A Spirited Valentine ...

[GoofGoof]

In other news those who say ESPN is just ducky


^^^ THIS ^^^

Yes Disney indeed does beautiful rockwork but rockwork alone does not create an immersive environment.

The other elements are required and they have not been seen since Carsland

Just look at the old SoA. All the small details from the shopfront windows to the bicycles and basketball hoops and tire swings.

You felt like you were on a city street in the 40's - early 60's period

That kind of placemaking has not been seen at Disney since carsland, The Harambe expansion different story as that was expanding a place while keeping existing theming. Very well done but it was not a NEW place.

As to the expensive mall known as Disney Springs only Disney would build a huge mall when malls are dying all over the us.

FLE has a lot of details (plus all the rockwork). If you compare FLE to the original fantasyland it's not even close which is better done. The ride queues for both rides are incredibly detailed and well done. BoG is arguably the most detailed and well done restaurant in any theme park. The forced perspective on the castle is pretty lame but outside of that the land is beautifully done with lots of attention to detail. Even Storybook Circus has tons of details from the peanut shells built into the concrete around Dumbo to the train theme around the splash zone. There is a severe lack in actual attractions (especially e-ticket) but the overall land itself is beautiful.

Harambe expansion was beuatifully done and as detailed as any area in AK. We agree with that but I guess it doesn't count because it doesn't fit the narrative.

Pandora is incredibly detailed. It's not just the floating mountains but the whole land. It's again, a very well done environment. The main complaints I've seen are around the popularity of the IP itself and the boat ride being too short and lacking a story. I haven't seen too many people say they felt the land or environment was lacking in details.

Since we are ignoring rockwork and we aren't talking about the quality of the rides themselves how is Carsland so much better done than Pandora or FLE? It has a lot of rockwork and a great e-ticket.

Getting back to the original point: if FLE looked as good as it does plus had 2 legit e-tickets I think most of the rest of us would be gushing over it. If Pandora had 2 legit e-tickets we'd be gushing even more over it. SWLand is going to have 2 e-tickets. Assuming they continue with the quality and details of the recent projects (FLE, Pandora, Carsland) plus add in truly epic rides all based on an IP that is arguably the most popular out there the land should be amazing. The biggest complaint will likely be the huge crowds and long waits for rides.

 

[GoofGoof]

On this specific point, I do see where old Exploder is coming from. FLE and Pandora both have a ton of rock work, as have several recent Disney theme park projects. They are clearly experts at rock work and natural settings. And while I find them both to be beautiful, it would be nice to see an expansion that's a different style. Like the highly-detailed Potter lands at UNI. (No I don't want to starts a UNI v. WDW debate, just an example of a different style)

Obviously it seems most new attractions will be IP based, so there hands are a little tied when it comes to the setting of an attraction or land.

I agree that the most recent examples have been largely rock based natural environments but I don't see it as a big negative. Although SW land will have rockwork it won't be the same natural environment as FLE or Pandora. The rockwork also hides show buildings and creates a natural looking divide between lands. I think SW Land should have a better mix of non-rock sets/buildings with the replica of the millennium falcon and the inside of shops/restaurant proposed. There's still going to be rock, but without it we would be on a planet in the Star Wars Universe looking at the slinky dog coaster or ToT in the background. The rock keeps the environments separate.

Although it's a small addition, Harambe also shows that WDI can still build additions with buildings and storefronts with incredible attention to detail.

 

[The_Jobu]

What elements did the Streets of America have that the New Fantasyland areas or Pandora lack?

Not to argue that other areas aren't detailed, but the level of detail and immersion on SoA is unmatched by me except maybe Potterland. ToT and the walk up to it is pretty much the perfect theme park experience to me.

 

[ford91exploder]

Not to argue that other areas aren't detailed, but the level of detail and immersion on SoA is unmatched by me except maybe Potterland. ToT and the walk up to it is pretty much the perfect theme park experience to me.

Exactly so, SoA was designed to put you in a 50's era urban area and it succeeded masterfully at that if you had an artistic bent you could spend hours marveling at the small touches.,


Harambe brings you to a post british independence port city in an unnamed african country during the hopeful period before the Soviets began supporting warlords and funding proxy wars.

So you had British Telephone booths and cast iron mailboxes with VR emblazoned upon them along with signs from the brand new government

Diagon alley - what more needs to be said. These are all immersive experiences designed for exploration and imagination.

Now we have stuff for the most part which looks plasticky and cheap

 

[ford91exploder]

Good stuff.

The problem can really only be solved through regulation. Even if a CEO like Iger tried to buck this trend (which he wouldn't since he's directly profiting from it) he'd likely be replaced pretty quickly anyway. Wall Street is just as addicted to the stock buy backs as executives. IMHO I don't think we have the leaders in Congress (from either party) with enough stones to actually enact legislation to change things and prevent this behavior. I'm usually not a fan of unnecessary, restrictive or overly complicated regulations enacted by the government (like Dodd Frank) but in this case it's the only way I see this practice slowing down.

This problem was created by an administrative rule and could be fixed by rescinding that rule.

 

[ford91exploder]

But there was nothing to do in Streets of America but take pictures of each other. ESPN held a paintball game there once, but other than that what was a guest supposed to do there?

What elements did the Streets of America have that the New Fantasyland areas or Pandora lack?

As to Disney Springs, I would hazard to say that no, Disney is not the single only company developing an upscale dining/shopping district in the United States right now. Are you suggesting that the wider trends of retail contraction in the country are going to cause it to fail? If so, when? Because last time I checked the place was mobbed most nights of the week. Is Universal similarly foolish for continuing to develop Citywalk?

As to DS macro trends may cause it to fail, Citywalk is a bit different as its integral to the parks as most of Uni's dining is in Citywalk unlike Disney where dining is an 'in-park' experience

 

[tirian]

Weekend Review #4

Stock Buybacks
ESPN may be what occupies most of Wall Street's when they think about DIS, but the agressive stock buybacks under Bob Iger could, and very likely will, sink the company. @ParentsOf4 has highlighted this issue many times before here, but I recently read an interview in Forbes with economist William Laslow on the long term damage stock buybacks can have on companies like Disney and on the economy as a whole. As fans and, for some here, shareholders, the share buyback issue needs to be adressed because divisions like P&R need the money to invest in their futures.
https://hbr.org/2014/09/profits-without-prosperity
https://www.forbes.com/sites/aalsin...-mania-thats-threatening-the-american-economy

Essential Reading: The Western River Expedition-Passport to Dreams Old & New

Full stop, no one writes more deep, insightful historical and critical essays on Disney theme parks than Foxxy. Her writings are an tool with which we can better understand what made/makes the parks great. Unfortunately, she's written so many great essays that it is difficult to pick out just one. @tirian brought up the Western River Expedition, Marc Davis' legendary unbuilt Mega E boat ride proposed for the Magic Kingdom in the 1970's, as a possible high capacity expansion of that park for the 50th anniversary in 2021. A couple of years ago, Foxxy wrote a three part piece reconstructing the attraction and explained how it would fit into the larger Thunder Mesa subland that would have been built where Splash and Big Thunder now sit. It's a long piece, but it's well worth your time.
http://passport2dreams.blogspot.com/2015/01/all-about-western-river-expedition-part.html
http://passport2dreams.blogspot.com/2015/01/all-about-western-river-expedition-part_29.html

"We Know The Way"- Moana's Legacy

Through a grant from the Disney Conservation Fund and Conservation International, the Somoan Voyaging Society is traveling across the South Pacific islands with a workshop for elementary school aged children about their wayfinding heritage and understanding and protecting the ecology of the South Pacific Ocean. Naturally, the kids also got to watch "Moana". Its theatrical release has come and gone, but that was just the beginning of the relationship viewers around the world will have with this film, especially for the young people who will grow up proud of their where they came from and who they are.
http://blog.conservation.org/2017/0...moana-resonates-with-message-of-conservation/

The WRE blog entries are some of the best theme park articles online.

 

[GoofGoof]

Agreed with everything you wrote. But Arguably? It's the most popular to ever land in a theme park- hands down.
Everyone doesn't have to like it.
Example- I'm not a huge Beetles fan- they certainly aren't my favorite, but I still recognize them as the greatest band of all time.

I agree. On a message board like this I always try to avoid making absolute statements since there are some people who will argue just to argue. I didn't want to start a series of posts quoting stats on the popularity of other IPs. Whether Star Wars is the most popular or 2nd or 3rd isn't really the point. It's super popular either way and will draw huge crowds.

 

[GoofGoof]

This problem was created by an administrative rule and could be fixed by rescinding that rule.

I don't think it's quite that easy anymore. The SEC could try to close the loophole and change the safe harbor requirements or simply change requirements to make open market buybacks illegal, but that could be too restrictive. Stock buybacks are not always a bad thing or a bad economic decision for a company. It's the volume and frequency or buybacks that's the problem. I still think they need to tackle the stock compensation issue in conjunction with limiting buybacks. Right now both management and Wall Street love stock buy backs because the short term gains benefit stock compensation and short term stock prices. If management didn't benefit so greatly they would have a lot more incentive to find additional, more creative ways to use excess cash.

 

[ford91exploder]

I don't think it's quite that easy anymore. The SEC could try to close the loophole and change the safe harbor requirements or simply change requirements to make open market buybacks illegal, but that could be too restrictive. Stock buybacks are not always a bad thing or a bad economic decision for a company. It's the volume and frequency or buybacks that's the problem. I still think they need to tackle the stock compensation issue in conjunction with limiting buybacks. Right now both management and Wall Street love stock buy backs because the short term gains benefit stock compensation and short term stock prices. If management didn't benefit so greatly they would have a lot more incentive to find additional, more creative ways to use excess cash.

Yes closing the loophole could be difficult especially for those SEC regulators hoping to take advantage of the 'revolving door' post retirement.

Yes there are legitimate uses for stock buybacks. I receve options as part of my compensation and one use for buybacks is to prevent share dilution by options exercise.

But the safe harbor provision could be scaled back to encompass this and other legitimate stock repurchases. Right now stock repurchases at many companies is nothing short of stock manipulation and self dealing to increase executive compensation.

 

[The_Jobu]

I agree. On a message board like this I always try to avoid making absolute statements since there are some people who will argue just to argue. I didn't want to start a series of posts quoting stats on the popularity of other IPs. Whether Star Wars is the most popular or 2nd or 3rd isn't really the point. It's super popular either way and will draw huge crowds.

I think @Mike S has a chart of the most popular franchises. I think Batman was #1.

 

[NearTheEars]

I agree that the most recent examples have been largely rock based natural environments but I don't see it as a big negative. Although SW land will have rockwork it won't be the same natural environment as FLE or Pandora. The rockwork also hides show buildings and creates a natural looking divide between lands. I think SW Land should have a better mix of non-rock sets/buildings with the replica of the millennium falcon and the inside of shops/restaurant proposed. There's still going to be rock, but without it we would be on a planet in the Star Wars Universe looking at the slinky dog coaster or ToT in the background. The rock keeps the environments separate.

Although it's a small addition, Harambe also shows that WDI can still build additions with buildings and storefronts with incredible attention to detail.

Agreed! Like I said, their hands are tied if the IP requires rock work.

Harambe is a great example of non-rock design.

 

[HauntedPirate]

At least we still have the queue music that still plays.

Except now they have that annoying as hell safety spiel going over the top of the Star Tunnel music.

 

[ford91exploder]

This comment doesn't even make sense. What recent projects have been light on details? If anything the knock on most recent Disney projects is a lack of substantial (e-ticket) rides. There is no question that WDI can still build a land filled with intricate details. With FLE and Pandora at WDW we have some of the most detailed and elaborate queues with extreme attention to detail. The big complaint has been the rides failing to live up to the quality of the rest of the land (with the exception of FoP).

NFL for one,

Cant rate pandora as have not been there but if the picture thats been up is any example of the level of detail im not impressed as SyFy channel has better SFX in their cheap thrillers

 

[GoofGoof]

NFL for one,

Cant rate pandora as have not been there but if the picture thats been up is any example of the level of detail im not impressed as SyFy channel has better SFX in their cheap thrillers

We can agree to disagree then. If the attention to detail on Star Wars Land "fails" like Pandora and FLE I will be quite happy

 

[Mike S]

I think @Mike S has a chart of the most popular franchises. I think Batman was #1.

It was the most important brands in the US for 14 and under.

 

[Princess Leia]

It was the most important brands in the US for 14 and under.

My almost 3-year-old cousin declared that Batman was his favorite action character. Kind of surprised since he's a huge Star Wars fan, but I can't say I blame him.

 

[MisterPenguin]

I have a picture of 4 year old me with a Batman and Robin poster on my wall.

That was back in the time when the Adam West Batman TV series was originally airing.

I'm old.

 

[GoofGoof]

It was the most important brands in the US for 14 and under.

My almost 3-year-old cousin declared that Batman was his favorite action character. Kind of surprised since he's a huge Star Wars fan, but I can't say I blame him.

Lego Batman is a huge draw. My kids loved the movie and the toys. Star Wars has some pretty awesome lego sets too and we have a bunch of them, but since the Batman movie came out the kids are more into Batman.

 

[Bairstow]

Lego Batman is a huge draw. My kids loved the movie and the toys. Star Wars has some pretty awesome lego sets too and we have a bunch of them, but since the Batman movie came out the kids are more into Batman.

You kind of feel sorry for the Merlin Legoland people, what with Lego corporate putting all their recent emphasis on licensed properties that they can never really use in their parks as opposed to the in-house stuff like "Chima" and "Ninjago"... which no one cares about.

Ironically, the one time I visited Legoland in Florida it was Star Wars Day, so most of the park was playing the movie soundtracks and the local 501 boys were marching around.