A Spirited Summer Special (AKA Phil Holmes Takes Anaheim!)

[WDW1974]

From the data that we've getting in our industry, consumer spending is ticking up and we're seeing wholesale improvements in areas of the country that have lagged behind in the recovery. So, here's the bigger question: Are Disney and Universal properties starting to hit a brick wall because of their pricing? I'd be interested to see how properties like Cedar Fair are doing right now with more affordable options. We've talked for years on this board about a ceiling and would it ever be hit? Astronomical price increases during the past several years could be a major answer to the slowdown let alone a strengthening dollar affecting different groups of international visitors on each coast.

I think the answer, if I wasn't clear, is an unequivocal YES!!!

Neither Disney or UNI are worth close to what they are charging simply for admission. Let's not talk about food, lodging, merchandise etc.

 

[WDW1974]

I never understood why having park, hotel and attraction specific napkins was so important. It seems like a silly waste of time, energy and money to have any printed napkins. Spend the time and money on employee salaries, benefits and recruiting.

that money would never end up going to the employees...and the specific napkins are all part of the details... Some people notice others don't... Why bother with theming at all? Why have attraction-specific uniforms? Restaurant-specific menus or china?.....Knock out the details and you have a Six Flags park...though I think they have printed napkins too...

Yup. If a small mom and pop operation in a strip centre can have them Disney certainly can. They just save by not doing so. And while I hate having 'the napkin debate' ... it IS the little things that matter.

Take a visit to TDR and see how every freaking food container, cup, napkin, bag etc is themed and updated seasonally and you'll realize how Walmarted WDW (and DL too largely) is. And the money NEVER goes to the great unwashed mass of laborers ... it just doesn't.

 

[WDW1974]

From last night's entertaining Anaheim city council meeting:

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/anaheim-722304-city-disney.html

 

[alphac2005]

Yup. If a small mom and pop operation in a strip centre can have them Disney certainly can. They just save by not doing so. And while I hate having 'the napkin debate' ... it IS the little things that matter.

Take a visit to TDR and see how every freaking food container, cup, napkin, bag etc is themed and updated seasonally and you'll realize how Walmarted WDW (and DL too largely) is. And the money NEVER goes to the great unwashed mass of laborers ... it just doesn't.

Spot on.

@Rodan75 , in consumer branding psychology, little things like the napkins might not seem important to some, but besides the mere classiness and not being Walmarted, it's another piece of the branding puzzle. Trust me, this is where my livelihood comes from in consumer products and the difference between the blank napkin and a bleed print napkin is nominal in the volume that Disney needs produced. The issue is that the spreadsheet bean counter sees that that nominal cost adds up to a tidy sum with such a high volume and they discount all of the human psychology out of the equation.

If I'm in a restaurant and paying Michelin star prices for Wendy's quality, I, in the least, should have nice silverware and a pattern and/or logo on the plate.

The amazing dumbing down of expectations and how consumers and people as a whole are treated and treat one another in the U.S. is a mess. I certainly don't want some rewind to a socially messed up 50's nor do I want to wear a suit and tie to Disneyland, but it sure is nice when people seemed to have a little more self-dignity.

 

[alphac2005]

+

From last night's entertaining Anaheim city council meeting:

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/anaheim-722304-city-disney.html

Incredible. This is why local governments don't have the funds to properly spend on their citizens. Give Disney a massive tax rebate for a hotel that they were going to build anyway. It never ends.

 

[asianway]

+


Incredible. This is why local governments don't have the funds to properly spend on their citizens. Give Disney a massive tax rebate for a hotel that they were going to build anyway. It never ends.

I want to know what happens if they close Paradise Pier and they lose that tax stream

 

[RobidaFlats]

The bottom line with them is they all know what is on point and what is important to Celebration Place and they know they can't deviate from it or the freebie trough dries up and, more importantly, Disney just ignores them and refuses to acknowledge they exist.

That's why every Lifestyler loves every new store at DS, or they simple ignore the ones they don't. It's why when Disney makes the smallest of additions (say a new castle show at MK) that they all are out there from Day 1 pimping it. It's why they have all become defacto sales people for DisneyStore online. etc etc.

And forget about the important stuff like the Star Wars Experience. Has ONE blogger (my old buddy now living in a retirement home in Artesia, Andy Castro, doesn't count here) actually criticised the horrific placement of it in DLR and the wholesale, large scale destruction and negative change it is bringing?

Of course not, and it isn't because SW is simply that beloved no matter what some fanbois would have you believe. It's because saying SW has no business where it is (a common belief among present and ex Imagineers, some Disney Legends as well, not working on the project) would be a kiss of death for them.

Just like don't expect an outpouring of anything but praise from the blogging community when GotG Tower is announced and when the exact form of their presence at EPCOT comes out. If you're a blogger, then you love Marvel because Bob, Zenia and everyone at CP demands that you do.

And, sadly, there is no Al Lutz in the community any longer who isn't looking for a thing (beyond attention) and will call them out on it.

Hell, I am shocked that I now consistently break Anaheim-centric news here that Micechat would have had in the past and they simply don't anymore because they're headed into the abyss.

I know that there is no data out there to confirm anything, but I've always wondered how effective the bloggers are in driving people to WDW. It seems that most of the people who follow them are already die-hard WDW fans themselves. It would be interesting to know if many first-time visitors are swayed due to bloggers.

 

[SorcererMC]

That won't happen until Bob Iger is out of the company. It can't. He's a cancer at the top.

Yet he seems to be the Golden Child who can do no wrong for most folks....but not to Michael Eisner, who has walked in those shoes. Intriguing. I think it goes beyond the one-upmanship here:

Michael Eisner was there and told a few folks that he felt slighted for not getting a shout-out (and likely an official invite) from Disney on the Shanghai opening. He was not shy about telling others that Bob still made a mistake by not getting a media penetration deal in exchange for the park (at least off the record, naturally).

 

[asianway]

I know that there is no data out there to confirm anything, but I've always wondered how effective the bloggers are in driving people to WDW. It seems that most of the people who follow them are already die-hard WDW fans themselves. It would be interesting to know if many first-time visitors are swayed due to bloggers.

They dont. The Parks Blog actually does a fine job on their own and 90% of whats on the other blogs is just the same crap regurgitated.

Its a matter of drowning out dissent...

 

[SorcererMC]

I know that there is no data out there to confirm anything, but I've always wondered how effective the bloggers are in driving people to WDW. It seems that most of the people who follow them are already die-hard WDW fans themselves. It would be interesting to know if many first-time visitors are swayed due to bloggers.

I have no affection for pixie-dusted bloggers...but, there is definitely a role that the local population can play in supporting the tourist industry...b/c they know that the local economy depends on it. Why WDW or UO have not established some formal program to recognize these kinds of 'cultural ambassadors' is beyond me. Oh wait, conflict of interest.

 

[COProgressFan]

What does Phil Holmes know that he has not decided to spend more time with his family?

No comment

Interesting... I know you're probably not at liberty to give details, but it certainly makes you wonder.

 

[choco choco]

From last night's Anaheim City Council meeting...

Ok, you're definitely right about that map. The other points you made...let's just say I think Disney is making a lot of stuff up right now (demolishing the Disneyland Hotel ) including the feasibility of the hotel (they can't, as they claim, build it without a tax break?).

You're right, we should probably put this in the Disneyland forum.

 

[George]

I know that there is no data out there to confirm anything, but I've always wondered how effective the bloggers are in driving people to WDW. It seems that most of the people who follow them are already die-hard WDW fans themselves. It would be interesting to know if many first-time visitors are swayed due to bloggers.

Every visit I've ever made going back to when I couldn't read and blogs weren't even imagined in 1972, were due to the existence of blogs exclaiming the virtues, joys, and unparalleled headiness of a WDW vacation. For those of you hung up on logical tautologies, I have built a time machine.

 

[TiggerDad]

Same can be said about the bun. It all looks the same in the end.

Yes, but it tastes better with the logo.

 

[WildcatDen]

I couldn't help but notice all the Tommy Bahama shirts and shorts on sale at Cast Connection for half price when I was there in May. And it wasn't exactly jumping off the racks. I love their stuff because I want to appear 15 years older than I am, divorced twice with three daughters (one with a drug problem, the other two who barely speak to me), a three-year-old 'pre-owned' BMW that I like to pass off as new, and a six-figure (low) salary as a Marketing VP for some insurance company that is likely to downsize my position out of existence in the next 12-36 months.

Funny. Grin and nod funny. . .

 

[Jon81uk]

I've said all along, they clearly didn't surey enough international visitors as to what stores they visit the malls for! Go to Florida mall, milennia, any outlet mall.... people are walking around with the same bags - Victoria secret, hollister, abercrombie, American Eagle, bath and bodyworks. I know some may be a little off brand for disney, but it seems they really have just targeted high class mommies.

If you want people to stay on property and folow on the work of magical express, dining plan and fastpass+, cater to the largest group that will be off shopping at a mall for a day.

I am sure it is.

I have said many times, including in private to you, but the UK traveling elite doesn't visit WDW. In many ways, you are dealing with the UK equivalent of the USA working class taking holidays in their Central FL paradise. That was very easy to see when the pound was over $2 or even over $1.50. While Orlando may still be a deal on paper it is nowhere what it was a decade ago and with the Brexit and uncertainty, one can easily surmise things get worse as far as UK numbers to FL dropping.

But the biggest issue BY FAR is twofold: 1.) The greater US economy and destruction of the middle class, and 2.) Disney (AND UNI) raising prices to points where people who still have the means and desire to travel simply say it isn't worth it anymore.

I firmly believe both of those reasons are why the FL (and to a lesser extent, but still noticeable, CA) parks have been off pretty much since 2015 turned the page.

And since about 80% of WDW visitors are Americans, those factors are much, much, MUCH more a concern than whatever happens in the land of cheese and onion crisps and warm beer.

These two quotes go together as the reason Brits go to Florida Mall is for American Eagle and Abercrombie & Fitch. They aren't upmarket brands, but are seen as a little luxury to some people who have saved up to go to WDW and UOR, particularly when the dollar was $1.70 to the £.

Superdry is basically a British version of Abercrombie and is common over here. Uniqlo and Zara are also common in London. So Disney haven't picked stores at Disney Springs for Brits. I still need to go to Florida Mall for Abercrombie. I will also go to Premium Outlets for $20 Converse. But even at Outlet pricing some things aren't as much of a bargain at $1.30 to the £.

It will be five years until our next trip but if it gets s any more expensive I don't think I can spend as much in Florida

 

[wdwmagic]

I've said all along, they clearly didn't surey enough international visitors as to what stores they visit the malls for! Go to Florida mall, milennia, any outlet mall.... people are walking around with the same bags - Victoria secret, hollister, abercrombie, American Eagle, bath and bodyworks. I know some may be a little off brand for disney, but it seems they really have just targeted high class mommies.

If you want people to stay on property and folow on the work of magical express, dining plan and fastpass+, cater to the largest group that will be off shopping at a mall for a day.

Most of the stores that have opened so far at Disney Springs are doing incredibly well. A good number of them are the highest performing locations in their brand.

I would also counter the argument of targeting high class. Most clothing stores at Disney Springs have items between $35 and $100. UniQlo is going to be right down in the $20 category. We are not talking $1000 shoes, $800 dresses or $35,000 watches - like you can find at Mall at Millenia.

 

[JediMasterMatt]

Of course not, and it isn't because SW is simply that beloved no matter what some fanbois would have you believe. It's because saying SW has no business where it is (a common belief among present and ex Imagineers, some Disney Legends as well, not working on the project) would be a kiss of death for them.

Since the place SWL should've gone is down Harbor Blvd and DIS isn't quite ready to move on that, SW was going to go somewhere on property at DLR. Of the options that were available, I think it's being put in the least impactful place and those involved are taking as much precaution as possible to make it work in the least obtrusive way they can with the space available at DLR. Here's my understanding of where the jigsaw pieces could've gone:

- Tomorrowland was the first target. It was going to be a mess. It was going to be a hodgepodge of SW's greatest hits around the galaxy. As much as DL's TL needs a makeover, to lose it outright would've been unforgiveable. Nobody involved wanted this option. This was internally an important milestone as the "greatest hits" concept exited the equation and the Potter/Cars Land approach was cemented.
- Toontown was the next option and this was very, very close to happening. It would've been a bit smaller in scope and had more indoor spaces (due to fireworks fallout). Had this been enacted, it would've ended any hope of Fantasyland expansion - which was something always in the cards and the SW space station would've prevented this from happening. Orlando's windfall of cash headed their direction ultimately steered SWL away from evicting Toontown as the scope changed again and a 2:1 design became possible.
- DCA was never really in serious contention for SW as most everyone knew if it found a foothold there, the other IP that needed a home in the game of musical chairs - Marvel, would've had to find a spot in DL instead (due to the place down Harbor way not being anywhere on the radar at this point).
- The northwest corner became the final home. Everyone knew it was going to be invasive and everyone understood that SW doesn't really fit in Walt's park (although of all "new" creative properties of the last century, SW has reached the cultural epoch that makes it an entire generations frontier/p ioneer model that Frontierland's spirit as based on). Those working on the project have done their best to put SW outside the berm and keep it from taking away from the spirit of Frontierland. Once the tree's mature, I think they will have done their job as best they could with the hand they were delt from the very stacked deck. Going under the new berm will be like walking leaving one Frontier for another.

Still... it should've been the anchor of the 3rd gate. SW still will be most likely when the time comes. The SW spaceship will just land in a different port in the galaxy.

I'll be back Cali way in a few weeks, so hopefully I can get some updates.

BTW Spirit - for someone on summer hiatus, you've been awfully chatty this week.

 

[WildcatDen]

Gelato in September in Tuscany is my best "ice cream" experience. Enjoy!

Before making the trip to Italy, swing by Cincinnati and get some Graeter's. . .

 

[bugsbunny]

From last night's entertaining Anaheim city council meeting:

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/anaheim-722304-city-disney.html

700 room luxury hotel? Can they actually fill that? Its NOT Disney World. Unless you have money to burn and/or don't know any better, you can actually have hotel room closer to the parks staying OFF property and for 1/2 the price. I know they want to push that they are a resort there, but it isn't. Two or three days and your done at both parks that are within walking distance of your hotel. I actually like DL for the very reason I don't have to wait for buses to go to/from my hotel and I can walk like1 or 2 blocks to get to my room. Plus plenty of places nearby to eat at NORMAL prices rather than $19 burgers.

Regardless, giving 70% back to TWO companies for 20 years is ridiculous. Its not like Disney is going to pull up stakes and leave anytime soon. Why act like they have all the leverage?