are the closest they have managed to that so far.

 

[WishIWasRetired]

In order for Universal to have any chance they need to get away from the jerky screen-based rides and come up with some high-capacity family type rides like pirates and haunted mansion.

 

[Marc Davis Fan]

Disney's market share has declined substantially with the rise of Universal. In particular, Disney underestimated the money/effort/talent that Universal would put into Harry Potter, as well as the resulting public attention that Universal would receive.

In the short-term, Disney is alright because of its name, especially when it comes to families with young children. But that can change in the coming decades, as more people visit both WDW and Universal during their Orlando vacations, and return with more favorable reviews of Universal.

As a consequence, in order to maintain brand loyalty and thus longterm market share, WDW needs a multibillion-dollar expansion of the place that is inevitably (even if unjustifiably) their flagship park, the one that Orlando visitors will remember as "Disney"—The Magic Kingdom. Disney needs to think at the level of DisneySea's Fantasy Springs (in both scale and quality), to develop lands that completely blow guests away and increase park capacity / improve crowd-flow. There is land available for doing just that: to the north of Rivers of America, to the west of Adventureland, within/surrounding Tomorrowland...

Oh, and removal can be as valuable as addition: It's time to review The Magic Kingdom's lands and remove aesthetics/immersion-breaking features. Goodbye, Tomorrowland Stage. Goodbye, Aladdin's Magic Carpets. And so on.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

The name for this one more or less reads as

Fantastic Worlds was the original, and better name IMO.

Too bad Warner Brothers didn't like it.

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

I think it's worth considering - and it's possible that this has been mentioned, and also possible that it proves to be way off base - that Epic Universe may cause the problem that Disney has historically had with gates 3+, where they cannibalize attendance from their existing gates.

I'm sure there will be some people who see Epic Universe as a great excuse to take one of their vacation days from Disney and give it to Universal instead, but I think we forget that there will also be people who either consolidate Universal Studios and Islands of Adventure into one day or simply choose to forgo one park altogether.

It seems clear that Epic Universe is Universal taking a swipe at Disney's market share, hoping to steal another day from guest's time at Disney. It doesn't necessarily seem like it's them making an effort to court a portion of the theme park-going audience that isn't currently interested in their offerings. But people only have so much vacation time, so they aren't likely to add a day to their trip they weren't already spending. Having more parks across which to budget the same amount of time is more likely to mean skipping something - and I think it's a real possibility that people will just modify how they spend their time at the resort rather than extend it.

Disney learned this the hard way and I wonder if Universal is about to repeat that history.

 

[Jrb1979]

I think it's worth considering - and it's possible that this has been mentioned, and also possible that it proves to be way off base - that Epic Universe may cause the problem that Disney has historically had with gates 3+, where they cannibalize attendance from their existing gates.

I'm sure there will be some people who see Epic Universe as a great excuse to take one of their vacation days from Disney and give it to Universal instead, but I think we forget that there will also be people who either consolidate Universal Studios and Islands of Adventure into one day or simply choose to forgo one park altogether.

It seems clear that Epic Universe is Universal taking a swipe at Disney's market share, hoping to steal another day from guest's time at Disney. It doesn't necessarily seem like it's them making an effort to court a portion of the theme park-going audience that isn't currently interested in their offerings. But people only have so much vacation time, so they aren't likely to add a day to their trip they weren't already spending. Having more parks across which to budget the same amount of time is more likely to mean skipping something - and I think it's a real possibility that people will just modify how they spend their time at the resort rather than extend it.

Disney learned this the hard way and I wonder if Universal is about to repeat that history.

It's possible but I think what I will do is get people to stay multiple days more often at Universal. Maybe people will do less days at Disney instead. There is already many loyal Disney fans that have switched to going to Universal instead.

 

[NickMaio]

I think it's worth considering - and it's possible that this has been mentioned, and also possible that it proves to be way off base - that Epic Universe may cause the problem that Disney has historically had with gates 3+, where they cannibalize attendance from their existing gates.

I'm sure there will be some people who see Epic Universe as a great excuse to take one of their vacation days from Disney and give it to Universal instead, but I think we forget that there will also be people who either consolidate Universal Studios and Islands of Adventure into one day or simply choose to forgo one park altogether.

It seems clear that Epic Universe is Universal taking a swipe at Disney's market share, hoping to steal another day from guest's time at Disney. It doesn't necessarily seem like it's them making an effort to court a portion of the theme park-going audience that isn't currently interested in their offerings. But people only have so much vacation time, so they aren't likely to add a day to their trip they weren't already spending. Having more parks across which to budget the same amount of time is more likely to mean skipping something - and I think it's a real possibility that people will just modify how they spend their time at the resort rather than extend it.

Disney learned this the hard way and I wonder if Universal is about to repeat that history.

If Uni is smart they will be creating a park just like the MK. Catering to low or no hight requirements. With a few thrill rides here and there.

If they do this they will be grabbing a major chunk of market share away from WDW.
That is direction I think they are going.

2 parks are already packed with thrill rides and coasters. This is what they need. Families with little ones will flock there because it's new and you don't need to have your phone glued to your head to have a great time.

 

[Married5Times]

There is one devastating factor at play here that will prevent any chance of Universal legitimately going head to head with Disney in Orlando: geography


a company's intangible assets portfolio can change via acquisition and/or creation and the coolest attractions imaginable can be built but Universal is stuck with geography problem and it's HUGE. Universal will not have a bubble with its 'split campus' approach.

 

[JoeCamel]

There is one devastating factor at play here that will prevent any chance of Universal legitimately going head to head with Disney in Orlando: geography


a company's intangible assets portfolio can change via acquisition and/or creation and the coolest attractions imaginable can be built but Universal is stuck with geography problem and it's HUGE. Universal will not have a bubble with its 'split campus' approach.

How long is the bus ride from AKL to the MK?
How long is the ride from UOR to EU?
Uber killed the "bubble" long ago, I can walk to 192 from AKL in a reasonable amount of time, not much separation.
I think they will manage

 

[Married5Times]

How long is the bus ride from AKL to the MK?
How long is the ride from UOR to EU?

I have not looked at the specific distances or times for travel but that is not the point whatsoever .......... it's not the distance/time at play here; it's a lack of encapsulating an audience or more specifically holding a family's attention. The outside world will distract and ultimately impact family vacationing in the aggregate. Disney even with an inferior product will continue to hold families far easier, thus enjoying longer visits.

at the micro-level(specific vacationers) I certainly see where you're going here and your be right but you're way off on the macro impact

 

[NickMaio]

There is one devastating factor at play here that will prevent any chance of Universal legitimately going head to head with Disney in Orlando: geography


a company's intangible assets portfolio can change via acquisition and/or creation and the coolest attractions imaginable can be built but Universal is stuck with geography problem and it's HUGE. Universal will not have a bubble with its 'split campus' approach.

As long as they provide transportation, I really don't see any difference to WDWs 4 parks.
Each park is so spread out you can't walk to any of them.
Let's not forget that it can take 40-60 mins just to get to MKs turnstiles after you park your car.
That's some geography.

 

[NickMaio]

I have not looked at the specific distances or times for travel but that is not the point whatsoever .......... it's not the distance/time at play here; it's a lack of encapsulating an audience or more specifically holding a family's attention. The outside world will distract and ultimately impact family vacationing in the aggregate. Disney even with an inferior product will continue to hold families far easier, thus enjoying longer visits.

at the micro-level(specific vacationers) I certainly see where you're going here and your be right but you're way off on the macro impact

Sorry but I don't agree with your point at all.
There are 7 separate bubbles on wdw property. Not counting resorts.
Also it's not even close to complete, so I don't know how you can say that Epic won't be able to create a vacation bubble for families?