Stevek
Well-Known Member
Looks nice. Might have to visit it a couple times a year when the Kings come to town to beat the Ducks
(ugh, I miss hockey)
-
Welcome to the WDWMAGIC.COM Forums!
Please take a look around, and feel free to sign up and join the community.
Angels tell Anaheim they're opting out of their lease on Angel Stadium
- Thread starter Jiggsawpuzzle35
- Start date
(ugh, I miss hockey)
Stevek
Well-Known Member
Angels owner’s stadium plan adds 2 hotels, 5-acre park, offices and housing
The much anticipated plan lays out a vision for the 153-acre stadium site as a community with homes and offices, shopping, dining and other entertainment – and it reserves “flex space” …www.ocregister.com
Both this and the Ducks proposal really do make use of all the land in the area but come off as a bit of a hot mess...soooooo much going on in those pics. That being said, if they can pull it off, great. 2050 for final completion is a long, long time.
TP2000
Well-Known Member
I will say this about OC Vibe... I hope they keep this as a cohesive development with a unified design language. It's got the same type of density and height as the Platinum Triangle developments on the other side of the freeway, but...
Anaheim's planning commission has proven they can't really be trusted to create attractive semi-dense spaces like this.
One drive down Katella Avenue after nearly 15 years of development in the struggling Platinum Triangle proves that unattractive truth. It's just a long, endless megablock of cheesy 4 story apartment buildings; no style, no life, no community, no personality. Better than a pile of dirt? Sure. But it's not pretty and it's not enticing.
Anaheim literally bulldozed all of this land and started from scratch, with deep pocketed developers, and this is what they got for all their years of "planning" and "governmental guidance".
Anaheim's planning commission has proven they can't really be trusted to create attractive semi-dense spaces like this.
One drive down Katella Avenue after nearly 15 years of development in the struggling Platinum Triangle proves that unattractive truth. It's just a long, endless megablock of cheesy 4 story apartment buildings; no style, no life, no community, no personality. Better than a pile of dirt? Sure. But it's not pretty and it's not enticing.
Anaheim literally bulldozed all of this land and started from scratch, with deep pocketed developers, and this is what they got for all their years of "planning" and "governmental guidance".
I‘m sure they figured out the whole parking thing. Seems like they will be building a lot of parking structures around the area. I have season tickets and I park in the business park near Cerritos for free so I’m one of the ones that don’t mind walking an extra 10/15 minutes. They used the guy who use to work for the Irvine Company developing the Spectrum and the area around it. This complex appears to be geared towards locals like the Spectrum. Downtown Disney and Gardenwalk are geared towards tourists. H&S Ventures manages Artic now so you will see them adding more game day specific metro link trains and amtrak trains. Whenever I visit Staples or T Mobile Arena, I’m always envious of their entertainment complex. We have some micro brews, del taco, McDonald’s, Carls jr, and JT Schmidt’s. This place will be a game changer and the Ducks will finally get at All Star game. It will be nice for the foreign tourist to visit during the olympics when Honda Center host volleybal.
Phroobar
Well-Known Member
It looks like Soviet era block housing with palm trees. Why would anyone want to live there?I will say this about OC Vibe... I hope they keep this as a cohesive development with a unified design language. It's got the same type of density and height as the Platinum Triangle developments on the other side of the freeway, but...
Anaheim's planning commission has proven they can't really be trusted to create attractive semi-dense spaces like this.
One drive down Katella Avenue after nearly 15 years of development in the struggling Platinum Triangle proves that unattractive truth. It's just a long, endless megablock of cheesy 4 story apartment buildings; no style, no life, no community, no personality. Better than a pile of dirt? Sure. But it's not pretty and it's not enticing.
Anaheim literally bulldozed all of this land and started from scratch, with deep pocketed developers, and this is what they got for all their years of "planning" and "governmental guidance".
Darkbeer1
Well-Known Member
Finished by 2028 for the Olympics. The Angels can try and get some Olympic funding to help build a new stadium.
Darkbeer1
Well-Known Member
Premier Mixed-Use Community/Live Entertainment District Coming to Anaheim | Anaheim Ducks
Proposed development will create 13,000 jobs and $2 billion in economic impact
www.nhl.com
Both our teams are on rebuilds now. Im ok with us tanking another season to get another lottery pick.Looks nice. Might have to visit it a couple times a year when the Kings come to town to beat the Ducks
What do you mean by that ? Baseball would be played at Chavez Ravine and not here. How would they be able to get money ?
TP2000
Well-Known Member
That's the part of this story that makes me visibly cringe. The 2028 Olympics.
I hope Anaheim isn't falling into a trap so many other cities fall into... The Olympics Are Coming!
If Mr. Samueli or Anaheim politicians use the excuse "The Olympics Are Coming!" as a reason why OC Vibe needs to happen, that is a very bad sign that the business case doesn't actually exist for this OC Vibe development.
So they spend way too much tax money on facilities and developments solely because for two weeks in August of '28 there will be some volleyball games held in the Honda Center? And then a year later, after the Olympics have sucked up all the tax money and moved on to their next victim, Anaheim is left with Olympic! developments that look like this...
Rio's Abandoned 2016 Olympic Park
Olympic Fountain in Beautiful Downtown Sochi - One Year After The Games
Charming Pyeongchang Olympic Village - But in 2019 instead of 2018.
Obviously the Honda Center is already a viable concern, and won't devolve into the usual Olympics ruins after the games are over. But I don't think Anaheim should do anything more than put up a few festive banners on street lamps and maybe send a few of those retired Goodwill Ambassadors in red vests to walk the area and direct tourists to the nearest Starbucks.
Spending a dime of taxpayer money on the Olympics is criminal at this point, especially with Anaheim facing a decade-long collapse of tax revenues due to the Covid-19 economic depression inflicted on the Anaheim Resort District.
Last edited:
The Owners of the Ducks are paying for this whole project. That’s why councilman Moreno has never once opposed anything the Ducks have done. Heck, they even had him at a game last year. I was the only one who booed him. I believe Beijing is also getting the Winter Olympics so they will be reusing the stadium again.That's the part of this story that makes me visibly cringe. The 2028 Olympics.
I hope Anaheim isn't falling into a trap so many other cities fall into... The Olympics Are Coming!
If Mr. Samueli or Anaheim politicians use the excuse "The Olympics Are Coming!" as a reason why OC Vibe needs to happen, that is a very bad sign that the business case doesn't actually exist for this OC Vibe development.
So they spend way too much tax money on facilities and developments solely because for two weeks in August of '28 there will be some volleyball games held in the Honda Center? And then a year later, after the Olympics have sucked up all the tax money and moved on to their next victim, Anaheim is left with Olympic! developments that look like this...
Rio's Abandoned 2016 Olympic Park
Olympic Fountain in Beautiful Downtown Sochi - One Year After The Games
Obviously the Honda Center is already a viable concern, and won't devolve into the usual Olympics ruins after the games are over. But I don't think Anaheim should do anything more than put up a few festive banners on street lamps and maybe send a few of those retired Goodwill Ambassadors in red vests to walk the area and direct tourists to the nearest Starbucks.
Spending a dime of taxpayer money on the Olympics is criminal at this point, especially with Anaheim facing a decades long collapse of tax revenues due to the Covid-19 economic depression inflicted on the Anaheim Resort District.
Darkbeer1
Well-Known Member
So EVERY game in the Baseball competition would be held there? Not very likely. A second Venue is needed for the first few rounds of games. Maybe even a semi-final.
I do remember attending the Baseball Exhibition final at Chavez Ravine in 1984. Was given an awesome seat right above the 3rd base dugout. Had a wonderful chat with this very big baseball fan. Somewhat elderly. It was only when her husband sat down that I found out she was Ethel Arnold, Mayor Bradley's wife.
No wonder there was a bunch of security around...
The Mayor quickly said to me, when she went for a break, that she really enjoyed talking baseball with me....
TP2000
Well-Known Member
Thank you for booing that Socialist bozo! That's hysterical!
I agree, this is wonderful that Mr. Samueli is financing this project himself and not going to the public trough.
But OC Vibe just seems to duplicate entertainment concepts already found within a 3 mile radius of this property, and housing concepts found on empty land zoned for apartments within walking distance of this site.
Is there a market for another massive Food Hall in Anaheim like the Packing House, even with GardenWalk collapsed and abandoned and Downtown Disney semi-vacant? Perhaps. Does Anaheim need another flexible 6,000 seat theater space, even with the Anaheim Arena and The Grove and House of Blues and Anaheim Convention Center nearby? Perhaps. Will the railroads happily agree to give up their customer's convenient surface parking right in front of the train station so a sprawling Yoga Park can be built there instead? Perhaps.
And again, because Mr. Samueli wants to do this with his own money and his own organization, he should be allowed to take that business risk.
But when backers and politicians start throwing around stuff like Because the Olympics... that sends up huge warning flags that OC Vibe is wasteful and unnecessary and no workable business case currently exists for the project.
I trust Mr. Samueli knows that is not the case and he has a workable business case for OC Vibe, even without two weeks of volleyball games in August, 2028.
choco choco
Well-Known Member
I will say this about OC Vibe... I hope they keep this as a cohesive development with a unified design language. It's got the same type of density and height as the Platinum Triangle developments on the other side of the freeway, but...
Anaheim's planning commission has proven they can't really be trusted to create attractive semi-dense spaces like this.
One drive down Katella Avenue after nearly 15 years of development in the struggling Platinum Triangle proves that unattractive truth. It's just a long, endless megablock of cheesy 4 story apartment buildings; no style, no life, no community, no personality. Better than a pile of dirt? Sure. But it's not pretty and it's not enticing.
Anaheim literally bulldozed all of this land and started from scratch, with deep pocketed developers, and this is what they got for all their years of "planning" and "governmental guidance".
This is because the way we build cities is all wrong. Great cities are built at a micro-level, where a diverse number of people are given small plots of land close to one another and each builds a specific building to match the owner's desired function, and over time a cityscape of variety emerges. Different buildings spaced closely together. Different functions spaced closely together. Each person can afford to put good care into their small fiefdom, and when everybody does that together a mosaic results, and the city becomes a beautiful, varied, stimulating neighborhood.
Instead what happens now is we hand over obscene chunks of land to a single developer, who himself has to stre(-eeeeettttt-)tttcch the budget over too much square footage (or in this case hundreds of acres) and ends up going with the cheapest option that can end up with the most space, and so we get these ugly stucco, cheap facade, cookie cutter* design of buildings.
The better idea would have been for Anaheim to split the whole into smaller parcels and sell them off individually, so that a city - a real city, not a homogenous nightmare utopia - starts coming into being. Probably faster this way too, since we don't have to wait for a developer to somehow find billions of dollars (a process that takes decades) in order to finance these things.
*In architectural parlance, these building are called five-over-one. Essentially, they are the most cost effective ratio of maximum square footage for cheapest cost. Any higher and potential profit per square feet is lowered by the extra engineering (ex. seismic, infracture, etc...) that goes into it. Any lower and you haven't maximized the the habitable area that can be built on one spot. It is forever a debate in architectural circles about whether the desperate need for housing in Southern California is offset by ugly five-over-ones popping up everywhere.
I like the idea of Anaheim hosting some baseball games, but I believe some of the other games will be held at smaller stadiums like the surrounding college baseball stadiums. Olympic baseball is made up of amateur players so it wont be a big draw unless MLB has some sort of agreement. I heard in years pass, they might have softball instead at Angel Stadium. Hypothetically, how much money can the Angels get from the Olympic funds For a new stadium ?
Nirya
Well-Known Member
That's the part of this story that makes me visibly cringe. The 2028 Olympics.
I hope Anaheim isn't falling into a trap so many other cities fall into... The Olympics Are Coming!
If Mr. Samueli or Anaheim politicians use the excuse "The Olympics Are Coming!" as a reason why OC Vibe needs to happen, that is a very bad sign that the business case doesn't actually exist for this OC Vibe development.
So they spend way too much tax money on facilities and developments solely because for two weeks in August of '28 there will be some volleyball games held in the Honda Center? And then a year later, after the Olympics have sucked up all the tax money and moved on to their next victim, Anaheim is left with Olympic! developments that look like this...
Rio's Abandoned 2016 Olympic Park
Olympic Fountain in Beautiful Downtown Sochi - One Year After The Games
Charming Pyeongchang Olympic Village - But in 2019 instead of 2018.
Obviously the Honda Center is already a viable concern, and won't devolve into the usual Olympics ruins after the games are over. But I don't think Anaheim should do anything more than put up a few festive banners on street lamps and maybe send a few of those retired Goodwill Ambassadors in red vests to walk the area and direct tourists to the nearest Starbucks.
Spending a dime of taxpayer money on the Olympics is criminal at this point, especially with Anaheim facing a decade-long collapse of tax revenues due to the Covid-19 economic depression inflicted on the Anaheim Resort District.
While I agree with you in general that cities should stop going into debt to host the Olympics only to watch those buildings go into disrepair quickly afterwards, Los Angeles is one of the few cities in the world that already has the infrastructure in place to host the Olympics. Consider they have:
LA Coliseum (aka Olympic Stadium already built)
Rose Bowl
SoFi Stadium
Staples Center
New Clippers Stadium in Inglewood
Dignity Heath Sports Park (the former StubHub Center)
Honda Center
Dodger Stadium
Angel Stadium
Facilities at UCLA (including Pauley Pavilion and Drake Stadium, plus the dorms which have been used as the Olympic Village in the past)
Facilities at USC (including Gaylen Center)
Other colleges (LBSU, UCI as examples)
Beaches
Point is, the city is one of the few cities that really doesn’t need to build things to host the Olympics. At most, some of the places (like Honda Center) might use the Olympics as a good deadline to make improvements.
Darkbeer1
Well-Known Member
In reality, not much, but still a few Million is a few Million.
It depends on how much the LA Olympic Committee has raised, and how much influence the IOC over its spending. They have always pushed for venue spending.
ocVIBE might also get funding, especially with ARTIC and MetroLink being part of the project. It is also where Anaheim can get grants for, reducing traffic during the Olympics, and beyond.
Lol I only knew who he was because I follow this message board and have built up a hatred of him over the years. I don’t know about anyone else, but I enjoy going to the Packing House before I go to a Ducks game, but the time I end up getting back, the free parking near Cerritos is all gone. Fans from other teams always complain about Anaheim because there is nothing to do around the arena. Eat, drink, hangout, thats the stuff you see in Los Angeles, Las Vegas, and Boston, but not Anaheim. The food hall, restaurants, and large theatre will be a game changer. As a local,I would rather come here than Gardenwalk or Downtown Disney. Heck I’d take the extra 15/20 minutes to come here than the Irvine Spectrum which is 15 minutes from me. I personally think the only flaw with this project is that it doesn’t have a larger hotel with a huge convention space.Thank you for booing that Socialist bozo! That's hysterical!
I agree, this is wonderful that Mr. Samueli is financing this project himself and not going to the public trough.
But OC Vibe just seems to duplicate entertainment concepts already found within a 3 mile radius of this property, and housing concepts found on empty land zoned for apartments within walking distance of this site.
Is there a market for another massive Food Hall in Anaheim like the Packing House, even with GardenWalk collapsed and abandoned and Downtown Disney semi-vacant? Perhaps. Does Anaheim need another flexible 6,000 seat theater space, even with the Anaheim Arena and The Grove and House of Blues and Anaheim Convention Center nearby? Perhaps. Will the railroads happily agree to give up their customer's convenient surface parking right in front of the train station so a sprawling Yoga Park can be built there instead? Perhaps.
And again, because Mr. Samueli wants to do this with his own money and his own organization, he should be allowed to take that business risk.
But when backers and politicians start throwing around stuff like Because the Olympics... that sends up huge warning flags that OC Vibe is wasteful and unnecessary and no workable business case currently exists for the project.
I trust Mr. Samueli knows that is not the case and he has a workable business case for OC Vibe, even without two weeks of volleyball games in August, 2028.
This makes a lot of sense. Thanks again for all these insightful info you give us pertaining to local city politics.
Stevek
Well-Known Member
I thought what I read yesterday was that the Angels project, including everything besides the stadium, would be done by 2050. Did I read wrong?