Al Lutz: "Management must stop bending over to pick up pennies as dollars fly over their heads"

Longhairbear

Well-Known Member
So what the heck is going on in FLA? I just read a Facebook post about a DVC member getting their reservation totally messed up upon arrival. There is a definite negative vibe stirring around WDW lately from various sources, and one coming from a DVC member is alarming. I hate seeing this, as we are DVC members, but admittedly haven't been to WDW in going on 3 years.
 

Pumbas Nakasak

Heading for the great escape.
It was in 5 of the 7 books and was on most every Potter fan's mind when it came to what they wanted to see in WWoHP. Not trying to troll, but there's nothing in Avatar or Star Wars like that.

To be fair to Disney, there are many of the guests using the parks that would look quite at home in the Star Wars cantina scene already, so the market is there
 

Cosmic Commando

Well-Known Member
To be fair to Disney, there are many of the guests using the parks that would look quite at home in the Star Wars cantina scene already, so the market is there
That's true. "The Cantina" is the closest thing. I would certainly line up to get a drink there. I think it's one of the biggest no-brainers, honestly. They freakin' own Lucasfilm outright now! It's embarrassing if they can't even build the Mos Eisley Cantina in DHS. Harry Potter had the items AND the venues prominently featured. I've heard people say "blue milk" for Star Wars... is that what they were serving in the Cantina? Never heard of it. I've said it before and I still think it: the Harry Potter series was brilliantly suited for theme park conversion, better than any franchise I can think of.
 

westcot1982

Member
That's true. "The Cantina" is the closest thing. I would certainly line up to get a drink there. I think it's one of the biggest no-brainers, honestly. They freakin' own Lucasfilm outright now! It's embarrassing if they can't even build the Mos Eisley Cantina in DHS. Harry Potter had the items AND the venues prominently featured. I've heard people say "blue milk" for Star Wars... is that what they were serving in the Cantina? Never heard of it. I've said it before and I still think it: the Harry Potter series was brilliantly suited for theme park conversion, better than any franchise I can think of.

The "blue milk" you're talking about was what Luke Skywalker and his aunt and uncle had at the dinner table towards the beginning of A New Hope. I can't remember it being in any Cantina scenes though.

On the subject of Avatar, why not put an Avatar attraction at DHS? That park needs a serious revitalization, and with Disney having the rights to Lucasfilm and Avatar, I don't understand why we still see sub-par attractions like the Backlot Tour featuring movies (like "The Rock") that people haven't seen for years. Even adding a mini Cars Land over at Pixar Place would be a start.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
That's true. "The Cantina" is the closest thing. I would certainly line up to get a drink there

Jabba's palace dance club...
Cloud City shopping... or mos eisley shopping
Hoth Playground.. or endor playground
Inside the Falcon..
death star anything..
Imagine star tours set as if you were in the cockpit of an AT&AT..

There are plenty of potentials.. you guys just need to be a bit more creative.

Hogsemeade plays second fiddle to Hogwarts through the entire series.. with only limited descriptions of it. Yet Hogsmeade represents the vast majority of space in WWoHP and people don't mind a bit. (in part because its a blend of diagon alley and hogsmeade).

What makes WWoHP work is IMMERSION. Star Wars is so different than Earth that it would be easy to build up that level of immersion. It's not about 'Oh look.. there is the wall from the movie!!' but about building convincing areas people wanted to be able to move through themselves.. and not be bound to what the camera showed them.
 

Cosmic Commando

Well-Known Member
The "blue milk" you're talking about was what Luke Skywalker and his aunt and uncle had at the dinner table towards the beginning of A New Hope. I can't remember it being in any Cantina scenes though.
Thanks. Some people have suggested "blue milk" as the Star Wars answer to butterbeer. I don't think the recognition is anywhere close, though.

Jabba's palace dance club...
Cloud City shopping... or mos eisley shopping
Hoth Playground.. or endor playground
Inside the Falcon..
death star anything..
Imagine star tours set as if you were in the cockpit of an AT&AT..

There are plenty of potentials.. you guys just need to be a bit more creative.

Hogsemeade plays second fiddle to Hogwarts through the entire series.. with only limited descriptions of it. Yet Hogsmeade represents the vast majority of space in WWoHP and people don't mind a bit. (in part because its a blend of diagon alley and hogsmeade).

What makes WWoHP work is IMMERSION. Star Wars is so different than Earth that it would be easy to build up that level of immersion. It's not about 'Oh look.. there is the wall from the movie!!' but about building convincing areas people wanted to be able to move through themselves.. and not be bound to what the camera showed them.
I agree that you can make a great Star Wars land or lands; I was talking purely about food and beverage type items. I think having any random old drink in the Cantina is the best answer from any franchise I can think of to butterbeer.
 

Rasvar

Well-Known Member
The "blue milk" you're talking about was what Luke Skywalker and his aunt and uncle had at the dinner table towards the beginning of A New Hope. I can't remember it being in any Cantina scenes though.

On the subject of Avatar, why not put an Avatar attraction at DHS? That park needs a serious revitalization, and with Disney having the rights to Lucasfilm and Avatar, I don't understand why we still see sub-par attractions like the Backlot Tour featuring movies (like "The Rock") that people haven't seen for years. Even adding a mini Cars Land over at Pixar Place would be a start.

The reason for Avatar at AK is simple, AK has no effective night time element. Avatar and Dinoland and Everest could all operate in the evening and allow for an expansion of operational capabilities. DHS can already operate extended hours. WDW has two parks with capacity shortages but AK has to have way of operating later.
 

dreamscometrue

Well-Known Member
So what the heck is going on in FLA? I just read a Facebook post about a DVC member getting their reservation totally messed up upon arrival. There is a definite negative vibe stirring around WDW lately from various sources, and one coming from a DVC member is alarming. I hate seeing this, as we are DVC members, but admittedly haven't been to WDW in going on 3 years.

Nothing's wrong. Now, we have Facebook, Twitter, etc. where people can share every little nitpicky aspect of their lives, including trips. And since people tend to 'voice' complaints much. much more frequently, one can always find something negative posted somewhere about everything.

(Edit: We have been DVC members for 5 years, have taken 10 trips on our membership so far, at multiple resorts, and never had any issue of any kind that was negative. Before we were DVC members, we didn't have problems either. I've just never gone on Facebook, twitter, etc. and posted that fact.)
 

wickedsoccer22

Active Member
Simple fact: if Avatar was as sellable as Potter, Indy or Star Wars, or even Lord of The Rings there would be companies pushing merchandise.

Not that I'm a real Avatar advocate (I only like it because it could add something to DAK), but I think it's a little bit of an unfair comparison since Avatar is one movie so far and you are comparing it to franchises that have 7 movies, 4 movies, 6 + 3 additional, and then 4 + 2 additional movies respectively.

Regardless, I agree that Avatar is no where near as sell-able as the franchises you mentioned.
 

celluloid

Well-Known Member
Jaws was not memorable for its sequels. And that is fair, but Avatar is going to have more films and it will have sequels so it is pretty fair to compare. Also Avatar is only 4 years old. If the market for it is already not as memorable, that is not a good sign. And the reason those films had sequels is because the first were so astoundingly great.

Also to counter that whole point.

ET would be a more fair comparison.(I used it awhile ago in another thread) Music is remembered, scenes are remembered, they lend themselves well to a theme park ride and they are a pop culture staple.
 

unkadug

Follower of "Saget"The Cult
Jaws was not memorable for its sequels. And that is fair, but Avatar is going to have more films and it will have sequels so it is pretty fair to compare. Also Avatar is only 4 years old. If the market for it is already not as memorable, that is not a good sign. And the reason those films had sequels is because the first were so astoundingly great.

Also to counter that whole point.

ET would be a more fair comparison.(I used it awhile ago in another thread) Music is remembered, scenes are remembered, they lend themselves well to a theme park ride and they are a pop culture staple.
3 years...
Release Date: December 18, 2009
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0499549/
 

celluloid

Well-Known Member
Just proves the point more.

Also, glad to see you posting Unkadug. I am a fan of the realistic insight sprinkled over the pixie dust. You are a member I remember from ages ago on this same site.
 

tomman710

Well-Known Member
I can't believe there is still discussion about it ... whether you like Avatar or not you cannot structure a coherent argument to disagree with the point that SW is (and most likely will always be) infinitely more popular AND now in-house.
 

ULPO46

Well-Known Member
Stop complaining unless you work for Disney parks or corporate you have not and will not see the numbers when wwohp opened at ioa in universal Orlando, wait times for hpafj were over 100 minutes long and the ride was breaking down ever 30 minutes. Universal is not perfect no theme park can be perfect when maxed out a ride shutsdow. Check out this link for a helpful tip and an eye opener from my friends at the orlando sentinel who do get paid to right reviews on Disney. http://www.orlandosentinel.com/the-...nd-mermaid-fast-pass-20121217,0,4409151.story
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Stop complaining unless you work for Disney parks or corporate you have not and will not see the numbers when wwohp opened at ioa in universal Orlando, wait times for hpafj were over 100 minutes long and the ride was breaking down ever 30 minutes. Universal is not perfect no theme park can be perfect when maxed out a ride shutsdow. Check out this link for a helpful tip and an eye opener from my friends at the orlando sentinel who do get paid to right reviews on Disney. http://www.orlandosentinel.com/the-...nd-mermaid-fast-pass-20121217,0,4409151.story
Huh?
 

ULPO46

Well-Known Member
The "blue milk" you're talking about was what Luke Skywalker and his aunt and uncle had at the dinner table towards the beginning of A New Hope. I can't remember it being in any Cantina scenes though.

On the subject of Avatar, why not put an Avatar attraction at DHS? That park needs a serious revitalization, and with Disney having the rights to Lucasfilm and Avatar, I don't understand why we still see sub-par attractions like the Backlot Tour featuring movies (like "The Rock") that people haven't seen for years. Even adding a mini Cars Land over at Pixar Place would be a start.

Yes it was a part of the movie that unless you are die hard fan and own all the books and films of how they made all 6 movies, you wont remeber what the Blue Bantha Milk was. It was just grape juice made to look like milk. Now could they make a milk drink flavored with blueberries sure but we have to wait until the highly anticipated SW Episode VII and VIII come out.
 

ULPO46

Well-Known Member
Yes, I suppose that if you feel that "Rubes" are totally without the power of observations, that could be true. However, any business would aim for the spot that was less costly and more profitable. Disney quality is close to being matched but only in rare cases. Universal gets it, and has invested money (lots of money) in bringing their standards up to what, at least, was Disney quality. But they are an exception. One might point to places like Tokyo and say that their quality is better than WDW and it very well might be true, however, it's located on the other side of the world and it's goal was to keep the Asian contingency there and stop them from needing to circumvent the globe to get that fix.

I just last night, returned from a quick trip to Dollywood. Two thing about the place were vastly superior to WDW. The Christmas lighting made Disney's look like it was designed and displayed by a group of ten year olds doing a school project. It was nothing short of spectacular. The train ride was soooo much better then Disneys in the sense that it was far more realistic, even to the point of warning riders that there was a possibility that they could get cinders in their eyes from the full sized, real steam engine and it was longer. Yet if you look past the lights you see a disorganized, dirty, cinder block and wooden patchwork reminiscent of road side carnivals.

One can go on and on about Disney quality and maintenance forever but all it takes is the ability to see and remember properly what Disney looked like years ago and know that what we see now is far superior to then. Yes, there are "maybe" more ride breakdowns then back when they were new and as far as cleanliness, even the messes made by those infamous rube tourists are minor and usually taken care of within a reasonable time frame.

Primarily I agree with you that pressure must be kept up to be sure that quality is maintained because it's possible that TDO or whatever management might visit a place like Dollywood and come back thinking that they have the Palace of Versailles here, and in a way they do. However, I find it incredibly snobbish to refer to people that may be of a less stellar background and less exposure to nice things, rubes. They are hard working people that have come to Disney for some fun and relaxation. They didn't come there to inspect the place from top to bottom. Fortunately, for Disney, that is the majority of their guests and for them they deliver what was promised. Since we all know that money is power, if they spend more then all you, get it together Disney or I'm going to whine until you do non-rubes, they won't care a tinkers damn about what think. The rubes spend lot's of money and Disney doesn't have to listen to constant dribble about how it was so much nicer back in the day. It wasn't! I know, I was there more than once in the old days. I saw it through adult eyes, not those of kids that will magnify every fun experience way beyond reality. They may have offered more "extras" then before but the numbers of guest were smaller and the ability to offer extras was a lot easier with smaller numbers.

Yes, they will run out of rubes eventually, but rubes tend to create little rubes in their spare time, so it won't be anytime soon, I'm thinking.
I agree with you 99%. But there are seven billion people in the world. since 1955 Disney has had 2 billion visitors to there parks. IT's going to last for as long as people have the money and want to goto disney parks. But if you are going with the mind to be looking at everything in detail then don't be like my dad and just dont' go to the parks if that's what is the mentality when going to the parks. DIsney will not listen to complaints we are trained not to. Disney is that last place in the world were families can feel safe and be relieved of the preassures of reality.
 

Pumbas Nakasak

Heading for the great escape.
I agree with you 99%. But there are seven billion people in the world. since 1955 Disney has had 2 billion visitors to there parks. IT's going to last for as long as people have the money and want to goto disney parks. But if you are going with the mind to be looking at everything in detail then don't be like my dad and just dont' go to the parks if that's what is the mentality when going to the parks. DIsney will not listen to complaints we are trained not to. Disney is that last place in the world were families can feel safe and be relieved of the preassures of reality.

Your trained not to listen to complaints? Wow this must be a new business technique. Disney ahead of the curve again.
 

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