Al Lutz reporting marketing push for 2011

[sublimesting]

Half the Star Wars films are deemed incredibly stupid. Harry Potter will have a total of 8 films and if all goes to plan these last 2 films will be the best of the bunch. All 6 so far have had critical acclaim and that's hard to get when it's just an adaptation of a book series original.

To say HP is not even in the same category or is somehow ripping off LotR (.) is so incredibly stupid that 'stupid' is the only word I can think of when describing whoever claims this. Sorry. The facts are all there.

Harry Potter is already the top grossing film franchise ever. Star Wars is third. This doesn't even count book sales.

Not so, you have to take inflation into account:

http://boxofficemojo.com/alltime/adjusted.htm

Star Wars alone made $1,416,050,800 (domestic market)

HP and the Sorceror's Stone made $444,508,200 (domestic market)

http://movies.yahoo.com/feature/lif...t-successful-movie-franchise-of-all-time.html

With inflation taken into account Star Wars franchise steamrolls HP. If you take merchandising into account HP isn't even in the same ballpark.

 

[jakeman]

As I stated before, I'm a huge Star Wars fan and I don't have any interest in Potter. But even I can look at this objectively and say that Potter is currently the hotter franchise.

I agree.

It is a pretty straightforward supply and demand with regard to merchandising.

Right now, Star Wars fans are having their merchandising needs met across almost every platform.

Harry Potter merchandise, based on my own in store observations (anecdotial, I know), seems to be a fraction of what is available for Star Wars.

Intentional or not, Rowling has done a good job developing products in her universe that can translate satisfactorily to the real world. That chocolate frog may not move, but stick a wizard card in there and it is pretty darn close to the product in the movie. She has even set up a marketplace in her books that can translate to the real world.

Star Wars has got weapons that are physically impossible to make and nerf steak.

Even if Disney were to make a Star Wars land (which still wouldn't be a bad idea) marketing in-universe items that people must have would be difficult to near impossible. Beyond blue milk, what item in Star Wars are people scrambling for that is either: a. not currently available somewhere else, b. plausible to produce that would give the consumer an authentic "Star Wars" feel, or c. purchased in a place that evokes feelings directly from the movies?

In my opinion, that is why the Harry Potter land at IoA is so successful with merchandise. This stuff fits all of the above categories. You feel like you are buying a real Chocolate Frog from Honeyduke's. You feel like you are buying a real wand from Olivander's (granted wands don't really have to "do" anything, it's just a stick. Lightsabers need to have a stream of plasma shooting out the tip to be believable).

To sum up this rambling, in the theme park setting demand for Star Wars merchandise is low because of the proliferation of said merchandise in everyday life and the fantastical nature of the merchandise itself. Almost the exact converse is true for Harry Potter. "Real world" merchandise is more limited and most products for Potter have at least some anchor in the real world, making their production and conversion simplier.

 

[stlbobby]

Over 30+ years, Star Wars had grossed more money and had more of a cultural impact than HP has in... however many years its been around (too lazy too look it up).

Irrelevant.

Right now, today, HP is more "in demand". Star Wars may have a larger fan base. But they aren't as devoted as the current HP fans. And Star Wars fans have had their demand for Star Wars product met for decades. Potter fans have been starving for this stuff.

In 10 years time, the demand for Potter may have cooled off. But the demand for Star Wars may have cooled too unless Lucas does something to stoke interest. If it weren't for the success of the Clone Wars cartoon series, I think Star Wars would likely be back to it's early 90s state of dormancy.

As I stated before, I'm a huge Star Wars fan and I don't have any interest in Potter. But even I can look at this objectively and say that Potter is currently the hotter franchise.

This was posted by another poster. It shows that Star Wars is still a vibrant merchandising property:

The Today Show - June 2010

From the article:

A study published in June 2010 by The Licensing Book, a trade magazine for toy manufacturers, asked boys aged 5 to 10 what their favorite movie-based toy was. The resounding No. 1 answer was “Star Wars,” beating out “Harry Potter,” “Transformers,” “G.I Joe,” “Avatar” and other recent blockbusters. Even more impressive? There hasn’t been a live-action “Star Wars” film in five years.

In the first quarter of 2009, “Star Wars” toys dominated licensed toy sales — more than 90 percent ahead of any other license — thanks in part to the new animated TV series “Star Wars: The Clone Wars,” according to Toy News online. The Christmas prior, the franchise moved 5.7 million units of toys, exceeding $450 million in toy sales for 2008.

Star Wars is currently in the midsts of hit cartoon series and has two other TV series in the pipeline. According to Master Yoda on a different thread Star Wars conventions regularly draw over 30,000 fans. Star Wars is extremely hot and the demand for their products is still huge as evidenced by:

Just bought my 6 year-old son Clone Wars pjs during our back-to-school clothes shopping trip this past weekend, because he "had" to get them. And when we went to DHS in June, all he could think of was the shop outside the Star Tours ride......

I, along with others, have posted a litany of facts and sources to support my assertion that Star Wars is still the most lucrative franchise. Just restating I don't think so isn't a serious argument.

 

[wm49rs]

I, along with others, have posted a litany of facts and sources to support my assertion that Star Wars is still the most lucrative franchise. Just restating I don't think so isn't a serious argument.

I don't recall saying it was or wasn't a serious argument. Just supporting someone else's assertion......

 

[stlbobby]

You keep saying that you're not very familiar with the Harry Potter franchise, but then you decide that you can make statements like that? Don't admit that you don't know much about something and then try to assert an incredibly flawed opinion on others.

For the record, Harry Potter based curriculums are also taught on college campuses. As in, entire courses devoted to the series... not just blurbs in film and cinematography classes.

*shrug*

Star Wars is taught across the board on college campuses, not just in film schools. Harry Potter is not discussed in intellectual circles as serious art as Star Wars regularly is.

You also need to reread everything I have posted. I have not just made unfounded assertions. I have backed them with statistics, essays, and articles from all kinds of sources. Several other posters have posted facts, figures, and anecdotes to support my contentions.

I also said I don't know enough to compare the details of Harry against Lord of the Rings so I offered other people's observations, only in response to another poster to offer a dissenting opinion. This was all in reguard to the rip-off accusations, a subject on which I did not offer a personal opinion.

And even though I am not familiar with the Potter stories I am extremely familiar with the effect they have. I work in the film and video industry, and closely monitor trends, hot properties, and impact. For example I have never seen a Twilight movie or read a Twilight book, but based on my observations of box office returns, merchandising figures, and reviews and evaluations of the material I can make statements and the popularity and impact of the franchise. I know it is one of the hottest properties right now and the main demographic is young women and girls, but I couldn't offer plot or character specifics.

As I have repeatedly said HP is extremely popular and a great property for Universal, but it is no where near the lucrative property Star Wars is.

 

[stlbobby]

I don't recall saying it was or wasn't a serious argument. Just supporting someone else's assertion......

wm49ers I was using your quote to support my argument. I was then back to addressing lebeau, stating that his arguments, or statements, couldn't be taken seriously because he offered nothing in support. He just keeps repeating the same thing without offering any support.

I'm sorry for the confusion.

I didn't mean to imply you were dissing the discussion.

 

[wm49rs]

wm49ers I was using your quote to support my argument. I was then back to addressing lebeau, stating that his arguments, or statements, couldn't be taken seriously because he offered nothing in support. He just keeps repeating the same thing without offering any support.

I'm sorry for the confusion.

I didn't mean to imply you were dissing the discussion.

No problem. Just a little befuddled there myself....

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

Its a bitter battle to prove who is indeed top of the sad act pile.

 

[stlbobby]

I agree.

It is a pretty straightforward supply and demand with regard to merchandising.

Right now, Star Wars fans are having their merchandising needs met across almost every platform.

Harry Potter merchandise, based on my own in store observations (anecdotial, I know), seems to be a fraction of what is available for Star Wars.

Intentional or not, Rowling has done a good job developing products in her universe that can translate satisfactorily to the real world. That chocolate frog may not move, but stick a wizard card in there and it is pretty darn close to the product in the movie. She has even set up a marketplace in her books that can translate to the real world.

Star Wars has got weapons that are physically impossible to make and nerf steak.

Even if Disney were to make a Star Wars land (which still wouldn't be a bad idea) marketing in-universe items that people must have would be difficult to near impossible. Beyond blue milk, what item in Star Wars are people scrambling for that is either: a. not currently available somewhere else, b. plausible to produce that would give the consumer an authentic "Star Wars" feel, or c. purchased in a place that evokes feelings directly from the movies?

In my opinion, that is why the Harry Potter land at IoA is so successful with merchandise. This stuff fits all of the above categories. You feel like you are buying a real Chocolate Frog from Honeyduke's. You feel like you are buying a real wand from Olivander's (granted wands don't really have to "do" anything, it's just a stick. Lightsabers need to have a stream of plasma shooting out the tip to be believable).

To sum up this rambling, in the theme park setting demand for Star Wars merchandise is low because of the proliferation of said merchandise in everyday life and the fantastical nature of the merchandise itself. Almost the exact converse is true for Harry Potter. "Real world" merchandise is more limited and most products for Potter have at least some anchor in the real world, making their production and conversion simplier.

Honestly I am not sure what your contention is here, but if the argument is that HP is a better property for a theme park. I would have to disagree based only on the amount of merchandise I see moving out the Star Tours shop. I'd like to see actual sales figures for the shop and the HP shops. Without those figures anecdotal evidence can go back and forth forever.

What is clear is your contention that lightsabers aren't a viable merchandising opportunity is wrong. One of the most popular Star Wars toys is and always has been the lightsaber and at WDW the experience is enhanced by the ability to build custom lightsabers. These are immensely popular and essentially the equivalent to the Potter wands. There are plenty of opportunities in the diverse galaxy of Star Wars for authentic merchandise, some of which are currently being exploited.

 

[stlbobby]

No problem. Just a little befuddled there myself....

After I read your post I can see how it was confusing.

 

[jakeman]

Honestly I am not sure what your contention is here, but if the argument is that HP is a better property for a theme park. I would have to disagree based only on the amount of merchandise I see moving out the Star Tours shop. I'd like to see actual sales figures for the shop and the HP shops. Without those figures anecdotal evidence can go back and forth forever.

What is clear is your contention that lightsabers aren't a viable merchandising opportunity is wrong. One of the most popular Star Wars toys is and always has been the lightsaber and at WDW the experience is enhanced by the ability to build custom lightsabers. These are immensely popular and essentially the equivalent to the Potter wands. There are plenty of opportunities in the diverse galaxy of Star Wars for authentic merchandise, some of which are currently being exploited.

I would believe my contention is that merchandising opportunities are better suited for the Harry Potter franchise than Star Wars at present in the theme park setting (that is what we are discussing right?) because of said proliferation of Star Wars merchandise.

I don't believe that lightsabers are a viable marketing opportunity in a theme park setting. You can get the same lightsaber from Tatooine Trades that you can get at Target. Just a quick search of Target.com for wands yielded no results related to Harry Potter in the kids section.

My assertion is based on current supply and demand. There is a demand for Harry Potter merchandise in the theme parks due to the lack of availablity outside of said park. I believe that the demand more than likely exceeds that of Star Wars in the park, because of the lack of unique Star Wars merchandise.

You are correct that we wouldn't know for sure unless we saw the sales figures comparing HP and SW.

I believe the demand is there for SW merchandise, but it is not being realized due to the homogenization between Tatooine Traders and "real world" retail locations. I know me personally, as a big Star Wars fan, I would be more willing to buy merchandise if the selection was more eclectic.

 

[stlbobby]

I don't believe that lightsabers are a viable marketing opportunity in a theme park setting. You can get the same lightsaber from Tatooine Trades that you can get at Target. Just a quick search of Target.com for wands yielded no results related to Harry Potter in the kids section.

You cannot make a customized lightsaber at Target as you can at WDW. There is a special display at Once Upon a Toy in DTD that allows you to pick and choose all the components and make a unique lightsaber, tying in with the Star Wars mythos that a true Jedi must construct his own lightsaber.

I don't think they have the same thing at Tatooine Traders because of the size, but I really can't remember--I'm sure someone will know--but this shows the viability of the property for theme park specific merchandising.

Additionally there are other Star Wars items that can only be purchased at WDW, specifically the Disney tie-in figures like Luke Skywalker Mickey.

 

[jakeman]

You cannot make a customized lightsaber at Target as you can at WDW. There is a special display at Once Upon a Toy in DTD that allows you to pick and choose all the components and make a unique lightsaber, tying in with the Star Wars mythos that a true Jedi must construct his own lightsaber.

I don't think they have the same thing at Tatooine Traders because of the size, but I really can't remember--I'm sure someone will know--but this shows the viability of the property for theme park specific merchandising.

Additionally there are other Star Wars items that can only be purchased at WDW, specifically the Disney tie-in figures like Luke Skywalker Mickey.

I understand what you are saying. However, if we take a step back and look at it from the parent's perspective and not the child's, assuming that their children have the same interest level in Star Wars and Harry Potter, would they rather have a slightly overpriced, customized, oversized lightsaber that closely resembles a similar product at Target or a wand from the wand shop they have seen in the Harry Potter movies that they can't get anywhere else? I know, having a kid in that almost exact situation myself, where my money will be going in October.

I think the potential is there for park merchandise for SW to rival the current set up with HP, but I think it would require serious investiment and cooperation between Disney and Lucas.

Lastly, while the tie ins are great (I have a few myself) they only go so far for a Star Wars fan. I'm not sure how many different characters I can buy dressed up as Luke before it feels like a retread of the same ground.

 

[Tigger1988]

Right now, today, HP is more "in demand". Star Wars may have a larger fan base. But they aren't as devoted as the current HP fans. And Star Wars fans have had their demand for Star Wars product met for decades. Potter fans have been starving for this stuff.

You want to talk about what is "In Demand" in 2010? It's Twilight, which dominates all in the books/movie market right now.

 

[stlbobby]

I understand what you are saying. However, if we take a step back and look at it from the parent's perspective and not the child's, assuming that their children have the same interest level in Star Wars and Harry Potter, would they rather have a slightly overpriced, customized, oversized lightsaber that closely resembles a similar product at Target or a wand from the wand shop they have seen in the Harry Potter movies that they can't get anywhere else? I know, having a kid in that almost exact situation myself, where my money will be going in October.

I think the potential is there for park merchandise for SW to rival the current set up with HP, but I think it would require serious investiment and cooperation between Disney and Lucas.

Lastly, while the tie in are great (I have a few myself) they only go so far for a Star Wars fan. I'm not sure how many different characters I can buy dressed up as Luke I can buy before it feels like a retread of the same ground.

I know four kids that would absolutely go the opposite direction. In fact I know one that returned from Orlando this weekend with a custom lightsaber.

There is a great market for both, but Star Wars is still the overall reigning champ. The wands have a great buzz right now, but how many are they really selling? You're right the tie-in characters may have a limited shelf life, but they've been around a while and it was only one example. I'm sure when their popularity wanes Disney will come up with something.

I do know that Tatooine Traders is one of the most densely populated places in all of WDW, especially during Star Wars weekends.

Until someone finds actual sales figures I this could go on all day.

 

[jakeman]

I do know that Tatooine Traders is one of the most densely populated places in all of WDW, especially during Star Wars weekends.

I think this goes back to the gist of what I am saying. There is a potential there that rivals Potter, but it is not being realized by Disney or Lucas.

I think Potter has the edge right now because this is the first time you can "step into that world". SW has had that since 1988.

Only time will tell. I can say that, I would worry for Potter though in the far future. Rowling's grip on the franchise creatively may be it's undoing.

One of the things that kept Star Wars alive from RotJ to TPM was Lucas allowing others to play in his Universe.

There hasn't been any indication that Rowling is amicable to that, and it could be the long term marginalization of that franchcise.

Until someone finds actual sales figures I this could go on all day.

Well it's either this or budget analysis...:lol:

 

[stlbobby]

I just think many posters are vastly underestimating the scope and depth of the Lucas Empire. Even I was shocked when I checked out Wikipedia and saw the number of Star Wars books available. They're looking at the hype of WWoHP right now and letting that blind them to the massive self-perpetuating marketing and cultural phenomenon that is Star Wars.

It was never my contention that HP was bad or irrelevant, just that it does not rise to level of the Star Wars.

It's like comparing baseball teams. Your team may win the World Series or even a couple of Series, and may be consistently good, but saying they aren't the Yankees isn't an insult it is just a fact that the Yankees live on a different level than the rest of the league.

BTW-I'm not from NY or a Yankees fan. I'm from St. Louis and a fan of the second most successful baseball franchise, in terms of championships and WS appearances, and I realistically realize they aren't even in the same discussion as the Yankees.

And finally I think I'm going to like the Duffy Bear character I hope he brings a breath of fresh air to the parks, and if gets popular enough he seems perfect for an old school dark ride. I will also bet money that if he catches on you'll be able to find him at a Build-a-Bear near you soon.

 

[lebeau]

I think this goes back to the gist of what I am saying. There is a potential there that rivals Potter, but it is not being realized by Disney or Lucas.

Agreed.

Right now Star Wars has two sets of fans. Those that are nostalgic for the old movies (and most of these fans have aged into being casual fans at best save for the ones living in their mom's basement*) and those that love the cartoon. The cartoon is where the money is these days. It's what the kids love.

But if Lucas and co could ever reignite the movie franchise, Star Wars would once again be a powerhouse. (It is still a powerhouse among the kiddie set and some aging nerds.* But not among the general population.)

Disney could have capitalized better on Star Wars all along. One ride is a sorry use of the property. And then to let it sit neglected for decades is inexcusable. It's no wonder their relationship with Lucas has soured.

Disney should step up their use of the Star Wars property and Lucasfilm needs to release something mainstream (TV or movie) that appeals to more than the pre-school set.

Even if Disney stepped up and built a SW land on par with Potter, I think the demand for Potter is currently greater. That's purely speculation on my part and we'll never truly know unless Disney takes action. (In other words, we'll never truly know.) I'd love to be proven wrong.

You want to talk about what is "In Demand" in 2010? It's Twilight, which dominates all in the books/movie market right now.

It is true that Twilight is also a hot property. But I don't think it will have the longevity of SW or Potter. Nor does it fit the theme park model as well. The fan base is fanatical, but it has a smaller fan base than either SW or HP. And I think their merchandising needs are being adequately met.

Its a bitter battle to prove who is indeed top of the sad act pile.

Too true.

*Sorry for the stereotypes. But, you know...

 

[lebeau]

I just think many posters are vastly underestimating the scope and depth of the Lucas Empire. Even I was shocked when I checked out Wikipedia and saw the number of Star Wars books available. They're looking at the hype of WWoHP right now and letting that blind them to the massive self-perpetuating marketing and cultural phenomenon that is Star Wars.

I think you're being blinded by past accomplishments and not looking at the current state of supply and demand. As you said, you didn't even realize how many books were out there. That's because when a Star Wars book gets released, no one cares. When a Potter book gets released, it's an event.

 

[stlbobby]

I think you're being blinded by past accomplishments and not looking at the current state of supply and demand. As you said, you didn't even realize how many books were out there. That's because when a Star Wars book gets released, no one cares. When a Potter book gets released, it's an event.

Right now Star Wars has two sets of fans. Those that are nostalgic for the old movies (and most of these fans have aged into being casual fans at best save for the ones living in their mom's basement*) and those that love the cartoon. The cartoon is where the money is these days. It's what the kids love.

But if Lucas and co could ever reignite the movie franchise, Star Wars would once again be a powerhouse. (It is still a powerhouse among the kiddie set and some aging nerds.* But not among the general population.)

Disney could have capitalized better on Star Wars all along. One ride is a sorry use of the property. And then to let it sit neglected for decades is inexcusable. It's no wonder their relationship with Lucas has soured.

Disney should step up their use of the Star Wars property and Lucasfilm needs to release something mainstream (TV or movie) that appeals to more than the pre-school set.[/SIZE]

You really need to check the facts and the previous posts. Star Wars books regularly appear on paperback bestsellers lists. An easily verifiable fact I posted pages ago. At this very moment Star Wars has a hit TV cartoon that actually appeals to a much larger demographic than pre-schoolers. In fact the main audience was intended and still is the teens and college age kids that read graphic novels and watch anime, as evidenced by the producers' and network's willingness to go with a TV-PG rating. The pre-school market is an added bonus. The franchise is as popular as ever.

Star Wars actually has three sets of fans the older fans from the first trilogy, the new fans of the second trilogy who are now in there teens and twenties, and the young fans of the cartoons. Many of which are too young to even know Harry Potter exists yet. The fan base is wide ranging and massive, as evidenced by the citations and figures in my previous posts.

The other aspect your analysis ignores is how important Star Wars was and is to those earliest fans, the parents with the buying power. It defined childhood for a generation. Much like the old Disney films inspire nostalgia and a need for parents to share the experience with their children Star Wars fans perpetuate the popularity. That only becomes easier as Lucas continues to produce media for a new generation.

It is absolutely disingenuous to paint Star Wars fans with the brush of geeks living in their mom's basement. Even amongst the most rabid fans this isn't really true. It would be the same thing as saying HP only appeals to the geeky roleplaying kids and therefore isn't really mainstream popular. Both are bogus stereotypes that don't do justice to the popularity of the stories.

You have spouted a long list of opinions and conjecture but offered not a single reference for your stance. Just repeating something over and over does not make it true. And other than trite derogatory depictions of Star Wars fans, you provide no support for your moot arguments.