AK walk from bus stop to gate - in need of moving walkway?

[The Empress Lilly]

I can call it an efficient design because in more than 100 trips to AK, including the days it reached capacity when E:E opened, I have never once seen buses backed up. I would classify that as an efficient design. Wouldn't you?

In one single visit I have seen that the buses drop people off a quarter of a mile from the entrance.

Why does this straightforward observation, that can be made by an eight year old, that there is a quarter of mile distance involved require a degree in civil engineering? But not the grand statement, that relies on one hundred trips of extensive field study, that the system is so effcient that the buses wont back up even on the busiest of days?



I'm sure it is an efficent system. For the buses.
For pedestrians, it is two hundred feet too far away from the entrance to be efficient.

 

[Joshua&CalebDad]

I can call it an efficient design because in more than 100 trips to AK, including the days it reached capacity when E:E opened, I have never once seen buses backed up. I would classify that as an efficient design. Wouldn't you?

Would it help this argument if told you that I was a civil engineering with a masters degree in mass transit & urban design and yes, AK's setup is a very efficient design? Just asking.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

Would it help this argument if told you that I was a civil engineering with a masters degree in mass transit & urban design and yes, AK's setup is a very efficient design? Just asking.

It sure would help! In another discussion debating the efficiency of the AK's setup, where we all, no doubt, agree that AK's setup is most efficient.

This thread however discusses walking distance. What does your masters degree in mass transit & urban design say about having to haul three tired kids a quarter of a mile after a day in a theme park?

 

[Master Yoda]

In one single visit I have seen that the buses drop people off a quarter of a mile from the entrance.

Why does this straightforward observation, that can be made by an eight year old, that there is a quarter of mile distance involved require a degree in civil engineering? But not the grand statement, that relies on one hundred trips of extensive field study, that the system is so effcient that the buses wont back up even on the busiest of days?



I'm sure it is an efficent system. For the buses.
For pedestrians, it is two hundred feet too far away from the entrance to be efficient.

But what happens when an entire park empties out at closing? Wouldn't it be much more efficient to have an area past the turnstiles, bag check and tram loading for those people to go. Say something like a long 1/8 of a mile walkway that is segregated from those other areas. Or would a more efficient design be one like at DHS where the bus stops are right next to all of those things and the crowds can back up into all of those areas making it a big mess.

I think the eight year old might have missed that one little thing.

Would it help this argument if told you that I was a civil engineering with a masters degree in mass transit & urban design and yes, AK's setup is a very efficient design? Just asking.

Just a tad.

 

[Parrain]

I dont mind the walk, but I do like the moving sidewalk at Universal.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

But what happens when an entire park empties out at closing? Wouldn't it be much more efficient to have an area past the turnstiles, bag check and tram loading for those people to go. Say something like a long 1/8 of a mile walkway that is segregated from those other areas. Or would a more efficient design be one like at DHS where the bus stops are right next to all of those things and the crowds can back up into all of those areas making it a big mess.

I think the eight year old might have missed that one little thing.


Just a tad.

Dont keep changing the subject: why does it require 'a degree in civil engineering and design mass transportation systems for a living' to criticise the design, but no such thing to praise the design?

Why the double standard?

Did you not maybe get carried away a teenie weenie little bit there?

Any system that can involve a quarter of a mile walk for small children and the handicapped when there is an enormous, blank slate to work with is not efficient - not for pedestrians it isn't.
Even in the current set-up, as is, the eight year old may only notice the long walk. The forty year old notices that one could easily build a moving sidewalk in the current setup, and either simply switch it off during peak hours, or rely on lines forming to get on it to make ambulant people choose to walk next to it. This leaves both the current crowd dispersal efficiency intact and solves the long walk involved.

Does it help if I say I have a masters in planology?

 

[The Empress Lilly]

Here is a solution as above. A too long walk, too much sun and rain, and exhausted pedestrians.
The efficient solution? A simple covering, a cheap moving sidewalk, and walking space next to it to prevent overcrowding or pileups. You can see this setup deployed in many airports too, where they deal with similar crowd moving problems as theme parks:

 

[flynnibus]

.

DAK by contrast was designed with a bus stop as main mode of transport - which unlike the monorail doesn't thoughtfully drop you off directly in front of the park, but a quarter of a mile away.

It's simply poor design.

I for one am happy there is no big bus lineup near the park entrance. The noise, the traffic, and the crowding - stuff no one wants blocking the entrance

 

[George Lucas on a Bench]

EPCOT could rock that covered moving walk.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

I for one am happy there is no big bus lineup near the park entrance. The noise, the traffic, and the crowding - stuff no one wants blocking the entrance

Busses are decidedly non-magical to me too!

It's why I love the original MK design so much. Arrive by boat or monorail. Separate the park from the real world with its real traffic and real roads. For all the waiting and stress and overcrowding, I still prefer it over arriving by bus next to the main entrance.

 

[unkadug]

White Oak. Even better than Savannah is the Audubon Zoo in New Orleans.

Here's a pic of their Sea Lion coliseum behind the trees.

Actually, I believe those are Live Oak in Savannah. White Oaks are tall and thin whereas the Live oak is more massive and sprawling.

 

[Joshua&CalebDad]

It sure would help! In another discussion debating the efficiency of the AK's setup, where we all, no doubt, agree that AK's setup is most efficient.

This thread however discusses walking distance. What does your masters degree in mass transit & urban design say about having to haul three tired kids a quarter of a mile after a day in a theme park?

But what happens when an entire park empties out at closing? Wouldn't it be much more efficient to have an area past the turnstiles, bag check and tram loading for those people to go. Say something like a long 1/8 of a mile walkway that is segregated from those other areas. Or would a more efficient design be one like at DHS where the bus stops are right next to all of those things and the crowds can back up into all of those areas making it a big mess.

I think the eight year old might have missed that one little thing.


Just a tad.

Well in my humle opinion this system works just fine. However, I would like to note that I never truly stated that I had a degree in civil engineering and a masters in mass transit and urban design. I only asked if it would help the discussion.

But lets be serious, I also have 2 small children and know the rigors of having to haul both of them back to the room after a day of not stop walking. If you take a step back, anyone who is honest with themselves can agree that the Disney system, which includes the location of the buses and their proximity to the entrances, is one of the most effiecient designs to move a large number of people.

The issue isn't the design, its the fact that we as Americans have become a tad bit lazy and are used to having everything spoon fed to us. The moment something becomes too difficult we start crying that the system is broken. Instead of placing blame on third parties, why not take a second to look inward and see if there is anything that you yourself can do to improve the situation.And that's my rant for the evening.

Good night and Good Luck.

 

[FettFan]

Actually, I believe those are Live Oak in Savannah. White Oaks are tall and thin whereas the Live oak is more massive and sprawling.

Thats why I thought they were White Oaks in the Savannah picture. Whereas in the Audubon Zoo New Orleans pic, they are most definitely Live Oaks.

 

[FettFan]

Here is a solution as above. A too long walk, too much sun and rain, and exhausted pedestrians.
The efficient solution? A simple covering, a cheap moving sidewalk, and walking space next to it to prevent overcrowding or pileups. You can see this setup deployed in many airports too, where they deal with similar crowd moving problems as theme parks:

Proved me wrong. I thought those things were only made for interior spaces...airports, shopping malls, etc.

 

[unkadug]

Thats why I thought they were White Oaks in the Savannah picture. Whereas in the Audubon Zoo New Orleans pic, they are most definitely Live Oaks.

I agree with your assessment of the Audubon Zoo, however...

http://www.ci.savannah.ga.us/citywe...a73c4/$FILE/webforsyth_arboretum_brochure.pdf

​

A​

History​

Of​

Excellence​

​

Majestic live oaks​

draped with​

spanish moss.​

Thick canopies reaching​

over centuries-old parks.​

Trees are forever linked​

to the impression and​

experience of Savannah.​

The Forsyth Park
Arboretum acts as a living
showcase of Savannah’s
flourishing and diverse
urban forest. Use the
map inside to guide your
quiet exploration of the
arboretum. Take your
time as you leisurely stroll
along Forsyth’s diamond​

patterned path, and learn
the common and botanical
names of over 50 species
of trees. Enjoy this jewel
of Savannah.​

​

 

[Animaniac93-98]

Here is a solution as above. A too long walk, too much sun and rain, and exhausted pedestrians.
The efficient solution? A simple covering, a cheap moving sidewalk, and walking space next to it to prevent overcrowding or pileups. You can see this setup deployed in many airports too, where they deal with similar crowd moving problems as theme parks:

Just out of curiosity, does DLP have trams in the lot? I remember hearing they didn't.

 

[DisneyJunkie]

But lets be serious, I also have 2 small children and know the rigors of having to haul both of them back to the room after a day of not stop walking. If you take a step back, anyone who is honest with themselves can agree that the Disney system, which includes the location of the buses and their proximity to the entrances, is one of the most effiecient designs to move a large number of people.

The issue isn't the design, its the fact that we as Americans have become a tad bit lazy and are used to having everything spoon fed to us. The moment something becomes too difficult we start crying that the system is broken. Instead of placing blame on third parties, why not take a second to look inward and see if there is anything that you yourself can do to improve the situation.And that's my rant for the evening.

Sorry, but that's simply not true. As someone who is "honest with themselves", what I will agree with - as evidenced by the design at AK - is that the Disney system is MOSTLY (but not always and not consistently) one of the more efficient designs for moving a large number of people. (If the monorail system linked all the parks, I might rate them higher.) And looking inwardly, I see that the situation is the poor placement of the bus area in relation to the distance to the entrance of the park.....something the common WDW-loving visitor cannot do anything about as far as improving it. That ability only belongs to the Disney company higher-ups.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

Well in my humle opinion this system works just fine. However, I would like to note that I never truly stated that I had a degree in civil engineering and a masters in mass transit and urban design. I only asked if it would help the discussion.

But lets be serious, I also have 2 small children and know the rigors of having to haul both of them back to the room after a day of not stop walking. If you take a step back, anyone who is honest with themselves can agree that the Disney system, which includes the location of the buses and their proximity to the entrances, is one of the most effiecient designs to move a large number of people.

The issue isn't the design, its the fact that we as Americans have become a tad bit lazy and are used to having everything spoon fed to us.

Disney transport is okay. Although I have too often spend too much time getting from A to B. Transport seems to be cursed forever by an absense of an overarching master plan during the Eisner hotel mania. WDW should've been clustered, in a few hubs.

But you'll get to DAK reasonably soon in reasonable comfort Where however a needless quarter of a mile walk is a shame. I once walked that back and forth last trip. From the park to the bus and back to park because I forgot something and then back to the bus. Goodness. That was quite a hike in the Florida heat and humidity.

The MK has ferry's, hotel boats, two monorail lines, walkway and buses arriving at its gate, all in a smaller area than DAK. That's funtional design. At DAK, it is only buses and tram, but yet you walk further.

The distance is not the end of the world. But I do get the impression it was designed by a fit person, not used to hauling kids around, sitting behind a desk in an airconditioned room. Where he was perhaps more concerned about the efficiency of the busing system than the needs of those people not fit and healthy and without children.

I do agree Americans are too fat and too lazy. But I'm not American, I'm European. And, oh irony, it is in the European Disney park that they use the lazy option proposed by the OP, that of a moving sidewalk.

WDW will not build a moving sidewalk at DAK any time soon. My concern in all this is that my next trip to WDW will be with a special needs person. She can walk, but she has limited energy. It's a shame if it is expended having to walk to a bus, having to stand waiting for a bus, having to walk in the blistering heat to a bus. Those sort of things matter to her. Me, I'm fine. I'll run that distance, for fun. But not everybody has that option. What I want is not an automated sidewalk - it's not going to happen anyway - but a consideration in every design decision of as many special needs as can reasonably be taken into account. There are a lot of people in between fit and handicapped - the elderly, the pregnant, the very young, the sickly, those with physical limitations. They don't need ECV's. They need shaded waiting areas and short walking distances.

I would like to note that I never truly stated that I had a masters in planology I only asked if it would help the discussion.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

Just out of curiosity, does DLP have trams in the lot? I remember hearing they didn't.

I don't think so and don't think they ever had. Paris opted for the same solution as Universal did - a system of moving sidewalks.

 

[luv]

I never think about it when i go to Disney, but I do love the valet parking and moving sidewalks at Uni. The walking really only bugs me in the extreme heat or rain, though.

After eight days at WDW, I took my mom to Uni. She liked the valet, but when she got to the moving sidewalks, she said, "Now THIS is how it ought to be done! MY GOD!!" I chuckled.