Alcohol in the Magic Kingdom

[Goofyernmost]

I agree with you fairly often on other threads, but this is not your best argument.

Disney is not a religion, it's a business, and things always will change and evolve. It's management's job to find and tap untapped revenue streams at least see how things go. They already have a clientele who are interested in imbibing and since Epcot seems to be most crowded during times with extra drinking, and BoG didn't end the World, it makes sense to give this a shot. (No pun lol.)

It makes sense only in the sense of more money coming into the accounting office, when it comes to the original purpose of Walt Disney's parks, it isn't even close. I will say it again... it is a family destination. It already has a number of locations within those areas where adults can go and be by themselves, but, that isn't what some want. They want Disney to exclude families to become an adult only venue at certain times. That will, faster then anything else in the world, end Disneyland/WDW as a family destination and therefore end those and the other world parks as the place we have all come to enjoy. It's not about drinking, it's about exclusive drinking and excluding families. What possible good can come of that? I'm not against alcohol, and I have consumed more then my share, but, I also know that there are places that it doesn't belong in huge proportions. Epcot, as an isolated area is although as anti-Walt Disney as anyplace can be, at least localized that type of attitude. Put it everywhere, exclude families in certain instances and what has been created is something that is no longer what Walt had in mind when he built Disneyland. It becomes the carnival that he built Disneyland to be the opposite of for families.

 

[Bandini]

Learn something about the internet. We don't speak of people individually. I don't care one way or the other if you are a tea-totaler or a fall down drunk. That isn't what this is all about. What this is about is wanting things to change for you own personal liking as opposed to what is good for the majority. It never has been about YOU, try thinking in a more abstract form one the may use the word, you, as a definition of people and certain mental attitudes. Disney parks were never built on the premise of put the kids in a box and make like the don't exist so we can play like grown ups without having to deal with them. My whole entire discussion is to say that there are already a lot of places where you can get your grown up on but, that Disney was never thought about to be that destination and shouldn't be. Having alcohol in the parks, in and of itself, is not a problem and shouldn't be for any responsible adult. Start excluding families then you have gone to the wrong place to experience adulthood. Try understanding the difference, because, I obviously am not getting through.

Can you be any more condescending? Once again, you have affirmed that you are incapable of arguing without attacking your opponent.
Ad hominem (Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"[1]), short for argumentum ad hominem, is a logical fallacy in which an argument is rebutted by attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself.[2]

Fallacious ad hominem reasoning is normally categorized as an informal fallacy,[3][4][5] more precisely as a genetic fallacy, a subcategory of fallacies of irrelevance

Ad hominem (Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"[1]), short for argumentum ad hominem, is a logical fallacy in which an argument is rebutted by attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself.[2]

Fallacious ad hominem reasoning is normally categorized as an informal fallacy,[3][4][5] more precisely as a genetic fallacy, a subcategory of fallacies of irrelevance

 

[Goofyernmost]

Can you be any more condescending? Once again, you have affirmed that you are incapable of arguing without attacking your opponent.
Ad hominem (Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"[1]), short for argumentum ad hominem, is a logical fallacy in which an argument is rebutted by attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself.[2]

Fallacious ad hominem reasoning is normally categorized as an informal fallacy,[3][4][5] more precisely as a genetic fallacy, a subcategory of fallacies of irrelevance

Ad hominem (Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"[1]), short for argumentum ad hominem, is a logical fallacy in which an argument is rebutted by attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself.[2]

Fallacious ad hominem reasoning is normally categorized as an informal fallacy,[3][4][5] more precisely as a genetic fallacy, a subcategory of fallacies of irrelevance

Let's end this discussion, yes I know that the internet is your friend, you don't even try to understand what I am saying because paranoia has taken over your thought process. I am not, no matter how may google definitions you come up with, going to be able to make you understand my points, so, if you won't end it on you own, I will not be responding anymore to your contributions. You have done all you need to do to let everyone know where you are coming from and so have I. One cannot force people to think alike and I am no longer going to try. Just don't say I didn't try to explain my position.

 

[Tony the Tigger]

It makes sense only in the sense of more money coming into the accounting office, when it comes to the original purpose of Walt Disney's parks, it isn't even close. I will say it again... it is a family destination.

More money coming into the accounting office is their job.

Re: " original purpose" - again, it's not a religion. The founder is gone. You may see it as a shame. Many people don't.

It will never be what it was, for better or worse.

And there are all kinds of families with all kinds of preferred activities.

If a family is so fragile that it can't handle walking past a beer cart, I'd say they have bigger problems.

 

[21stamps]

More money coming into the accounting office is their job.

Re: " original purpose" - again, it's not a religion. The founder is gone. You may see it as a shame. Many people don't.

It will never be what it was, for better or worse.

And there are all kinds of families with all kinds of preferred activities.

If I family is so fragile that it can't handle walking past a beer cart, I'd say they have bigger problems.

I'm so glad that I read this! I usually always agree with you as you are one of my favorite wdwmagic posters..lol.
He was referring to Bandini's "horrible experiences" with children while dining at a restaurant in Disneyland...and her statement that bc of said event children should not be allowed in nice restaurants or lounges. I don't think @Goofyernmost was referring to alcohol in the MK, or that it would ruin the family experience at WDW.

 

[larryz]

I'm still not sure why it's so difficult for an adult to not have an alcoholic beverage for a few hours in a place designed for family and children.

And I don't see why the limited sales of beer and wine with food in Table Service locations is so traumatic to a distinct minority of people. It's not like WDW announced they're going to force kids to start smoking or that they're introducing pole and lap dancing...

In some FAMILIES, the regular moderate use of alcohol is not only tolerated, but encouraged. Just because it doesn't fit your definition of "family" doesn't make it wrong.

As far as tradition goes, that died with Walt himself. The new tradition is "Shareholder Value."

 

[Tony the Tigger]

I'm so glad that I read this! I usually always agree with you as you are one of my favorite wdwmagic posters..lol.
He was referring to Bandini's "horrible experiences" with children while dining at a restaurant in Disneyland...and her statement that bc of said event children should not be allowed in nice restaurants or lounges. I don't think @Goofyernmost was referring to alcohol in the MK, or that it would ruin the family experience at WDW.

Got it, thanks. Context is everything!

 

[Goofyernmost]

More money coming into the accounting office is their job.

Re: " original purpose" - again, it's not a religion. The founder is gone. You may see it as a shame. Many people don't.

It will never be what it was, for better or worse.

And there are all kinds of families with all kinds of preferred activities.

If I family is so fragile that it can't handle walking past a beer cart, I'd say they have bigger problems.

I don't know who you are confusing me with, but, I am in agreement with you. For most everything, and to make up new rules for what was meant for families, is not really a good point. You know what I was talking about and what Walt's thoughts were when building the first park. Family to him, at that point meant including children, still does. No one is saying that there should be no place for childless people to go, just that there doesn't need to be the majority of places. Currently many already exist. I don't understand your position at all, because you have stated that you felt that it should continue to be what was originally thought of for the mission. Now your arguing just the opposite. Let me clarify once more... I am not against people (adults) having a place to go or a number of places to go, but, to feel that the majority should be that way completely destroys the original meaning of the parks and specifically excluding them from places that they should be welcome in, then that to me is asking to much and the results will be to end Disneylands/Worlds as we have grown to know and love them.

Of course, the ability to walk past a beer cart is their problem, but, that is like standing on the corner pushing a free heroin fix because if people stop and have one, it's their problem, not ours. Sorry, but, it is ours and it changes the entire feel and meaning of going to Disney. It becomes something else. You want it to be that, fine... I do not and I don't think anyone should. Besides that wouldn't be excluding children from the parks, what has been stated by others is not the same thing. Make sure they aren't there after a certain hour because then it becomes our place.

Yes, I know heroin is not the same as beer, but, the underlying change in atmosphere can be compared even if not the severity.

 

[matt9112]

I do think certain venues should not allow children under 10 in after 8pm. Why is that such a horrible thing?
I agree with your premise, but people don't seem to be shamed into any type of good behavior.

Additionally, for every 30 sets of parents who are courteous and remove their child from the restaurant when they start misbehaving, there is only one set that allows the behavior to continue.

As far as the idea that a family destination should not have any age restrictions on admission to restaurants or lounges, I think the reason the DCL is so successful is because of these restrictions. On their ships, there are area where kids only are allowed and where adults only are allowed.

DCL is unique your stuck on a boat you have no other choice....in orlando you have the rest of the city....trust me I know I dance on tables

 

[The_Jobu]

or that they're introducing pole and lap dancing...

It seemed to work in The Wolf Among Us...

 

[rob0519]

And I don't see why the limited sales of beer and wine with food in Table Service locations is so traumatic to a distinct minority of people. It's not like WDW announced they're going to force kids to start smoking or that they're introducing pole and lap dancing...

In some FAMILIES, the regular moderate use of alcohol is not only tolerated, but encouraged. Just because it doesn't fit your definition of "family" doesn't make it wrong.

As far as tradition goes, that died with Walt himself. The new tradition is "Shareholder Value."

I like how you selectively edited my comment to leave out:
"If the change remains beer and wine only at table service restaurants I think it's a fair change. As others have said, if it comes down to beer carts in front of Peter Pan, that in my opinion is over the line for a family park."

What source are you using to validate your "distinct minority" designation? How big was the sample size of the poll and how many respondents are traumatized?

It's odd that you say tradition died with Walt. Walt died in 1966 and the tradition of no alcohol in the Magic Kingdom continued from opening day in 1971 until BOG started serving beer and wine in 2015. I guess some traditions take 44 years to die.

 

[Tony the Tigger]

I don't know who you are confusing me with, but, I am in agreement with you. For most everything, and to make up new rules for what was meant for families, is not really a good point. You know what I was talking about and what Walt's thoughts were when building the first park. Family to him, at that point meant including children, still does. No one is saying that there should be no place for childless people to go, just that there doesn't need to be the majority of places. Currently many already exist. I don't understand your position at all, because you have stated that you felt that it should continue to be what was originally thought of for the mission. Now your arguing just the opposite. Let me clarify once more... I am not against people (adults) having a place to go or a number of places to go, but, to feel that the majority should be that way completely destroys the original meaning of the parks and specifically excluding them from places that they should be welcome in, then that to me is asking to much and the results will be to end Disneylands/Worlds as we have grown to know and love them.

Of course, the ability to walk past a beer cart is their problem, but, that is like standing on the corner pushing a free heroin fix because if people stop and have one, it's their problem, not ours. Sorry, but, it is ours and it changes the entire feel and meaning of going to Disney. It becomes something else. You want it to be that, fine... I do not and I don't think anyone should. Besides that wouldn't be excluding children from the parks, what has been stated by others is not the same thing. Make sure they aren't there after a certain hour because then it becomes our place.

Yes, I know heroin is not the same as beer, but, the underlying change in atmosphere can be compared even if not the severity.

To clarify, my position is that I don't feel strongly either way, but I do tend to react to exaggerated hysteria on either side of the argument.

I prefer having a drink available in MK. I don't much care if it's in a restaurant or in a beer cart. If it's not there, I'll live.

I have just recently avoided MK in the evening because we had already had a few at DS, and if you go to MK and can't have another one, you're liable to end up tired/with a headache, etc. (or at least I am.)

With all that said, I get the argument that it is more "little kid" oriented, and some people may want to keep it "pure." But we always had a cooler of beer for the Uncles at childrens' birthday parties within our family. Nobody was offended by that.

I do not consider "tradition" a valid argument in most cases.

And you should just delete the heroin comment. It was not a good analogy at all. Heroin is illegal. Alcohol is not. "Free heroin" in your example is not comparable to $9 beer. And the actions of a person on heroin are a little different than a person who had a beer. That was just not a good point on any level.

ETA: Neither does one screaming kid ruin my life.

 

[beertiki]

There has always been alcohol in the MK. Some load up heavily before entering, some bring a water bottle full of vodka. Just like bratty kids, there will be those who have had too much to drink. Both should be removed for the enjoyment of others. Me, I can handle a beer or ten, and not make a fool of myself or cause you discomfort. There are many like me and Disney wants that $50 in my pocket that will not be spent on Mickey bars, dole whips, t shirts, or pins. They know me, they study me, they do not want me to leave with that $50. They know that I and thousands of other have purchased beer with Magic bands at Epcot, DHS, and AK, but my per night spending is less at MK. They want my money.

 

[larryz]

I like how you selectively edited my comment to leave out:
"If the change remains beer and wine only at table service restaurants I think it's a fair change. As others have said, if it comes down to beer carts in front of Peter Pan, that in my opinion is over the line for a family park."

What source are you using to validate your "distinct minority" designation? How big was the sample size of the poll and how many respondents are traumatized?

It's odd that you say tradition died with Walt. Walt died in 1966 and the tradition of no alcohol in the Magic Kingdom continued from opening day in 1971 until BOG started serving beer and wine in 2015. I guess some traditions take 44 years to die.

I was just addressing your gross generalization that someone "finds it difficult" to forego an alcoholic beverage in the MK. Choosing to imbibe doesn't mean that someone is compelled to do so.

My poll consisted of everyone in my office. Everyone who mattered (me) agreed.

As for traditions dying slowly, well, that's what they do. Otherwise they'd just be fads.

 

[I am Timmy]

All we need now is confirmation that the alcohol is only served in the private cabanas. Then we have a castle park that sells booze in a private club and so Walt would turn in his grave and...wait....

Sadly, my DS 21 has started calling the cabanas in MK "sex tents". It wasn't so long ago that my sons were innocent, little Disney fans. Now they are world savvy, adult Disney fans. My sons (24,21) who have been going with to DW for years, seem to think that combining alcohol with private cabanas in MK will invite challenges to do naughty things in those cabanas so they can brag about these things they did in MK! Any thoughts?

 

[Jon81uk]

Sadly, my DS 21 has started calling the cabanas in MK "sex tents". It wasn't so long ago that my sons were innocent, little Disney fans. Now they are world savvy, adult Disney fans. My sons (24,21) who have been going with to DW for years, seem to think that combining alcohol with private cabanas in MK will invite challenges to do naughty things in those cabanas so they can brag about these things they did in MK! Any thoughts?

There is no evidence that alcohol is being served outside of a table service restaurant. Tell your children to get their minds out of the gutter when talking to their father.

 

[I am Timmy]

There is no evidence that alcohol is being served outside of a table service restaurant. Tell your children to get their minds out of the gutter when talking to their father.

I am their mother, and they simply blurted out the first thought that popped into their head when they heard this news. Not unlike many people that make comments on these threads. I am also hoping they will outgrow their "gutter minds", thank you for your concern. By the way, alcohol need not be involved for naughty things to happen in "private cabanas".

 

[Jon81uk]

I am their mother, and they simply blurted out the first thought that popped into their head when they heard this news. Not unlike many people that make comments on these threads. I am also hoping they will outgrow their "gutter minds", thank you for your concern. By the way, alcohol need not be involved for naughty things to happen in "private cabanas".

sorry I assumed Father as your screen name includes Timmy. I agree that alcohol isn't needed for things to happen in cabanas, and there probably are people who have thought about it. but does it happen at the waterparks?

 

[xdan0920]

but does it happen at the waterparks?

Probably.

 

[Bandini]

I am their mother, and they simply blurted out the first thought that popped into their head when they heard this news. Not unlike many people that make comments on these threads. I am also hoping they will outgrow their "gutter minds", thank you for your concern. By the way, alcohol need not be involved for naughty things to happen in "private cabanas".

IMO there are always going to be people who "push the envelope" Think of the Mile High Club. So I think your sons are probably right. Also, alcohol can be smuggled into the MK, so I don't think buying it in the parks is an issue.