Accident Details?

[RREngineer]

Originally posted by imagineer boy
Although, I have a question. I don't think that Pluto appears during the Princess segment of the parade, so what was Javier doing there? R.I.P. Javier

The Princess Float is the second to last float in the parade. Javier's position as Pluto in the parade was a walking character in front of the finale float. Being Javier he was never one to come running up at the last minute, he would always come out just ahead of his float and wait. As the reports have stated he was hit by the last section of the Princess Float. The Princess Float was staged to go onto the parade route (on the park side of the train tracks), which would mean that the Finale float was right behind it (on the other side of the train tracks). So he was not really "with" the Princess Float, he had just crossed the train tracks ahead of his float.

 

[Tom]

Originally posted by mkt
from what I understand, he was declared dead on property... but i've heard different stories from different people

I know all about "crushing" accidents, as I am heavily involved with OSHA and safety in the Construction Industry. Again, not to be disrespectful, but I would sincerely hope that he passed at the scene. I say this because crushing injuries can cause serious trauma and pain - and thus I would wish immediate death for anyone, so that they don't suffer.

Again, this accident is awful, and I can see how any family would react looking for someone to blame - its human nature. As I'm sure it will pan out: the float driver did his job properly, the driver's guide did his job properly, and Pluto was just in a bad place at a bad time, mainly due to his limited vision.

If I were an investigating officer, I'd leave it at that rather than try to point blame at people, however I would encourage some refresh training for the costumed performers - reminding them to stay FAR away from the floats when they have their "heads" on. Just safe practice.

However, in this sad society of sue-happy people, I'm sure Disney will get blamed for something, whether it be insufficient training for him, for the spotters, or that by him wearing a head he was put in danger by the company - so sad.

Anyway, I thank all of you for explaining the situation to me. I've loved all the stories and find it always amazing how one person can touch so many lives, even those of people he's never "directly" met. God Bless Javier, his family, and friends!

 

[daksimba]

From the information I have gathered today:

He did die on property, but reports are that it wasn't immediate. But, he also wasn't concious, so he most likely didn't feel a thing.

He travels in parade behind the Princess float, but like many characters he was known to sometimes travel ahead and "play" with the dispatch coordinator. He hadn't crossed the sight line yet, so the guests never would have seen him. It's a common practice in most parades. Something that will most likely be looked at.

The company has also started changes in the way parades are being handled. Floats are to remain at least 50 feet apart now unless at the loading zone. Any backstage crossing in front of floats is being limited. Plus, nobody is to approach a moving float at any time. These are all based off initial concerns and request by OSHA and OCPD.


As for Pluto, his vision is actually very good for the height range. BUT, the vision for straight down is blocked. The only way to see your feet is to bend over, almost in a toe-touching position. With my experience, my guess this is what caused Javier to lose his balance. He felt the float catch his foot, and the combination of the moving float and bending over to see his foot caused his body to fall. Again, only in my guess.

But, as for forward looking, Pluto sees better than most characters. As any costume, the side vision is limited, but is average for most characters.

 

[Pixie Duster]

I returned to work yesterday after the accident. I had 4 different guests question me about the accident, only one was nice and respectful about it.

 

[Atta83]

Thats sad to hear so many ppl wanted to know information about the accident, but it is nice to hear that one of them had the respect about it. I am glad to hear you went back to work yesterday but it must of been hard. My frined said it was really weird in the tunnel the past two days....

Atta

 

[xfkirsten]

I was just at Disneyland yesterday, and while watching Parade of the Stars, I noticed that the space between floats and performers is MUCH larger than it used to be. I was glad to see that immediate changes are being made, not just at WDW, but at DL as well.

-Kirsten

 

[qonoximiento]

Safety improvements could have saved his life...perhaps

Let say for example the following issues:

As we all know the parade vehicles..i.e. (Princess, finale and others) are equiped with "Human Sensors" and "Radio Frequencies" systems that provides a sort of early warning to the Main or foot Coordinator and the "emergency light system" to signal the ONLY driver to stop in case of an emergency or obstruction in the path of such Parade.

In my humble opinion, this system is absolutely inefficient, since it failed to stop a fatality, nonetheless an accident/injury.
You all would agree (Employees of Walt Disney) that if sensors were attached or placed within the spaces (three section of a particular floats) triggering an emergency signal to the driver...when such space were occupied!...This would have save the life of my COUSIN!


I think you would also agree that if all characters were equiped with radio system enabling access to the driver in a wireless (802.11, GSM....),manner, and also enabling to stop movement independently and immediately...this also could have saved my cousin's life (I strongly believe...)

How about these radio shack camera...that could cover all these blind spots this driver currently experience...versus depending on the lateral safety personnel, the Foot Coordinator...and the light..human triggered system....how about that??????

I do not know..why this event is not equipped with such high tech systems.., used by other adjacent parks..rides and so fourth...(even military and commercial use these devices (Not expensive)...

How about OSHA noticing the height, wheel and clearance of these floats and implementing positive changes?????

How about, covering and sealing the same apertures/space, (like the monorails), where my Cousin reportly entangled his costume?????? I truly believe...he would be alive right know... alone with me and his children.

How about...decreasing the railroad tracks spaces, thus avoiding loose clothing, costume parts/pieces getting entangled/caught into it?????

The path...staging area......the visual aperture of these costumes...how about increasing the wide (width) space before commencement into the Parade path....as I understand characters with costumes have tripped on the left side sidewalk....and as I also understand... a version states..."Your cousin tripped and lost his balance in this very particular area....How about ensuring this fatal possibility was never even mentioned???????

Politically and economically....is it that Walt Disney takes such emphasis to these safety measures...as how it awards its employee with minimun wage...without regards to the ever increasing living standards....Does $6.50...$6.70..rings a bell...anyone??????? How about $ 8.00 $10.00 an hour???? These employee deserve best!

I truely believe... if Walt Disney does not change its safety measures...every employee that worked/workswith my cousin, are in great danger and exposed to suffer the same experience....

I propose Walt Disney to NOT meet OSHA and other institution standard...but to EXCEEDS its safety standards...and in a totally volunteering form...there is no reason or rationality to standby or wait for 'RED TAPE' or policy dragging changes.....THESE CHANGES SHOULD TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY!

I refer to the Orlando Sentenial....where your Employer has eluded to NOT change its safety standards measures!!!!


Sincerely....Javier's Cousin and Family!

 

[Pixie Duster]

*cough*

 

[Tom]

Re: Safety improvements could have saved his life...perhaps

Wow, that was a lot of reading. Unfortunately, not every accident is avoidable. Blame can be pointed at a lot of people, but ultimately, every individual should be responsible for their own actions.

This was a tasteful thread, until the post that bashed WDW and its safety policies and practices. It saddens me that everyone is looking for someone to blame, and in such a sad time, over a sad event.

Again, every person should be responsible, 100% for their own actions. As I've been reminded in my over 100 hours of OSHA training, OSHA sets the "...minimum safety standards to create a safe and healthy working environment..." and assumes that every worker has a certain set of responsibilites to ensure their own safety as well. If one's job puts you in a large suit, with limited visibiltiy and mobility, one should place themselves as far from moving vehicles and other obstacles as possible, to ensure that one is not in a hazardous situation.

There becomes a point where safety measures can overcome effeciency, economy and production. If WDW were to implement military standard motion detection devices, install multiple-angle cameras, install rigid skirting to completely encompass the wheels and axles, and relocate or alter the railroad tracks - the parade would then cost far too much to cost-effectively perform.

I am in NO WAY degrading the impact of this loss, or saying that Javier's passing is ANY less sad. I am simply defending the "employers" of the country by saying that Safety is two-sided, and that no amount of OSHA-imposed or Employer-imposed measures can prevent any accident.

As I have said before, I am deeply saddened by the loss of our beloved Cast Member, family member, friend and entertainer - and pray for his soul and those who were affected. Please accept his passing, and know that while he was here, he was doing what he loved (even if it was for Minimum Wage) - Entertaining and filling the hearts of children, young and old!

 

[mkt]

Re: Safety improvements could have saved his life...perhaps

Originally posted by qonoximiento
Let say for example the following issues:

As we all know the parade vehicles..i.e. (Princess, finale and others) are equiped with "Human Sensors" and "Radio Frequencies" systems that provides a sort of early warning to the Main or foot Coordinator and the "emergency light system" to signal the ONLY driver to stop in case of an emergency or obstruction in the path of such Parade.

In my humble opinion, this system is absolutely inefficient, since it failed to stop a fatality, nonetheless an accident/injury.
You all would agree (Employees of Walt Disney) that if sensors were attached or placed within the spaces (three section of a particular floats) triggering an emergency signal to the driver...when such space were occupied!...This would have save the life of my COUSIN!


I think you would also agree that if all characters were equiped with radio system enabling access to the driver in a wireless (802.11, GSM....),manner, and also enabling to stop movement independently and immediately...this also could have saved my cousin's life (I strongly believe...)

How about these radio shack camera...that could cover all these blind spots this driver currently experience...versus depending on the lateral safety personnel, the Foot Coordinator...and the light..human triggered system....how about that??????

I do not know..why this event is not equipped with such high tech systems.., used by other adjacent parks..rides and so fourth...(even military and commercial use these devices (Not expensive)...

How about OSHA noticing the height, wheel and clearance of these floats and implementing positive changes?????

How about, covering and sealing the same apertures/space, (like the monorails), where my Cousin reportly entangled his costume?????? I truly believe...he would be alive right know... alone with me and his children.

How about...decreasing the railroad tracks spaces, thus avoiding loose clothing, costume parts/pieces getting entangled/caught into it?????

The path...staging area......the visual aperture of these costumes...how about increasing the wide (width) space before commencement into the Parade path....as I understand characters with costumes have tripped on the left side sidewalk....and as I also understand... a version states..."Your cousin tripped and lost his balance in this very particular area....How about ensuring this fatal possibility was never even mentioned???????

Politically and economically....is it that Walt Disney takes such emphasis to these safety measures...as how it awards its employee with minimun wage...without regards to the ever increasing living standards....Does $6.50...$6.70..rings a bell...anyone??????? How about $ 8.00 $10.00 an hour???? These employee deserve best!

I truely believe... if Walt Disney does not change its safety measures...every employee that worked/workswith my cousin, are in great danger and exposed to suffer the same experience....

I propose Walt Disney to NOT meet OSHA and other institution standard...but to EXCEEDS its safety standards...and in a totally volunteering form...there is no reason or rationality to standby or wait for 'RED TAPE' or policy dragging changes.....THESE CHANGES SHOULD TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY!

I refer to the Orlando Sentenial....where your Employer has eluded to NOT change its safety standards measures!!!!


Sincerely....Javier's Cousin and Family!

BRAVO!! Very well said. Your cousin was a good man, and I am proud to have worked with him and have known him. He will be missed. Mis bendicionas a su familia en su tiempo de perdida... que miren a Dios en este tiempo y les aseguro que Javier esta con el, fuera de el sufrimiento aqui.

-Robert R.

 

[daksimba]

Re: Safety improvements could have saved his life...perhaps

Originally posted by qonoximiento

I refer to the Orlando Sentenial....where your Employer has eluded to NOT change its safety standards measures!!!!

Sorry, but you are very wrong here. Several steps, which I have mentioned in the various threads, has already been taking place.


And please don't quote the Sentenial, which would have plastered a headline screaming PLUTO IS DEAD if they thought it would sell more papers. The very fact that they kept bringing up that Javier was in Pluto was bad enough, and very sad. As is their previous articles talking about people in Orlando that used to be characters, and the specific characters they did.


To be blunt, Disney isn't going to shut down the park because of 1 accident in 33 YEARS of running parades. Yes, policies and saftey measures will be looked into and changed, some of which has already started, but nothing can be immediate.

We take pride in the fact that we perform in Walt Disney's Entertainment. We do our best to try to make the best entertainment possible, and the safest. But nothing is 100% safe, and Javier's death reminds us of this.

Many of the things you mention are good ideas, and some are overkill. Some are also just impractical. A monitor system on the floats is good, and a similar system that is used on the Universe of Energy cars would work well. But cameras for the blind spots would be almost impossible. Many of these floats have so many blind spots that the inside would be nothing but a wall of monitors. And then you are pulling the attention of the driver away from what is most important, the road in front of him. That is the reason for the coordinators on the ground. And they already have a direct line to the drivers.

As for the characters having communication with the drivers, it really just isn't practical. Many of the costumes just don't allow a way to wear anything. And, once again, you get into the cell phone problem. It is another thing distracting the driver away from driving. You can have way too many voices in a drivers ear.

You mention that many of Javier's fellow performers may be in danger. We recognize more than anybody those dangers. Yet we still perform because we trust each other. We trust that the driver is watching for us, and that the coordinators are watching for us. We are also watching for ourselves. But we also understand that overreaction is sometimes just as bad as doing nothing.

And an important thing to remember. We are all taught that we are to be aware of our location at all times. Despite our limited vision, we know we have more vision than the drivers. We can turn and look all around us, they can't. And we are also taught that going in between float sections is against policy. Unfortunally, these are things that have become lax over the years, on both our side and Disney's. But these are things that are being reinforced more than ever, and I'm guessing will not be subject to laxness again.

Had it been somebody else, I would stand by the statement that I'm sure Javier would be performing tomorrow, just like we will.

 

[daksimba]

I apoligize now if I sound like I'm coming off as harsh. I'm just a very blunt person, and have a tendacy to speak my mind without sugarcoating things.

And I always speak my mind when it comes to the product that I love to create. Entertainment, and anything in the arts, is a very special product that is a reflection of yourself. And we always take a stance when somebody goes after that reflection.

 

[qonoximiento]

I respect and value your opinions....

"I would like to address your opinions;

The problem here is that you actually, establish or believe...that the death in question was an accident...when OSHA is still conducting an investigation and ultimately an independent investigation has not even commenced!"

Wow, that was a lot of reading. Unfortunately, not every accident is avoidable. Blame can be pointed at a lot of people, but ultimately, every individual should be responsible for their own actions.

"If you read carefully, no fingers are being pointed, instead FACTS are being exposed...no opinions nor blaming....I presented possible options/solutions to avoid another tragic death! Even though every entity should be responsible for their own actions...,I agree,....No one should be exposed to such unsafe situations/environment....since the location of this terrible incident is liable for its negligence as well.

You see if you are legally on your own legal property...then you are responsible for your actions...in this country....we have private property as well!

I am sure you've heard of big corporation performing recall on its product...for the consumer of course... I am sure would would not drive your vehicle if its brakes were faulty I am sure you are aware that insurance companies favor vehicles with ABS brakes versus outdated brake system...again SAFETY and UPGRADES."


This was a tasteful thread, until the post that bashed WDW and its safety policies and practices. It saddens me that everyone is looking for someone to blame, and in such a sad time, over a sad event.

"No bashing against WDW as a whole...but yes on certain departments.....again no blame! to anyone in particular...but proposals...facts...! Indeed a sad time...in fact a lost of LIFE..one that has no price...never to return! One that in my opinion could have been prevented!"

Again, every person should be responsible, 100% for their own actions. As I've been reminded in my over 100 hours of OSHA training, OSHA sets the "...minimum safety standards to create a safe and healthy working environment..." and assumes that every worker has a certain set of responsibilites to ensure their own safety as well. If one's job puts you in a large suit, with limited visibiltiy and mobility, one should place themselves as far from moving vehicles and other obstacles as possible, to ensure that one is not in a hazardous situation.

" True...again the problem here...you are missing it completely....for example: He was a diabetic..meaning that his condition could have made him unbalance and confused (Not establishing this fact as an excuse) but this could occur to anybody...a cast member or even a tourist...If not aware, us humans are complicated entities with an array of personal situations....again, if the proposed safety measures were taken...this fatality could have been avoided....and may be avoided in the future!

It seems that you base your opinions on a perfect assumption...one that is not considering all aspects and situations."

There becomes a point where safety measures can overcome effeciency, economy and production. If WDW were to implement military standard motion detection devices, install multiple-angle cameras, install rigid skirting to completely encompass the wheels and axles, and relocate or alter the railroad tracks - the parade would then cost far too much to cost-effectively perform.

"You see now you sound as if you actually own lots of stocks on this corporation...and place materialism/money against a human LIFE...this speaks for itself! ....However, not all of these solution need to be implemented that is absurd...yet if only one of those were implemented my cousin would be alive today...lets be sincere here! No need to exagerate! Please read again and comprehend that only one of those solutions would have been enough"

I am in NO WAY degrading the impact of this loss, or saying that Javier's passing is ANY less sad. I am simply defending the "employers" of the country by saying that Safety is two-sided, and that no amount of OSHA-imposed or Employer-imposed measures can prevent any accident.

" Again...no pointing fingers! I do understand your position for big Corporations/employers and perhaps disregard for the employeers....Private property...is simply that private..liability is completely attached....I also emphasis that safety is a 'two edge sword' However, the upper hand, control and capability lays on the employer....upgrades on safety must be implemented to ensure and maintain a safe working environment...especially for situations that are beyond control! "

As I have said before, I am deeply saddened by the loss of our beloved Cast Member, family member, friend and entertainer - and pray for his soul and those who were affected. Please accept his passing, and know that while he was here, he was doing what he loved (even if it was for Minimum Wage) - Entertaining and filling the hearts of children, young and old!

" The fact I am expressing in this forum...reflects my acceptance of his "passing" as you said...I am also elighted to see how much love he receive in return from his co-workers and WDW as a whole...I would say that anywhere!

His passing, does not in anyway ensures the safety for his co-workers and others in similar situations...believe me....his death will not be in vain! Yes indead...minimum wage...and he was a happy person...that has no price....my ilustration and comparison to minimum wage was exactly that, an ilustration to a minimum safefy system that is outdated and NEEDS to be changed and outdated that NEEDS to be upgraded!

My concern is for the employees not the employers....those in management and in ownership...do not expose themselve to the type of hazards employee do!"

 

[qonoximiento]

Re: to Orlando Sentenial

I would like to take it step by step:

Sorry, but you are very wrong here. Several steps, which I have mentioned in the various threads, has already been taking place.

"Can you elaborate a little more, please? AS I mentioned before, we are in the dark...we have not receive a copy of WDW investigation report, the Sheriff report and OSHA...All we have are Hearsay...version that change to one extreme to the other...however, what we do agree, (based on sources) are the safety procedures, policies and implementations...that I was also blunt as well"


And please don't quote the Sentenial, which would have plastered a headline screaming PLUTO IS DEAD if they thought it would sell more papers. The very fact that they kept bringing up that Javier was in Pluto was bad enough, and very sad. As is their previous articles talking about people in Orlando that used to be characters, and the specific characters they did.

"Absolutely, media just like any other big Corporation with profit in mind will act in very similar shape or form. Reference PLUTO, please state your concerns..can you be more explicit? I am more then aware my cousin played this character very often as well as others, however if you defer can you elaborate?"


To be blunt, Disney isn't going to shut down the park because of 1 accident in 33 YEARS of running parades. Yes, policies and saftey measures will be looked into and changed, some of which has already started, but nothing can be immediate.

"Let also be blunt, Disney will not close for one accident in thirty three years of running parades.....However, everybody knows that not all accidents a openly reported...to be BLUNT I do not even know if this one would have, if it would have been for the Helicopter making a report about the COMCAST hostile take over WDW.

As I said earlier, I am not advocating to fully implement all of these proposals, but perhaps ONE! That would be a day and night upgrade. I understand nothing can be done immediately especially with such a large Corporation."

We take pride in the fact that we perform in Walt Disney's Entertainment. We do our best to try to make the best entertainment possible, and the safest. But nothing is 100% safe, and Javier's death reminds us of this.

"I say nobody in this business does better then WDW..I stand by that statement...I do defer reference your safety environment!"

Many of the things you mention are good ideas, and some are overkill. Some are also just impractical. A monitor system on the floats is good, and a similar system that is used on the Universe of Energy cars would work well. But cameras for the blind spots would be almost impossible. Many of these floats have so many blind spots that the inside would be nothing but a wall of monitors. And then you are pulling the attention of the driver away from what is most important, the road in front of him. That is the reason for the coordinators on the ground. And they already have a direct line to the drivers.

"I can understand your concern for changes...nobody likes changes! Upgrades and improvements are available...you can not deny such fact. Yet a monitor is an overkill, that is why I am not refering to such solution...other display systems does not indicate the necessity of an outdated monitor. By trait, I can provide excellent solutions/recomendations that will will certainally avoid an unavoidable death, if you do not implement changes."

As for the characters having communication with the drivers, it really just isn't practical. Many of the costumes just don't allow a way to wear anything. And, once again, you get into the cell phone problem. It is another thing distracting the driver away from driving. You can have way too many voices in a drivers ear.

" I would not disregard such favorable solution, since radio system would not factor a timely decision of a set of human sensors, in fact it could be totally software oriented and totally automated....communication systems as so small these days that it would fit inside a ear saving valuable space. "


You mention that many of Javier's fellow performers may be in danger. We recognize more than anybody those dangers. Yet we still perform because we trust each other. We trust that the driver is watching for us, and that the coordinators are watching for us. We are also watching for ourselves. But we also understand that overreaction is sometimes just as bad as doing nothing.

"Trust is a wonderful thing, during my military and DoD exposure we depend on it, yet we also have safe fail system, redundancy and backup system to increase safety and prevent lost of valuable life."

And an important thing to remember. We are all taught that we are to be aware of our location at all times. Despite our limited vision, we know we have more vision than the drivers. We can turn and look all around us, they can't. And we are also taught that going in between float sections is against policy. Unfortunally, these are things that have become lax over the years, on both our side and Disney's. But these are things that are being reinforced more than ever, and I'm guessing will not be subject to laxness again.

" I gather you were an eyewitness in my cousin death, since you are eluding that he was simply wondering in between float sections with disregard of company policy, and that it was an action ignored by his superiors because of a and I quote:" Unfortunally, these are things that have become lax over the years..."LAX environment. You see if you are admiting here in this forum that Javier management were not performing their Leadership responsibility when policy was violated or broke...would not that also create an unsafe environment? Would not that create an lawless environment? So, please correct me if my intuition is erroneous, but are you stating that because of a LAX environment...safety was demished???? Thus causing this domino effect of a fatal finale?"

 

[daksimba]

Re: Re: to Orlando Sentenial

Originally posted by qonoximiento
Can you elaborate a little more, please? AS I mentioned before, we are in the dark...we have not receive a copy of WDW investigation report, the Sheriff report and OSHA...All we have are Hearsay...version that change to one extreme to the other...however, what we do agree, (based on sources) are the safety procedures, policies and implementations...that I was also blunt as well

Please learn the quote system, it makes it much easier to read

I'm an entertainment CM, and I can tell you for a fact that saftey changes have been taking place, as I have been experiencing them in a first hand basis. Many of them have been minor, since, as you have said, all the investigations haven't finished.

Plus, all managers have made it very clear to bring any saftey concerns that we may have to them.

Absolutely, media just like any other big Corporation with profit in mind will act in very similar shape or form. Reference PLUTO, please state your concerns..can you be more explicit? I am more then aware my cousin played this character very often as well as others, however if you defer can you elaborate?

You may know, but the world doesn't need to know. We have a thing called character integrity. Javier knew it, and I'm sure he wouldn't want the fact that he was in Pluto to be referenced so much. Call him a character performer, not Pluto. Kids do not need to know that Pluto passed away.

Let also be blunt, Disney will not close for one accident in thirty three years of running parades.....However, everybody knows that not all accidents a openly reported...to be BLUNT I do not even know if this one would have, if it would have been for the Helicopter making a report about the COMCAST hostile take over WDW.

Being the first in 33 years, I'm confident it would have been. Any non-health releated death at Disney is always big news. The death of the CM that died on the Skyway was heavily reported, with no other big news to increase the coverage.

As I said earlier, I am not advocating to fully implement all of these proposals, but perhaps ONE! That would be a day and night upgrade. I understand nothing can be done immediately especially with such a large Corporation.

You have to research the effects, both positive AND negative of any change. The important part is to ask the people that do the parade on a daily basis what needs to be changed to increase their saftey. In the end, they know what is best as they perform it day in and day out.

OSHA may be able to tell me their opinions on our parade, but they don't walk stilts 6 days a week. They don't know what are capablities are, and what are limitations are.

I can understand your concern for changes...nobody likes changes! Upgrades and improvements are available...you can not deny such fact. Yet a monitor is an overkill, that is why I am not refering to such solution...other display systems does not indicate the necessity of an outdated monitor. By trait, I can provide excellent solutions/recomendations that will will certainally avoid an unavoidable death, if you do not implement changes.

Once again, I delegate any opinion on this to the people that drive the parade. But, I know the most primary concern to any float driver is what is directly in front of them. The people that are on foot are responsible for what is around the float.

I would not disregard such favorable solution, since radio system would not factor a timely decision of a set of human sensors, in fact it could be totally software oriented and totally automated....communication systems as so small these days that it would fit inside a ear saving valuable space.

I guess all I can say to this is trust me. I'm in these things day in and day out. I don't want to have to try to put up with a mic inside my head, and some pack I have to wear. To me, that is another thing to pull me away from performance, and my awarness of my surroundings.

And, again, you don't want to distract the drivers anymore than they already are. They are constantly looking for the stray kid that is going to run in front of them. I don't want them hitting that kid because of another thing to have to watch/listen for.

Trust is a wonderful thing, during my military and DoD exposure we depend on it, yet we also have safe fail system, redundancy and backup system to increase safety and prevent lost of valuable life.

And we have the same. We have extensive training. We have dozens of eyes on that parade route that do nothing but watch for us. We take extensive times running the parade in rehearsals to learn the safety involved.

And it is possible to hit a level of too much redundacy. I sight Test Track as an example of that ( :brick: )

I gather you were an eyewitness in my cousin death, since you are eluding that he was simply wondering in between float sections with disregard of company policy, and that it was an action ignored by his superiors because of a and I quote:" Unfortunally, these are things that have become lax over the years..."LAX environment. You see if you are admiting here in this forum that Javier management were not performing their Leadership responsibility when policy was violated or broke...would not that also create an unsafe environment? Would not that create an lawless environment? So, please correct me if my intuition is erroneous, but are you stating that because of a LAX environment...safety was demished???? Thus causing this domino effect of a fatal finale?"

One thing I think you need to understand about how a Disney parade works. Management is really not a part of it. The parade is pretty much run and operated by Entertainment cast members. We dispatch the floats, watch the parade route, and ensure their saftey. Everything that happens on that parade route is our responisblity. Things got lax because we allowed it. So we all feel a level of responibility for this. To be honest, management doesn't do much more than make sure we are there, and take care of issues brought to them. If we don't bring those issues, they don't know.

 

[BwanaBob]

Just a suggestion?....


If you want to accuse the "Employer", I would suggest that we all wait for someone else to do the independent investigation (as you mentioned yourself).
If that is what will make anyone feel better....
IMO, THAT shouldn't make a difference in your feelings.

If it comes back "accident", does someone else need to investigate?

If it comes back "at-fault", will you be satisified?

What are (guessing) 8,000 parents supposed to tell their children, who are watching the parade, why the parade stopped immediately? If you were in charge, I would suggest you would have handled it in the same manner.

What kind of cost-effective "sensors" are you going to put around a float that aren't going to be "set-off" once the characters and non-fur characters are around it during the procession? And yes, 33 years of parades with this being the first "reported" incident is a very good record.

I have already been put in this pre-active/re-active situation. I'm afraid, with as much $$ anyone invests into anything, if a death still occurs, it will never seem enough with the loss of a loved one.

I have never lost a relative...I feel for you and your loss.

Please...you have been patient this long. I would suggest we all just wait a while longer before we pass any judgements and think about it.

 

[RogueHabit]

Originally posted by Piebald
I'm definitely not "in the know" but on the news they interviewed his mother and his sister and they said they thought Disney was negligent and then the reporter said something along the lines of "I spoke with the family today and they are strongly thinking of suing".

Just to pick up on what you noted her Piebald, and Yes; I know you're just reporting what you heard and that this wasn't your opinion.

Anyway, whilst I feel sorry for the family members here and can attempt to appreciate their grief, I would wonder how they could immediately say that Disney have been neglegent?

The didn't see that accident, they only know what they have been told and they really can't be in a position to make that kind of judgement are they?

It occurs to me that this may be media 'extrapolation' and I sincerely hope it is.

 

[Tom]

Originally posted by Catch 22
Just to pick up on what you noted her Piebald, and Yes; I know you're just reporting what you heard and that this wasn't your opinion.

Anyway, whilst I feel sorry for the family members here and can attempt to appreciate their grief, I would wonder how they could immediately say that Disney have been neglegent?

The didn't see that accident, they only know what they have been told and they really can't be in a position to make that kind of judgement are they?

It occurs to me that this may be media 'extrapolation' and I sincerely hope it is.

I agree. It would be pure ignorance to immediately say that you're going to SUE someone. People use lawsuits WAY too often, and 99% of the time only to benefit from the loss of someone else.

A loss of a loved one is sad, and can often cause undue hardship and financial stress, but unless someone else was completely at fault for their death, then nobody is "deserving" of money or special treatment. If the investigation shows that Disney was in compliance with all OSHA Standards and that no other employee was at fault for this accident, then at that point, all parties should move on with thier lives, sadly.

Again, as has been stated numerous times on this thread, safety is everyone's responsibility. If there was a policy in place that said, "Don't go between 2 parts of a multi-section float", then a rule may have been broken, but again we don't know. Nobody knows. We may not know for months or years.

Let us grieve the loss, pray that Disney and Cast Members alike share in future safety initiatives, and move on with our lives.

 

[WDWFREAK53]

Why not just get rid of that float and make a new one? It's the only one with hinges.

(Actually...it was a little eerie seeing it after it happened...knowing what had happened the previous day)

 

[Tom]

Originally posted by WDWFREAK53
Why not just get rid of that float and make a new one? It's the only one with hinges.

(Actually...it was a little eerie seeing it after it happened...knowing what had happened the previous day)

I think there are hinged floats in Spectromagic as well, if my memory serves me correctly....perhaps not. But yeah, that is a solution. I know it saves a few bucks on drivers and motors, but I think they could easily throw another drive compartment in those 2 floats - but I didn't design them.