brb1006
Well-Known Member
It doesn't matter, the ending explaining his death still made me well up! At least they showed various audio news about his death from countries around the world and showed the Disneyland flag going half staff that day.
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American Experience: Walt Disney on PBS Sept. 14-15
- Thread starter VJ
- Start date
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
What exactly about the last 15 years would someone not want told?
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disney4life2008
Well-Known Member
Finally a discussion about a song in the south!
Californian Elitist
Well-Known Member
I enjoyed the second part very much. In saying that, I did find the first part more interesting because it was the beginnings. Most of the second part went over Walt's love of trains and Disneyland, both of which I know about, especially Disneyland. I'm not saying it was boring (I always love history in regards to my beloved Disneyland), but I already knew what was discussed and had seen most of the footage. I actually learned a lot of information in the first part, making it more interesting for me. The first part also felt slower paced, which I liked.
A lot of things could have been discussed, but overall, I really liked this documentary. Just goes to show a Disney history lesson could be its own course. Definitely going to try and hit up Disneyland next week and consider taking a 45 minute plane ride to San Francisco sometime next spring to see the museum.
A lot of things could have been discussed, but overall, I really liked this documentary. Just goes to show a Disney history lesson could be its own course. Definitely going to try and hit up Disneyland next week and consider taking a 45 minute plane ride to San Francisco sometime next spring to see the museum.
tonganprince
Well-Known Member
I thought part 1 was better. I thought I would connect with part 2 more. Still very good. Wish they gave us a little more about the Florida stuff.
216bruce
Well-Known Member
Overall...good job. I didn't expect to learn much as far as facts, figures, dates, etc. from the doc but was hoping for , and got, a fair look at the man. There's no way you can explore in-depth everything he had his hand in over four hours. The 1964 Worlds Fair wasn't even mentioned, for example. I didn't "like" how he was portrayed during the strike and the Hollywood hearings, but fair is fair. The only sticking point for me was "Song of the South". I still don't think that the film is intentionally racist or demeaning, but maybe that's just me.
I think we need to realize that the target audience of the program was people who were aware of Walt but hadn't read a book on him or explored much into his career and accomplishments or were too young to have been around during his lifetime. It was a primer of sorts as far as 'what he did' and 'who he was'. When you profile someone, which was the intent of the program, you tread on shaky ground- trying to be fair, looking at what made him tick and still inform the viewer as to facts and ultimately strike a balance between the two goals. True Disney historians have mixed feelings about the program and I get that, but the film wasn't made to be a video textbook and getting into an analysis of him is inherently risky and leaves you open for criticism no matter what your final profile of him is.
Visually...fantastic. I sat there just stunned with footage I hadn't seen before...so kudos to the producer/director for digging deep and unearthing some great, great stuff. Just time well spent and thanks!
I think we need to realize that the target audience of the program was people who were aware of Walt but hadn't read a book on him or explored much into his career and accomplishments or were too young to have been around during his lifetime. It was a primer of sorts as far as 'what he did' and 'who he was'. When you profile someone, which was the intent of the program, you tread on shaky ground- trying to be fair, looking at what made him tick and still inform the viewer as to facts and ultimately strike a balance between the two goals. True Disney historians have mixed feelings about the program and I get that, but the film wasn't made to be a video textbook and getting into an analysis of him is inherently risky and leaves you open for criticism no matter what your final profile of him is.
Visually...fantastic. I sat there just stunned with footage I hadn't seen before...so kudos to the producer/director for digging deep and unearthing some great, great stuff. Just time well spent and thanks!
216bruce
Well-Known Member
The museum is fantastic. We are going to SF next year (Spring too) again just to spend more time there. You will LOVE it!
prberk
Well-Known Member
I agree with you, Bruce. Especially about it being visually stunning. I like the fact that nearly everything was sparkling in HD. The company must have made sure that they had restored every piece of film to HD quality, with a new print if it were still on film, before giving it to them, or PBS did it. (I think Disney has been doing that with most of its film for a while.) But even the archival footage beyond the feature films or shorts was sparkling.
I also agree that there was just more than they could do in four hours.
They kind of touched on the World's Fair in showing the Carousel of Progress film that Walt had made for the executives at General Electric, its Fair sponsor; but I think that the World's Fair was so seminal an event for Walt -- with his development of the Lincoln AA for it and its great influence on his parks and later EPCOT (with its philosophy of showcasing and encouraging positive things from industry) -- that I thought it should have been shown and explained.
As for Song of the South's portrayal, I thought it interesting that the producers showed that he had reached out to people for their interpretation on how he should proceed with it - then they said that he went with his gut. I have criticized that way before, and it has irked me sometimes, because people have not understood that I really considered their opinion in determining what "my gut" ultimately said. Just because I did not do what someone suggested does not mean that I had not considered it. It seems he may have been the same way in this situation. In seeking different opinions, though, you might or might not use them, and the doc seemed to indicate that some folks may have felt their opinions were ignored. Not sure, but it was made clear that Walt seemed to want this legendary story to be presented and felt it had something positive to offer taken from history; he checked his gut on how to present it. He could have chosen to ignore it and do something with less potential for controversy or misunderstanding. I feel like it was courageous, though, to go with his gut on doing the film and presenting the legends according to it; and I ulimately think they presented it that way, fairly I think. I think he worked within an historical context and within legend to present what he felt was a good to story that gave people hope that the underdog could succeed, despite the worst odds.
Finally, it talked about his awareness of his legacy. And it implied sometimes that it could border on narcissism -- like he thought just so much of himself and his legacy. I think it was more positive than that. I think, of course, he had pride in his product and wanted, after Oswald, to have control. But as time grew on and his name became synonymous with the product, he felt an obligation to it -- to make a positive difference and not to be associated with negative. This is not so much narcissism as it is awareness of the impact on others of one's legacy -- not just creating a legacy for its own sake. It reminds me a little of the concept that the Bible teaches of being a "witness" -- being aware of how your actions might be interpreted for impact and leaving a legacy. But as with anyone aware of leaving a legacy, overblown pride can be a temptation in that legacy also.
Overall, again, I think the special was fair and well-done. It also shows me that maybe six hours might have been a better length for it-- but even that is testament to the impact on art and business and culture that this man had.
Magenta Panther
Well-Known Member
I haven't seen the specials yet, but I wonder if it put Walt's reaction to the strike in context. Because in point of fact, the strike took place when the Disney studio was in trouble. After the incredible high of Snow White, Walt found that everything he'd built was beginning to crumble. Pinocchio and Fantasia were relative failures (in fact, when he was awarded a special Oscar for Fantasia, Walt said of it: "Everybody makes mistakes. Fantasia was mine."), plus Walt had spent a lot of Snow White money on a new studio he built especially for his artists. He wanted it to be a worker's paradise (his father WAS a Socialist, after all), and a paradise it was, especially compared to other animation studios (Warner Bros.' studio wasn't nicknamed "Termite Terrace" for nothing). How many places of employment, even today, have waiters that will bring food to your office, for instance? So when the strike happened, Walt took it too personally and felt his animators had unfairly turned against him. It was a dark period, but there's no evidence Walt disliked unions because of greed on his part. He saw them as an engine of betrayal, and he never really got over it.
POLY LOVER
Well-Known Member
Funny I saw that part about Fantasia. Its funny how sometimes movies that were considered failures when releaed grow in time to be classics. In another life I managed movie theatres and we had a standing midnight showing of Fantasia every saturday night at midnight at our flagship location. Yep, it was a cult thing with the college kids but we filled a 1150 seat theatre most times. People just loved the art and music aspects, so Walt you did not fail there is a large generation of people that loved and appreciated it.
216bruce
Well-Known Member
Playing devils advocate here. Regarding the strike. Put yourself in the place of the in-betweeners, assistant animators, new guys in the department, ink and paint girls, camera department folks, etc...you've just moved into a "workers paradise" that cost a relative fortune. Beautiful facility, some of the folks are making a GREAT buck for the time but, as stated in the doc, you can't afford to eat in the cafeteria, can't access the rooftop club and couldn't afford it even if you could, you worked around the clock to get "Snow White" finished. It gets done, money pours in and you are still broke. Bonuses were handed out rather selectively and without any apparent scale.Purely subjectively. I can see why they were disgruntled and frustrated especially when it was implied, if not stated by Walt that the success would be shared. It wasn't with everybody in a direct, pay your bills sense. That's why unions exist to a large degree, or at least why they should (they aren't without fault by any means).
There's a saying in the TV business that I've heard for years at every level and it translates perfectly here to this situation. "Don't alienate your crew. They can make you or break you." Walt alienated much of his crew and they broke him...at least for a while.
He's still an amazing man, but I sure get why they did what they did.
disney4life2008
Well-Known Member
I did enjoy that - it was never seen before. It really showed how much of an international impact he had.
disney4life2008
Well-Known Member
I said 15 minutes and I wanted more discussion about other things not just his death. I wanted to hear more about disney world but I guess given he never saw disney world it made sense to end that way. It was sad but had they shown the crying mickey cartoon I would have been balling.
Californian Elitist
Well-Known Member
I forgot to mention I went to Disneyland on July 17th this year to celebrate the 60th birthday, and it was hotter than blue blazes (I got a really horrible tan from that day). I can't imagine it being that hot and having to walk on melting cement.
ShoalFox
Well-Known Member
- In the Parks
- Yes
And don't forget the non-functional water fountains! But hey, you could just buy a Pepsi Cola.
Figments Friend
Well-Known Member
Well I just spent the last four hours watching this two part special online while relaxing at home.
I was encouraged to do so by a friend, who was wondering if I had seen it.
So my interest was sparked, and decided I should probably give it a look in.
What did I think of it..?
Well, for the most part..it was enjoyable.
Lots of great early footage in great condition / quality.
Some interesting insights into a few things.
There were some things I did'nt agree with in particular in how they were presented, and at a couple of points it seemed a alternative opinion was being stressed ( perhaps one not in tune with the truth ) .
For the most part however, it was well worth investing the time to watch.
I think the two aspects of the program that stick out for me, and immediately come to mind as 'issues' for me personally were the impressions I got regarding how Walt seemed to treat his Burbank studio employees.
During the animators strike, the vibe I was getting from how the story was being told left the impression that Walt was this 'tyrant boss' that kind of blew off the issues and concerns his employees were having at that time - low pay, no credit, studio perks, etc.
Of course every workforce before and after is going to voice concerns and grumble about feeling short changed, but in the context of this program it seemed to paint Walt as someone not very appreciative of his workers efforts.
Now wether or not that is true, I have no real way of knowing...but it raised an eyebrow for me in the context of the show.
The other aspect that I thought was a missed opportunity was covering the topic of WED Enterprises.
Now that could just be the WED-head in me coming out...but they touched a lot on different times when Walt would 'escape' the real world on various vacations and the like but not talk about how he also used WED in this way as well.
Thought that could have been included, and it of course would be a great excuse to spend a little more time on the topic of a place Walt really enjoyed having some play time in.
It was still a good overview of his story...not starting out quite like I expected, but entertaining none the less.
For those wanting to watch, the entire four hour, two part series is up on PBS.org to view.
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I was encouraged to do so by a friend, who was wondering if I had seen it.
So my interest was sparked, and decided I should probably give it a look in.
What did I think of it..?
Well, for the most part..it was enjoyable.
Lots of great early footage in great condition / quality.
Some interesting insights into a few things.
There were some things I did'nt agree with in particular in how they were presented, and at a couple of points it seemed a alternative opinion was being stressed ( perhaps one not in tune with the truth ) .
For the most part however, it was well worth investing the time to watch.
I think the two aspects of the program that stick out for me, and immediately come to mind as 'issues' for me personally were the impressions I got regarding how Walt seemed to treat his Burbank studio employees.
During the animators strike, the vibe I was getting from how the story was being told left the impression that Walt was this 'tyrant boss' that kind of blew off the issues and concerns his employees were having at that time - low pay, no credit, studio perks, etc.
Of course every workforce before and after is going to voice concerns and grumble about feeling short changed, but in the context of this program it seemed to paint Walt as someone not very appreciative of his workers efforts.
Now wether or not that is true, I have no real way of knowing...but it raised an eyebrow for me in the context of the show.
The other aspect that I thought was a missed opportunity was covering the topic of WED Enterprises.
Now that could just be the WED-head in me coming out...but they touched a lot on different times when Walt would 'escape' the real world on various vacations and the like but not talk about how he also used WED in this way as well.
Thought that could have been included, and it of course would be a great excuse to spend a little more time on the topic of a place Walt really enjoyed having some play time in.
It was still a good overview of his story...not starting out quite like I expected, but entertaining none the less.
For those wanting to watch, the entire four hour, two part series is up on PBS.org to view.
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216bruce
Well-Known Member
I think that if you were one of the employees that was well paid and credited, you thought he was a great boss. If you were one of the ones who weren't , he wasn't. Really like any workplace. Any company that grows from a small operation to a big one in a short amount of time will have the issues that the Studio had, especially if you were there during that whole process of growth and success where it would be more apparent. You'd end up thinking, "Hey, what about me?". That's only human. I know I didn't like seeing my idol painted as anything less than perfect, but the fact is that he was human. Just because it's Walt Disney and his company doesn't make him or it immune to the frailties of reality. A lot of the critics seem to miss that, and while the film had a lot of inaccuracies I think they got the big picture pretty right. At least it "felt right" to me. There's a lot of criticism about supposition on the part of the biographers, academics and those who didn't know Walt personally, but that was what they were interviewed for- to provide an alternate view. I swear if I read one more 'Ken Burns would have done an accurate job' or 'Ken Burns didn't have supposition or criticism in his docs', I'll explode. Nothing could be further from the truth.
Yeah, there was a lot left out or only alluded to or touched on, so I feel your pain about WED. But four hours isn't much time. Heck, the program has spent less time over its 26 seasons on a lot of people and events. Usually the multi-episode format is saved for Presidents. Not bad at all Walt, not bad!.
POLY LOVER
Well-Known Member
you have to give him credit for dealing with a dangerous subject at that time. He handled it well or as best he could but the bottom line is he brought it to the public. No matter who thought what about the movie, they all had to think.
prberk
Well-Known Member
Did a lot of people dress in '50s attire, as was recommended by the company, in celebration of the anniversary?
I would love to see some pictures if so. And did they do any special ceremony that you saw?