American Adventure Additions

[KevinPage]

Lots of countries are of course guilty of changing history to suit their agendas, but the power of Hollywood forces it's opinion over a much wider area of the globe.

I don't take Hollywood seriously myself and trust none of it. But it is a global force and I guess I can see how people in other countries who are exposed to it, just think all Americans pander to this mindset.

 

[mkepcotmgmak]

American idealised history tends to bypass the truth in order to paint a more rosy Hollywood-style history. I don't see the American Adventure dwelling on any of the negatives of the country's past.

it's wdw. most people are teary-eyed upon exiting the theater anyway, why make it more depressing at WDW?

 

[tigger248]

Hmmm...I need to go watch it again, it's been a couple years since I've had time to stop and see the show. My first thought was 9/11 but I think it's way too soon to add a 9/11 tribute in there, but it's definitely a significant enough event in American history to be considered for the future. Maybe for the next generation. Right now I think it would just make everyone feel sad, and no one wants to feel sad at Disneyworld.

I was thinking the exact same thing! It's a bit too soon to add 9/11 into the show right now. In the future, it probably should be added, but not now.

I consider myself fairly patriotic and I love the show. It's among my Epcot favorites and I see nothing wrong with it. In fact, I rarely have a dry eye when I leave the theatre. It acknowledges that some unpleasant events happened in history without dwelling on them. And who wants to dwell on negative events at WDW? Not me. I have school history classes to learn about the negative historic events in detail (like my stupid general ed. American Culture class. :fork: Wow I hate that class!).

Which of the other countries' pavillions/movies/rides talk about horrible events of the past? I haven't seen many of them in a while, but I don't recall them displaying negative events of the past. It's just not something that the average guest wants to see on vacation to WDW.

 

[SpaceRacer2003]

I believe that music was changed in 1994. It was then they first tried to revitalize EPCOT Center. It was when they dropped Center, and called it "Epcot '94".

 

[peter11435]

Since this thread is about the American Adventure, this question / comment is about the song. Does anyone have a preference for the New version or the Old Version of Golden Dreams. I got home with the new Disney CD and got the new version and really have to say I prefer the old one.

What do you all say.

I personaly prefer the new version. I don't know why I just think it is better.

 

[sdguy1234]

While I agree that Disney DOES portray an idealized version of American History, lest we forget that WDW is supposed to be (and IS in my humble opinion) the "happiest place on earth"....they do not and probably will never portray a "dark" side of American history...anyhow with that said....

I think I would add the historic "...one small step for man....one giant leap for mankind..." scene...it would be great to see an animatronic astronaut appear from a lunar module....descend the ladder and take that "one small step"....

The one thing that I LOVE is to listen to the Voices of Liberty singers pre-show....every time they sing the Star Spangled Banner at the end of the pre-show, it ALWAYS rolls a tear down my cheek...WOW!!!!!!!!! :sohappy: :sohappy:

Correct me if Im wrong, but isnt DisneyLAND the happiest place on earth?

 

[Testtrack321]

Uh no, not this. Well, as a liberal (take it or leave it guys) I have to say right now it isn't the happiest or prettiest time in American history, with disillusionment not only about the war, but at home, and frankly, we should let AA be for now, I'd rather have a calm, collected addition in a decade or so instead of a fast and hastally assembled montage to what might be wrong. What if they added a huge roaring tribute to Vietnam and how we won and the great ideals we fought for... back in '82? Wouldn't that look tacky, bad, and short-sighted, and very shallow.

I think AA right now should be about HISTORY, not NEWS.

 

[longfamily]

What if they added a huge roaring tribute to Vietnam and how we won and the great ideals we fought for... back in '82?

???????????

Um....Well.....We didn't...um...really win Vietnam.....:lookaroun

 

[Indy95]

I believe that music was changed in 1994. It was then they first tried to revitalize EPCOT Center. It was when they dropped Center, and called it "Epcot '94".

Close, but actually it was in 1993. It was a year before 1994 and the Future World renovation.

People don't go to WDW to see a American company highlight the negatives in American history. Just think of how fun POTC would be if it was historically accurate. Now there's an interesting thought.

 

[ClemsonTigger]

longfamily :

Quote:
Originally Posted by Testtrack321
What if they added a huge roaring tribute to Vietnam and how we won and the great ideals we fought for... back in '82?




???????????

Um....Well.....We didn't...um...really win Vietnam.....
__________________


Sarcasm: A taunting, caustic remark, generally ironical.

I think Testtrack was inferring revisionist history, aka spin, aka politics

 

[Miss Bell]

American Adventure is an idealized view of American history, but it is no worse than any of the other country attractions--I haven't noticed any scenes of abject poverty in a 360 movie or boat ride. I like AA, just like I like the other countries' attractions.

I don't want to sound insensitive, but I don't go to WDW to be reminded of all the things our country has done wrong over the years--I go to see an ideallized version of the world.

 

[Glasgow]

I can only imagine the amount of discussion that went into creating this attraction .. between the imagineers, the board of directors, the historians, etc. It must've taken ages to find a "happy" medium!!

And BTW, if you're getting your history lessons from Hollywood and you don't know the difference between sensationalism and fact, then you're opinion regarding American Adventure is probably not going to be changed by this discussion

 

[General Grizz]

I don't have much to say, except I LOVE this attraction and is perhaps one of the best I've seen in Disney history.

I don't think there's a need to update it - the messages are still presented well. I do not think current events should be put in for a while.

Otherwise, a Disney classic.

 

[Gail Hayden]

My statement is not just directed at the American Adventure per se, but the American view of history in general.

In the attraction the above points get a brief sanitised acknowledgement, but not enough to do them true justice (To be honest, nobody visiting a Disney Park would want to dwell on these dark aspects of the nation's development). There is a slight mention of slavery, but nothing about the true horrors and degradation it involved, nothing about the wholesale slaughter of Native Americans, and little mention of the realities of the world wars, but then Hollywood would have us believe that America won them both single handed.

I enjoy the American Adventure, but you will find that other nations are far more cynical of the Hollywood twist on history and if you look around at many of the non American visitors they don't get patriotic buzz that this show stirs . This may be as they are more aware of the realities behind the glossy show that has just taken place.

I would not blame Hollywood for the pasturization of American History, I would blame the authors of the History books put in the hands of the American School system. In the years since my graduation from High School, I have read a lot about America that will never be seen by most Americans. I won't go on, but, I will say: it has been an amazing discovery. Hollywood may be to blame in a small way, but, that is what they learned in school and never ever went on to see if it was true or not.

 

[Gail Hayden]

And the rest of the world isn't guilty of this :veryconfu

The American Adventure points out the "not so glamorous" parts of our country's history. It's not presented as all "peaches and cream" by any stretch of the imagination

I always find it humorous when people complain/are offended when something is perceived as being "pro American".(not to say that you are being this way Barnum)

I equate it to the Disney Company in many respects. When you are at the top of the food chain, you get all the backlash for being so visible and/or successful.

Between the BBC (almost as bad as Al Jazeer) & our media, we get a bad enough rap as it is. I enjoy things that point out our "positives".

The American Adventure is the best thing on Disney property (along with Illuminations). It creates a nice balance and perspective of our history. And I for one am dang proud of what this country has accomplished and overcome through the years.

Granted, you can't delve into every bad situation, but what is so wrong with presenting a positive, uplifting message? It's not done heavy handed.

There is nothing wrong with a postive, uplifting message. AA is a wonderful, fantastic attraction. Unfortunately, with every positive there is a negative. I don't feel that is it a very balanced perspective on America. But, I also don't believe that is the place to present the negatives.
Those who know the negatives can become offended with the "America is peaches and cream, apple pie, above anything negative". We are not, in fact, above horrific things, but, I do believe there is nothing wrong with not portraying this in the attraction. Any education, no matter how one sided, is better than none. And, that is what AA is, an educational attraction.

 

[Gail Hayden]

Lots of countries are of course guilty of changing history to suit their agendas, but the power of Hollywood forces it's opinion over a much wider area of the globe. Take U571 (I know I've moaned about this in the past) which shows the "true" story of how America won the war by capturing the German Enigma machine from a U-boat. The real truth is that the Royal Navy captured it and it was a team in Britain that broke the code. We won't even go near Braveheart :lol: Even the most staunch of Scots patriots can't support it.

I would not want to take away people's pride in their nation - I don't have it in mine, but that's probably a combination of not being proud of what I see everyday, couple with the PC movement that banned anyone English from display national pride outside of a football stadium

I personally don't have a problem with AA, but for many who are even more cynical than I, they do find it a bit heavy handed.

Braveheart was not factual? Please, tell me that is not true.

 

[Gail Hayden]

Interesting discussions, and I commend all for keeping a subject that could easily slip into deep....well, I wish all discussions could be handled this well.

I think Mstar has the best idea in that the finale movie could easily/should be changed/updated.

While I am fine with the "softened" history, the one criticism I have of the show, specifically the film is the predominance of actors in the images. I love Hollywood, but if we are talking about US milestones and history makers, I just don't think of Marilyn Monroe.

I think the major importance in this show and with the Hall of Presidents is that the issues are at least identified. If slavery, the treatment of Native Americans etc were ignored, then I would consider it a problem

I also tend to personally overcompensate as I feel we focus too much on the negatives, repeatedly beat ourselves up over them and ignore the positives.
Slavery is deplorable, but we ended it here while it is regular practice in many places in the world (that the UN ignores), persecution of indigenous people, ethnic and religious groups is more the rule than the exception, so why do we dwell on our share of the skeletons in the closet. I could go on, but hope I've made my point.

Anyway, the US isn't anywhere near perfect, we are successful, have done a lot of good things and many benefit from our accomplishments. Pride can be taken in that.

Oh, and Barnum...ya can't blame us for Braveheart...that was and Aussie revision wasn't it? :animwink: :lol:

Mel Gibson was born in Jan. 3, 1956 in Peekskill, NY, so while the movie may have been an Aussie revision, it was done by an American by birth.
I am still crushed that it was not factual.

 

[Lauriebar]

Braveheart was not factual? Please, tell me that is not true.

Okay, it's not true....except that it is:lookaroun

http://www.baronage.co.uk/bphtm-01/wallace1.html

 

[Gail Hayden]

It disturbs me that anyone would focus on a negative aspect of what should go into this particular show. First let me add that negative facts do not belong in a show built to honor any country. It is stupid to air your dirty laundry especially when many of the visitors to AA are not from America. AA is a celebration of the hardships that Americans have been through to create the nation that is today...and boy did we have some whoppers!

If you want to argue over "Hollywood History" make sure you know what your talking about. We could debate for days about what was real and what was not. Truthfully, most Americans have no clue what the real historical facts are because most Americans get their historical "facts" from lower education avenues. That education is riddled with holes beyond imagination. For instance most slaves were actually treated fairly well but "hollywood" history would have you believe (which obviously most of you do) that slaves were abused and starved, ect. The cost of a slave in that time period is the equivelent to the price of a car today. Would you beat the crap out of your car? What happens when a person doesn't eat? They cannot perform. Would you starve the person that you need to work all day? This isn't a new concept. People back then were not ignorant by any means, they understood the implications involved if something negative happened to the slaves, and they understood the cost to replace them.

World Wars? We didn't even join in WWII until the end. Had America not joined the allies in this particular war, most of Europe would be speaking German right now. They were losing. France was already pretty much done at the time and England did not have a force large enough to prevent envasion.They were really busy with German air raids. We helped them get it all back. Does this mean that we "single handedly won the war?" No, but the truth is that they could not have done it without us. This is a horror to you? Are you feeling bad about Hiroshima? We truthfully did not know what the effects of the H-bomb would be. We knew the radiation would be devestating, we just didn't know that it would effect the population for so many years afterwards. We are still paying Japan compensation 62 years later. Many people died in Hiroshima that day. Many people died when Japan attacked Hawaii without warning as well. And, as a point, we have never used that bomb again.

The horrors that most people believe are false because of Hollywood and novelists. Pride in your country is not a luxury that many citizens of other countries have. America is something to be proud of. Go live anywhere else and write us a letter about how wonderful the rest of the world is in comparison. Go to Russia and tell us how easy it is to become wealthy. Go to Canada and tell us how great it is that you have extremely high Taxes. Go to the Middle East or the Orient and let us know how much fun it is to be a girl there because you enjoy being a shadow. Go anywhere and let us know that you are better off there.

The true horror that comes out of this country is that so much has been done to give Americans the abilty to live their lives with nobility and they can only point out that they are ashamed of the institution that gave them that right.

American Adventure is fine just the way it is.

I do, respectfully, disagree with your perception of slavery. They were not treated well and they were beaten and abused and they were considered non humans, but, animals, totally replaceable. Much like many people view their pets today.

I do not disagree that AA is wonderful, however, we build a country on both the negatives and positives and we should not be ashamed to admit our mistakes and wrong doings. The ability to do that is what builds character.
As to airing dirty laundry, I will agree, WDW is not the place to do it. BUT, trust me, other countries know our history better than the average American does.
I don't need to go to Russia to understand how difficult it is to become wealthy, I live here, and that is hard enough. I don't need to go to Middle East or Orient to be a female, I am one here, and I can see many women in the shadows. It does happen here. For every negative in another country, you will see it replicated here. Why? Because we are dealing with human beings, and while they may appear to be different, they are all basically the same.
We killed many many more in the attack on Hiroshima than were killed in the attack on Pearl. Neither was a very nice thing. But, if you mention our attack on Japan, we were heros, if you mention the attack on Pearl, Japan was sneaky. Sorry, it cannot be both ways, we were either both sneaky or both heros.

 

[Gail Hayden]

I don't normally respond on the boards but after some of the britain bashing going on i feel i do need to kinda stick my 2p worh.

As for american gloss i think it is perfectly fine that AA only refers (mainly) to the better, in morality terms, side of history - with the show being where it is you won't find the French, Nordic or any of the other countries dwelling on the darker sides of their past in their films at Epcot.

However the wider issue of hollywood gloss being discussed has brought up a little bit of bile. I personally belive that here in Britain we have THE BEST news ageny in the world the BBC reports accuratly and for the most part without bias. This is not true of the American Media (let's not even mention Fox news calling Bush's first term) So to say that we american bash is simply not true - we report the news - without editing or spin, (what our government do is a totally different matter). THe BBC won an international news award for it's coverage, both on screen and on-line, of the 2004 US Election, beating out all american news networks, because of its even handed approach - and i feel very, very proud that my media is not controlled and that my country is quick to look at both sides of the news and ask questions. Not every thing we do is great and in our major historical galleries and museums it tells the whole truth of our nasty past - which we do indeed have.

I'm not sorry for my countries history, i'm sorry for the atrosities that were commited. I'm just glad we don't gloss over them. Maybe it's because we have more history to hold on to or maybe it's just our self depricating culture, i don't know, but i am happy i can rely on my media and my school system to tel lthe whole truth - including about the war - thanks for helping, but you didn't win it for us, we wern't loosing, you won it with us.

Sorry if this is completely off topic! but i feel better, it's cheaper than therapy, and remember, you can dissaggree with me completly i'm not stubborn enough to yell back - if i'm wrong tell me and i'll listen all i ask is tat you do the same in return

David
happy Briton
Dx

David,
Well stated!!!!! I love the BBC, also love reading Jane's.
As an aside, I was brought up in Leicester, Massachusetts. I even know how to pronounce it. LOL