bryanfze55
Well-Known Member
We definitely don’t have a system of unchecked capitalism. That would infer that we have no regulations on the making of voluntary transactions. That is obviously not true - minimum wage being one simple example.
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Abigail Disney's Twitter thread on Executive pay and furloughing Cast Members during COVID-19
- Thread starter ptaylor
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Bill in Atlanta
Well-Known Member
Capitalism is really just the state of nature. It's simply people using their time, talents, & resources how they so choose.
But, since people are imperfect (sometimes immoral) beings, we as a society demand laws (threats of force) to protect those who would be wronged by such immoral actions.
Once that noble cause has been established, a few people with bad intentions abuse and co-opt it, which gives us the bloated bureaucracy we have today.
manmythlegend
Well-Known Member
I quickly dismiss any comments from people that say we have unchecked capitalism. Not worth the time.
manmythlegend
Well-Known Member
Why would CMs be paid for not working? I don't understand the argument. If people want to get paid for not working, they can turn to the government and apply for unemployment.
Why do Americans brown noise corporations? Seems like even poor Americans all think they are going to be millionaires because of their stupid American Dream crap that the rich brainwash you with so you don't realise how badly your system works and you keep acting like turkeys voting for Thanksgiving.
The number of people who think Disney is being great, Bob's worth his outrageous pay and Abi Disney is the devil for speaking out is laughable. Oh and what's with the whole moralistic judgements on swearing? The US has some messed up sense of morals, don't swear it's so naughty but let's keep guns at home?!? Totally messed up country.
The number of people who think Disney is being great, Bob's worth his outrageous pay and Abi Disney is the devil for speaking out is laughable. Oh and what's with the whole moralistic judgements on swearing? The US has some messed up sense of morals, don't swear it's so naughty but let's keep guns at home?!? Totally messed up country.
Life must be very frustrating for you.
bryanfze55
Well-Known Member
I thought maybe this was a troll post, but I noticed you’re a well known member. I’m only responding to this silliness because I’m highly bored during the quarantine - we don’t “brown nose” corporations. But I’m grounded enough to realize that a corporation pays me to feed and shelter my family. I’m not going to let perfect be the enemy of good.
And yes, a lot of people can be millionaires by the time they retire. Get an education or trade, get a decent middle class job (doesn’t even have to be six figures) and invest a portion of your income with a company match... millions of people do it. Sure, some people have such low incomes they could never reach that threshold. But that’s the case in every country in the world, not just the US. So it’s a pretty nonsensical argument.
The gun thing doesn’t even belong here. Take that to the politics forum. For the record, I don’t own any. But simply having a gun is neither moral nor immoral on its own. Switzerland has a high gun ownership rate, and it’s a pretty great country.
Well said. There was a lot of fueld hate somehow in the post you are referencing. Times are already difficult, and we do not need hate reeering in either. It seems odd to attack or rant on the "American Dream."
The entire world is dealing with a crisis, let us be compassionate or save any hate for business practices for the letters to leadership or speaking with the wallet individually. From what I have seen buy and large seems to have coporations the best decisions they can, even with one disagreeing, it seems bad form to do it in such a hateful way and comes across like misplaced tension.
Tom P.
Well-Known Member
Look, it's true that Iger's entire compensation package is worth a lot more than his base salary. But his base salary is around $3 million. Even for a wealthy person like Iger, $3 million is not exactly chump change. And he is forgoing that for an entire year. That is not insignificant.
ImperfectPixie
Well-Known Member
His pay package in 2018 was $65 million, $3 million is only 4.61% of that. In 2019, it was ~$47 million. That's over $100 million in two years. $3 million is pocket change in comparison to what he's earned while working for Disney.
bryanfze55
Well-Known Member
I could be wrong, but doesn’t the Board of Directors have to approve any voluntary forgoing of compensation by an executive? Fact is, shareholders (and by extension, the Board) want executive pay to be driven primarily by stock so that executives are motivated to perform well and drive share price higher. Is it a perfect system? Of course not. But it’s more complex than simply “Iger is greedy.”
Is he greedy? Maybe. I don’t know him personally. I know he operates within the confines of a complex capitalist system. But it’s important to remember that capitalism is an economic system while greed is a human condition. They aren’t inherently intertwined. Is every major CEO greedy? If so, when do they become greedy? What’s the compensation threshold at which a CEO goes from generic corporate leader to greedy pig?
Is he greedy? Maybe. I don’t know him personally. I know he operates within the confines of a complex capitalist system. But it’s important to remember that capitalism is an economic system while greed is a human condition. They aren’t inherently intertwined. Is every major CEO greedy? If so, when do they become greedy? What’s the compensation threshold at which a CEO goes from generic corporate leader to greedy pig?
Could he give more? Absolutely he could find a way, does he still have a lot of pressure, more than anyone else has been ready to handle in a company that size in a long time if not once in a life time(or realistically less than that)
I do not like Bob Iger as a leadership style, I will never shy away from that, but I do not think he is the epitome of evil no matter how much I dislike what he has done to the parks for me personally. I am a drop in it and many others are fine. It is what it is.
But the hate, there is never going to be a reason for the hate to be coming in with a lot of it is very apparent in the post mentioned above.
The fact is, The American Dream as posted eloquiently by others far better than me, have provided and can provide for people more easily than many other systems. The majority will not become "millionares" or what the imagination tends to put on them. Personally, I do not know if I want to get to the responsability if handling that much, so maybe that self fufills the prophecy because to remain a millionare is likely more stressful at times than becoming one. But even in this crisis, I am fortuante enough, as I bet many others are to be where they are, and many are fortunate enough to have help. There are always things to be learn and improved on. But don't hate anyone in a crisis, or ever. The USA always deserves critique because it can make us better, we are allowed to and we should exercise that right, but the USA, and its Allys are going to be the best at treating and possibly vaccinating this and overcoming the challenges ahead.
I do not like Bob Iger as a leadership style, I will never shy away from that, but I do not think he is the epitome of evil no matter how much I dislike what he has done to the parks for me personally. I am a drop in it and many others are fine. It is what it is.
But the hate, there is never going to be a reason for the hate to be coming in with a lot of it is very apparent in the post mentioned above.
The fact is, The American Dream as posted eloquiently by others far better than me, have provided and can provide for people more easily than many other systems. The majority will not become "millionares" or what the imagination tends to put on them. Personally, I do not know if I want to get to the responsability if handling that much, so maybe that self fufills the prophecy because to remain a millionare is likely more stressful at times than becoming one. But even in this crisis, I am fortuante enough, as I bet many others are to be where they are, and many are fortunate enough to have help. There are always things to be learn and improved on. But don't hate anyone in a crisis, or ever. The USA always deserves critique because it can make us better, we are allowed to and we should exercise that right, but the USA, and its Allys are going to be the best at treating and possibly vaccinating this and overcoming the challenges ahead.
eliza61nyc
Well-Known Member
But he still gave it up. I don't get it, somebody does something decent and it's never enough??
ImperfectPixie
Well-Known Member
That's not what I was saying...I was responding to someone who tried to make it out to be a big dent to his income.
eliza61nyc
Well-Known Member
Apologise, lol I totally admit that I lost the train of thought in this one.
I usually just read on iger threads because I don't follow him.
Again my bad
ImperfectPixie
Well-Known Member
No worries.
tirian
Well-Known Member
NEVER! Hate everybody and label them haters! Force everyone to agree to one person’s opinion! Rewrite history to appease a fraction of modern tastes! Pretend people in 2020 are superior to previous civilizations simply because they can post opinions on the Internet! Ignore anyone who isn’t completely perfect! Death to the establishment! Burn it all down! Burn! Burn!
@ImperfectPixie I’m making fun in general, and this is NOT directed at you!
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Are you saying that rich people can't advocate for programs and policies that benefit everyone, especially the poor or the exploited? Or that shareholders can't also voice their displeasure with the current board and administration of a company that bears the family name? Basically what I'm reading is that everyone wants Abigail to sit down and shut up. Lord, I hope she never does.
Parts of capitalism are going to have to change if the economic philosophy wants to continue to thrive. Younger generations have seen what unregulated capitalism has done to their families, to their country. If you think that won't cause seismic shifts in the future, you're mistaken.
Jimmy Thick
Well-Known Member
How does Disney or any corporation stay solvent if they give away money to people who are not working? If Disney did this there would be no theme parks to go to. There would eventually be no "Disney".
People need to stop and look at things with a clear head and just a touch of logic.
People need to stop and look at things with a clear head and just a touch of logic.
Tom P.
Well-Known Member
People believe that these big mega-corporations have a virtually unlimited pool of money that they can draw from and that they are just too greedy to share it. I sincerely believe that. People simply do not accept arguments that Disney "cannot afford" something as possibly being true.