All things Knotts Berry Farm

[PiratesMansion]

You're right they aren't the same. My question was more that instead of just accepting they are different and moving on, many look down on those parks. Almost dismisssive and question why anyone would step foot in those places.

Yet in many polls parks like Knotts, Dollywood and Cedar Point are right up there with Disney.

I guess my question to you is: who is actually doing that in this thread?

I don't think there's a single person who has posted in response to your question who dislikes or devalues Knott's.

 

[Jrb1979]

I guess my question to you is: who is actually doing that in this thread?

I don't think there's a single person who has posted in response to your question who dislikes or devalues Knott's.

In this thread nobody, my post was more in general.

 

[el_super]

Yet in many polls parks like Knotts, Dollywood and Cedar Point are right up there with Disney.

You have to be a roller coaster fan to love parks like Knott's. If you're not, there is less and less to do at these parks. It's cheaper and less risky for their business to build cheaper roller coasters and steer away from direct competition with Disney, and the parks become less for it.

Knott's specifically had a pretty special and different type of feel and atmosphere that they have pretty much trashed in the last 30 years to compete more directly with Six Flags (and look what that got them). They've done a lot of the same things that drive Disney fans insane (drive up prices, raze classic historical attractions, disregard theme or story) but to fans, they get a pass because they're not Disney. Shame really.

 

[Andrew25]

You have to be a roller coaster fan to love parks like Knott's. If you're not, there is less and less to do at these parks. It's cheaper and less risky for their business to build cheaper roller coasters and steer away from direct competition with Disney, and the parks become less for it.

Knott's specifically had a pretty special and different type of feel and atmosphere that they have pretty much trashed in the last 30 years to compete more directly with Six Flags (and look what that got them). They've done a lot of the same things that drive Disney fans insane (drive up prices, raze classic historical attractions, disregard theme or story) but to fans, they get a pass because they're not Disney. Shame really.

Add SeaWorld/Busch to this list. They weren't Disney/Universal quality, but they were different and interesting even if you didn't like coasters (they also had better food).

SeaWorld used to care about blending their rides into the landscape while providing non-thrill seekers an experience as well (look at Manta with a beautiful aquarium attached). Nowadays, they just add a coaster with a loose-aquatic theme and a palm tree or two (Pipeline).

 

[Touchdown]

United Parks (fka known as Sea World) is doing a little more theming these days, the Arctic Pinguin ride at SWO at least has some rock work, and the jewel of the chain BGW after doing no theming for Pantheon, added theming back to Lockness Monster this past year and the new Big Bad Wolf will have its Bavarian Village to terrorize again. Apparently, the board took note of the very strong sales in Lockness Monster merchandise after the up theme and has finally realized the value in theming again.

 

[Andrew25]

United Parks (fka known as Sea World) is doing a little more theming these days, the Arctic Pinguin ride at SWO at least has some rock work, and the jewel of the chain BGW after doing no theming for Pantheon, added theming back to Lockness Monster this past year and the new Big Bad Wolf will have its Bavarian Village to terrorize again. Apparently, the board took note of the very strong sales in Lockness Monster merchandise after the up theme and has finally realized the value in theming again.

Hoping that's the case, but Penguin Trek benefited from taking over a previously existing themed area.

 

[Jrb1979]

You have to be a roller coaster fan to love parks like Knott's. If you're not, there is less and less to do at these parks. It's cheaper and less risky for their business to build cheaper roller coasters and steer away from direct competition with Disney, and the parks become less for it.

Knott's specifically had a pretty special and different type of feel and atmosphere that they have pretty much trashed in the last 30 years to compete more directly with Six Flags (and look what that got them). They've done a lot of the same things that drive Disney fans insane (drive up prices, raze classic historical attractions, disregard theme or story) but to fans, they get a pass because they're not Disney. Shame really.

Yes they have moved away from being Disney lite compared to what they once were. They still have their Western town and they have done a big refurb to the Caico Mine train and flume ride.

As far as prices, yeah day tickets have gone up quite a bit but if you a season pass that includes all Six Flags parks, it's $230.

 

[Jrb1979]

Hoping that's the case, but Penguin Trek benefited from taking over a previously existing themed area.

Even the former Cedar Fair parks have been doing some theming for new attractions.

 

[Phroobar]

You have to be a roller coaster fan to love parks like Knott's. If you're not, there is less and less to do at these parks. It's cheaper and less risky for their business to build cheaper roller coasters and steer away from direct competition with Disney, and the parks become less for it.

Knott's specifically had a pretty special and different type of feel and atmosphere that they have pretty much trashed in the last 30 years to compete more directly with Six Flags (and look what that got them). They've done a lot of the same things that drive Disney fans insane (drive up prices, raze classic historical attractions, disregard theme or story) but to fans, they get a pass because they're not Disney. Shame really.

Why is there a bias against roller coasters out of any kind of attraction? Knotts has the same number of coasters as Disneyland. In fact, most of the coasters are as tame as Disneyland's.

 

[Phroobar]

Yes they have moved away from being Disney lite compared to what they once were. They still have their Western town and they have done a big refurb to the Caico Mine train and flume ride.

As far as prices, yeah day tickets have gone up quite a bit but if you a season pass that includes all Six Flags parks, it's $230.

and that includes parking. They had a deal around Halloween for All Cedar Fair and Six Flag parks and free parking for $195. No black out dates. That is a $1 more than Knotts only and free parking.

 

[mickEblu]

Yes they have moved away from being Disney lite compared to what they once were. They still have their Western town and they have done a big refurb to the Caico Mine train and flume ride.

As far as prices, yeah day tickets have gone up quite a bit but if you a season pass that includes all Six Flags parks, it's $230.

Ghost town alone is worth the price of admission to Knotts especially at those dirt cheap annual pass options. My issue with Knotts is that costs nothing to get in but if you don’t get there very early or buy fast lanes you are not going to have a great time. It costs nothing to go so it’s very often extremely crowded if you can’t get there on an offseason weekday. This issue is then exacerbated by all the slow loading rides. Oh yea, don’t get me started on the food prices.

 

[Phroobar]

Ghost town alone is worth the price of admission to Knotts especially at those dirt cheap annual pass options. My issue with Knotts is that costs nothing to get in but if you don’t get there very early or buy fast lanes you are not going to have a great time. It costs nothing to go so it’s very often extremely crowded if you can’t get there on an offseason weekday. This issue is then exacerbated by all the slow loading rides. Oh yea, don’t get me started on the food prices.

It does get crowded with all the ex-pat Disneyland people. Also the locals show up. The price is competitive with the rest of the country's parks. The more people are barred from Disney, the more people will flock to alternate parks.

I really think they need to revisit Dark Beer's project Fort Calico and start using the backstage area for more rides and build that parking structure. Knotts owns a lot of surrounding lots that could be used for park expansion. I say sell off some Six Flags parks for housing and expand the rest of them like Knotts into vacation destinations.

 

[PiratesMansion]

It does get crowded with all the ex-pat Disneyland people. Also the locals show up. The price is competitive with the rest of the country's parks. The more people are barred from Disney, the more people will flock to alternate parks.

I really think they need to revisit Dark Beer's project Fort Calico and start using the backstage area for more rides and build that parking structure. Knotts owns a lot of surrounding lots that could be used for park expansion. I say sell off some Six Flags parks for housing and expand the rest of them like Knotts into vacation destinations.

I don't think there's any serious chance of making Knott's into any more of a vacation destination than it already is. It already has a hotel, that's probably about as good as it's going to get.

A parking structure and infrastructure improvements could work wonders-if they could ever get the money to allow them to proceed. But I imagine that Knott's is stuck with its current infrastructure situation unless a miracle occurs.

I do agree that Knott's pricing is pretty standard/representative of non-Disney parks.

 

[Misted Compass]

Why is there a bias against roller coasters out of any kind of attraction? Knotts has the same number of coasters as Disneyland. In fact, most of the coasters are as tame as Disneyland's.

Knott's has more coasters than both parks combined (9 vs 6).

 

[choco choco]

It does get crowded with all the ex-pat Disneyland people. Also the locals show up. The price is competitive with the rest of the country's parks. The more people are barred from Disney, the more people will flock to alternate parks.

I really think they need to revisit Dark Beer's project Fort Calico and start using the backstage area for more rides and build that parking structure. Knotts owns a lot of surrounding lots that could be used for park expansion. I say sell off some Six Flags parks for housing and expand the rest of them like Knotts into vacation destinations.

No chance. Knott's has not expanded its acreage since Camp Snoopy in the early 80's, basically around the time Walter Knott died. They have barely been able to keep up maintenance and theming in the areas they already have. It's basically Ghost Town placemaking is nice, and then theming falls off a cliff outside of those areas. I don't think they have the operational ability to build out and maintain even more square footage, and that's not even getting into that there's massive room for improvement inside the current footprint (Boardwalk is horrid and the 1920's area is like, more wishful thinking than anything else) or taking into account Six Flags attitude toward theming in general.

 

[Phroobar]

No chance. Knott's has not expanded its acreage since Camp Snoopy in the early 80's, basically around the time Walter Knott died. They have barely been able to keep up maintenance and theming in the areas they already have. It's basically Ghost Town placemaking is nice, and then theming falls off a cliff outside of those areas. I don't think they have the operational ability to build out and maintain even more square footage, and that's not even getting into that there's massive room for improvement inside the current footprint (Boardwalk is horrid and the 1920's area is like, more wishful thinking than anything else) or taking into account Six Flags attitude toward theming in general.

Not true. Knotts upgraded d Fiesta village, boardwalk, Walter Knotts theater & pizza place and camp snoopy recently. They also have live entertainment most of the year.

Knott's has more coasters than both parks combined (9 vs 6).

Knotts actually has eight not nine. Still what is wrong with coasters over flat rides? Knotts also has a far superior log ride.

 

[Emmanuel]

Knotts has released the line up for this years Peanuts Celebration which will coincide with the 75th anniversary of the franchise.

It's Your Life Charlie Brown that took place on the mine stage during the day has been retired and in its place will be "Lets Celebrate!" which will celebrate the occasion

Town Hall in Ghost Town will have a new exhibit showcasing Charles M Shultz

The rest are returning offerings including Snoopy's Legendary Rooftop Concert also on the Calico Mine Stage featuring the Jelly of the Month Club band.

The trivia show that ran alongside the Sketch School in the Bird Cage Theater is not listed so I assume its been cut

 

[PiratesMansion]

No chance. Knott's has not expanded its acreage since Camp Snoopy in the early 80's, basically around the time Walter Knott died.

And they did try, in the past, to put additional attractions across the street, only to find that they were never the draw as the attractions on the main property.

They have barely been able to keep up maintenance and theming in the areas they already have. It's basically Ghost Town placemaking is nice, and then theming falls off a cliff outside of those areas. I don't think they have the operational ability to build out and maintain even more square footage, and that's not even getting into that there's massive room for improvement inside the current footprint (Boardwalk is horrid and the 1920's area is like, more wishful thinking than anything else) or taking into account Six Flags attitude toward theming in general.

Honestly, I would say that although there are obvious placement decisions that were made that they're now stuck with (i.e. Silver Bullet), the non-Boardwalk areas are above-average in theming quality when compared to other regional parks. It's not Disney or Universal, but there's an extra level of care not often seen at other parks. Even the Boardwalk area to me isn't quite as bad as many people say it is.

RE: Six Flags and theming, Cedar Fair, who merged with Six Flags and is largely controlling what is happening with the company, has been making an effort to reintroduce/reintegrate theming over the last ten years. Again, not to the level of Disney, but it's not accurate to say that they don't care about theming or don't try at all to make things cohesive.

 

[mickEblu]

And they did try, in the past, to put additional attractions across the street, only to find that they were never the draw as the attractions on the main property.

Honestly, I would say that although there are obvious placement decisions that were made that they're now stuck with (i.e. Silver Bullet), the non-Boardwalk areas are above-average in theming quality when compared to other regional parks. It's not Disney or Universal, but there's an extra level of care not often seen at other parks. Even the Boardwalk area to me isn't quite as bad as many people say it is.

RE: Six Flags and theming, Cedar Fair, who merged with Six Flags and is largely controlling what is happening with the company, has been making an effort to reintroduce/reintegrate theming over the last ten years. Again, not to the level of Disney, but it's not accurate to say that they don't care about theming or don't try at all to make things cohesive.

Silver Bullet has got to go. Let the Boardwalk be the place for the big steel coasters. Lean into the theme park side of Knotts and replace that giant eyesore at the entrance of your park with a nice facade of some sort that houses a family coaster or attraction.

 

[Phroobar]

Silver Bullet has got to go. Let the Boardwalk be the place for the big steel coasters. Lean into the theme park side of Knotts and replace that giant eyesore at the entrance of your park with a nice facade of some sort that houses a family coaster or attraction.

I do like Silver Bullet but I really miss the lake and paddlewheel. They used to shoot off fireworks there. Put in a half size paddlewheel.

I would replace Excellerator with a new coaster that is longer with some loops. Better yet, bring back the Wacky Soapbox Racers but as a modern rail coaster with AAs and scenery. Return the Autopia-type cars but as electric with no center rail.

I would demolish Coast Rider because anyone over 5'6" can't ride it without having their knees destroyed. Put in a couple of flat rides there. Even Goofy's Sky School is much more comfortable for a wild mouse. Replace it with a Ghost Train dark ride. Make it super cheesy but with cutting edge effects.

Oh, and never return the parashoot drop. That thing was super scary considering the cages only went up to 48".