I completely agree with you. This was real tragedy and I think it is more than proper for people to question why it happened. I not only think it is proper to discuss why this might have happened, I agree that it would a tragedy not to. After all it is from learning the facts and addressing the problems that can help avoid another accident. If Disney is allowed to sweep this under the rug to aviod bad press, they are leaving the door open for future accidents.
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AK worker injured
- Thread starter mousermerf
- Start date
I completely agree with you. This was real tragedy and I think it is more than proper for people to question why it happened. I not only think it is proper to discuss why this might have happened, I agree that it would a tragedy not to. After all it is from learning the facts and addressing the problems that can help avoid another accident. If Disney is allowed to sweep this under the rug to aviod bad press, they are leaving the door open for future accidents.
sbkline
Well-Known Member
I have to agree. If these people want to show the concern for the family that they are speaking of, then they should find a way to contact the family and let them know of their concern and their prayers. There wouldn't be a thing wrong with that, of course. But I highly doubt that the family of this lady is here reading this messageboard, so all of the words of sorrow and prayers are not being seen by the people to whom they are directed.
As you said, it is more to make themselves feel better and, IMO, to make themselves LOOK better to everyone else who is here reading. I may be wrong, but I would guess that many people very much want to be noticed by others saying these lofty words so that they feel like they look better in front of their peers, and get a warm fuzzy feeling inside as a result.
sbkline
Well-Known Member
Assumming, of course, that there even IS something to sweep under the rug, which should be the first thing that needs to be determined. Was this simply a careless woman who shouldn't have been where she was, or was there some negligence somewhere else in the process.
I have already stated my displeasure with obsessive Disney fanboys who will defend Disney at all costs and demonize the media for daring to report the simple facts of what happened.
On the other hand, I also don't agree with those who would jump to conclusions that anytime there is an accident, the evil Disney company is at fault and is trying to cover up the truth.
Not intending to get into a discussion of who is being considerate and who is just posting to be seen, prayers do not need to be known by the person on the receiving end to have the desired outcome.
jmvd20
Well-Known Member
Agreed.
As of now all we have is speculation but in the end it is very important to find out why the accident happened. If WDW did not have proper procedures and protocols in place then they need to be held accountable and take appropriate action to ensure the same type of circumstances do not lead to a future injury.
On the other hand if WDW did everything they were supposed to do then they need to be cleared in this incident. However - it is very rare for any accident like this to contain no errors, even if the error was not a direct cause of the accident.
Unfortunately there are times when things happen that are really no ones fault and nothing can be done to prevent them from happening again. In the end the only way to know for sure is to investigate, ask the questions, and find the facts.
As of now all we have is speculation but in the end it is very important to find out why the accident happened. If WDW did not have proper procedures and protocols in place then they need to be held accountable and take appropriate action to ensure the same type of circumstances do not lead to a future injury.
On the other hand if WDW did everything they were supposed to do then they need to be cleared in this incident. However - it is very rare for any accident like this to contain no errors, even if the error was not a direct cause of the accident.
Unfortunately there are times when things happen that are really no ones fault and nothing can be done to prevent them from happening again. In the end the only way to know for sure is to investigate, ask the questions, and find the facts.
jmvd20
Well-Known Member
MythBuster
Active Member
Yes, is it is hard to find the actual truth unless you talk to someone who was there at the time. And I know someone who works at PW and was there when it happened. Apparently, she was at the load station making sure the lap bars came down and the door was closed, somehow when she closed the door , a piece of her clothing got caught on the Ride Vehicle and she got dragged along the platform and around the corner and hit her head on an access ladder.
Then I found out this the 5th time this has happened, and before it was minor injuries and this the first time someone died from the platform fall.
So she wasn't in a unauthorized area, she was dragged by a ride vehicle into a unauthorized area.
sbkline
Well-Known Member
If that account is true, then it doesn't sound to me like the accident was anyone's fault. Disney certainly can't be blamed because part of her clothing got caught in the door, and I wouldn't really fault her for that either. It's just an accident that can happen. I suppose Disney could institute a stricter dress code that prohibits the kind of loose clothing that could be caught in the door of a ride, but I'm not really sure what else could be done other than that.
sbkline
Well-Known Member
Very true, of course.
But my point is that some were complaining that we are being insensitive by discussing these things and that the focus should be on voicing our concerns for the family. But since the family is most likely not on these boards reading these posts, it's kind of a non-issue. But if people are so concerned for the family as they claim to be, then don't tell us all of these sympathies and concerns. Find a way to tell them. A person certainly doesn't need to know about prayers offered up for them in order for them to be effective. But comforting words are sometimes helpful in bringing a little bit of comfort to a horrible situation. But those words are not helpful at all unless they are told to the people who need the comfort.
Assuming that what hakunamatata said is accurate and there is paper trail and or testimony to prove it I think that Disney will be found at fault in this case. In theory no attraction operating in correct working order should be able to cause a persons death or injury unless someone circumvents safety measures. (ie guest getting out of a log on Splash Mountain, or someone disabling a safety device). If an unforeseen event results in an injury it is the responsibility of the attraction owner to investigate the event and make appropriate changes to prevent a recurrence. This could be in the form of retraining, modifying the attraction etc. If this chain of events has happened before and Disney can not show that appropriate measures were taken to prevent it there is a good possibility that they will legally be found at fault and rightly so. However, if Disney can prove that every time this event occurred adequate steps were taken to prevent it then they will not be at fault.
AstareGod
New Member
Disney already has a specified costume (uniform) for this attraction, as well as just about any front-line role where the CM interacts with guests. They also have strict dress guidelines, such as the shirt must be tucked in, etc etc etc. The guidelines themselves are strict, but I'm not so sure of the enforcement.
However, if the account quoted is true, I think it'll be very hard to prove who was at fault; if the CM wasn't in proper costume, it could be faulted to her, but if her managers never enforced the dress codes, it may somehow shift the blame to Disney. Being Disney, I'd imagine they have cameras all over that attraction, but who knows how much those would help.
KeeKee
Well-Known Member
Since most of us here are not management at WDW, it is really rather pointless to discuss the details of the accident. It will certainly not affect any procedures at WDW in any way if someone from another state is able to point to the guilty party.
I would argue that it would serve the greater good for those who pray to do so for the family members and friends of those involved in these unfortunate incidents.
The people who should be discussing the particulars are WDW management and staff. They are the only ones that have any direct influence on anything that might bring about any change if there need be.
pirate-princess
New Member
i just read that she passed away, i told my family and everyone is in shock and very sad for the family
best wishes to the family xx
best wishes to the family xx
jmvd20
Well-Known Member
Nope...
It is not pointless for us to discuss such things. This is in fact a discussion forum and this is as good a subject to talk about as anything else.
KeeKee
Well-Known Member
In your prior post you said this about prayer for the families:
"In reality what good does posting something like that achieve other than making us momentarily feel better about the situation?"
I would say to you that you can't have it both ways. If it's OK to discuss the particulars of the accidents, then it's OK to post sentiments about compassion for the families. After all, it is a discussion forum, right?
jmvd20
Well-Known Member
I never said that people should not say those things all I asked is what good does it serve to say those things. Since you re-posted my comment I will ask where exactly did I state that anything should not be discussed?
My statement above was in response to a comment that we should not be discussing the particulars of the incident because this isn't the place to do so. When reading the remainder of my comments in this thread it is clear to see that I have been pro-discussion all along...
KeeKee
Well-Known Member
What good does it do for us to discuss it, whether or not we can? All I said was that it won't affect anything at Disney.
I agree with whomever said that the emphasis and focus should be on the family and friends of the people involved in these incidents, not on who's at fault. That's for WDW to sort out. It really won't matter how many posts are racked up here "discussing" it. Unless there is a management type hanging out that might be influenced by something that they hear, it won't amount to a hill of beans.
duck_daddy
New Member
I don't need your education, got plenty of my own thanks! I'm not fighting for the Mouse and had you actually read my previous posts you would have been able to see that! If OSHA or some other regulating officials say it's Disney's fault, then it's Disney's fault. However, neither you nor I know the details. The post you actually quoted from me was concerning the ruthless(IMHO) reporting going on in todays world. Please don't try to educate the educated.
Wrong - what we have is a delay in reporting an incident that has opened a can of worms over other CM incidents on this and other AK rides - though minor have gone without reporting.
jmvd20
Well-Known Member
Well, since I am wrong... please enlighten me, as I have never dealt with any injury reports, or an on site safety evaluation by OSHA, or OSHA training classes, and I surely do not have to ensure that we comply with OSHA and other safety regulations on a daily basis
Who or what tells you that "minor" injuries need to be reported and to who are they supposed to be reported to? Also what are you classifying as a minor injury?
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