A Spirited Perfect Ten

CaptainAmerica

Premium Member
Guys, even COMCAST isn't saying that Transformers had anything to do with attendance growth in FY14. Like I suspected, it's the sustained success of Potter.

Theme Parks segment revenue increased in 2014 and 2013 primarily due to higher guest attendance and increases in per capita spending at our Orlando and Hollywood theme parks. The increase in 2014 was primarily due to new attractions, such as The Wizarding World of Harry Potter™ – Diagon Alley™ in Orlando and Despicable Me: Minion Mayhem in Hollywood. The increase in 2013 was primarily due to the continued success of The Wizarding World of Harry Potter™ attraction in Orlando and the Transformers attractions in Orlando and Hollywood.

In other words (chronologically):
2013 - Bump from Potter and Transformers
2014 - CONTINUED BUMP FROM POTTER, no more bump from Transformers
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
Yes, new IPs at Universal could do well. Harry Potter is not the only popular IP.

However, there is a difference between doing well and the kind of gains Universal is reporting right now. The last 2 quarters have seen revenue gains of 29.9% and 33.7% by simply adding a land to a single theme park. These are the kinds of numbers typically associated with adding an entire amusement park. Remember, Universal operates more than just one theme park in Orlando. These revenue gains are for the entire business unit. By any objective measurement, Hogsmeade and Diagon Alley have proven to be home runs.

The pull-through revenue generated by Diagon Alley is just tremendous; one new land in Orlando is generating a ton of money across the entire resort. That why there was a 54.6% gain in operating cash flow for the quarter. Diagon Alley is generating additional income throughout the entire Universal Orlando Resort. Looking at Disney's numbers, I had to go all the way back to 1986 (when Eisner instituted a huge ticket price increase) to see that kind of gain (57.9%) in operating income.

Hopefully by now folks on these threads know that I prefer to talk in percentages. I could tell you I made $10K but that number cannot be evaluated unless I also tell you how much I invested. Percentages tell the story.

Universal might experience strong monetary gains with additions such as Fast & Furious or a Marvel expansion but with both IOA and USF now firing on all cylinders, I simply don't see the current growth continuing for more than another quarter.

IMO, a "knock your socks off" Star Wars themed land in Orlando could be a huge winner for Disney, perhaps not a 30% gain but a 20% revenue gain? I think so. Let's hope Disney has learned from Hogsmead, Diagon Alley, and it's own Cars Land that "doing it right" when adding a new land is how to improve business across an entire resort.
I wonder how much of the current gain comes from "forcing" people to buy the 2 park ticket with HE and Potter spread to both parks. It was a brilliant move to link the parks like that. The 2 day, "park hopper" ticket went up over 16% in price. I have to think that has become a popular option now vs buying a single day ticket for each park.
 

GLaDOS

Well-Known Member
Guys, even COMCAST isn't saying that Transformers had anything to do with attendance growth in FY14. Like I suspected, it's the sustained success of Potter.

Theme Parks segment revenue increased in 2014 and 2013 primarily due to higher guest attendance and increases in per capita spending at our Orlando and Hollywood theme parks. The increase in 2014 was primarily due to new attractions, such as The Wizarding World of Harry Potter™ – Diagon Alley™ in Orlando and Despicable Me: Minion Mayhem in Hollywood. The increase in 2013 was primarily due to the continued success of The Wizarding World of Harry Potter™ attraction in Orlando and the Transformers attractions in Orlando and Hollywood.

In other words (chronologically):
2013 - Bump from Potter and Transformers
2014 - CONTINUED BUMP FROM POTTER, no more bump from Transformers

I was talking about 2013 in every post I made on Transformers. The year Transformers opened. No crap 2014 came from Potter. But they do say 2013 came from Transformers, so I'll take that as an admission that I was correct in saying Transformers was a draw. Thank you.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
With all the talk of Potter financials, we seem to be forgetting that Gringotts was the most overhyped, and disappointing attraction to open in O-Town this decade(with that Penguin Travesty at Sea World a close second).
Antarctrica could possibly be the single biggest fail in theme park history.

Even if you didn't like Gringotts it can't even come close to that mess.
 

Quinnmac000

Well-Known Member
With all the talk of Potter financials, we seem to be forgetting that Gringotts was the most overhyped, and disappointing attraction to open in O-Town this decade(with that Penguin Travesty at Sea World a close second).

NFL was the most overhyped and disappointing attraction to open in O-town this decade....lets be honest (JoTLM problems, 2 years for 7DMT which ended up breaking down and not entertaining as thought before hand, limited capacity Be our guest restuarant)
 

CaptainAmerica

Premium Member
NFL was the most overhyped and disappointing attraction to open in O-town this decade....lets be honest.
Disappointing how? NFL was supposed to be a restaurant, meet and greets, double Dumbos, and a family coaster. It's exactly those things and executes each one very well.

Maybe it's not your cup of tea but it's exactly what it was promised to be. It was never promised to be "twelve mind blowing new thrill rides that will melt your face off."
 

Disneyhead'71

Well-Known Member
Disappointing how? NFL was supposed to be a restaurant, meet and greets, double Dumbos, and a family coaster. It's exactly those things and executes each one very well.

Maybe it's not your cup of tea but it's exactly what it was promised to be. It was never promised to be "twelve mind blowing new thrill rides that will melt your face off."
Or even good Disney rides.
 

GLaDOS

Well-Known Member
Disappointing how? NFL was supposed to be a restaurant, meet and greets, double Dumbos, and a family coaster. It's exactly those things and executes each one very well.

Maybe it's not your cup of tea but it's exactly what it was promised to be. It was never promised to be "twelve mind blowing new thrill rides that will melt your face off."

Neither was disappointing, unless they're looked at from a fanboy perspective. Both are good creative projects. New Fantasyland didn't alleviate capacity issues as it was designed to do, but from a creative standpoint it's a good project.
 
Total gain in attendance at Universal Orlando from 2008-2013: 3.68 million

According to the prevailing notions on this board and similar "doom and gloom" assessments of WDW and the nearly deification of Universal- Uni Orlando is outsmarting, out building and out classing WDW in every single way as of late and there will soon be a point when Universal just plain surpasses WDW altogether. Universal Creative is the best organization in the theme park industry and every attraction is a world beating show stopper, the likes of which DIsney hasn't matched in Orlando for well over a decade.

Total gain in attendance at Walt Disney World from 2008-2013: 2.98 million

Again, according to the prevailing notions here, WDW is mired in one of the world periods that's ever stricken a set of Disney parks. Quality is poor, service is terrible, value is nonexistent and all creativity has been lost to endless penny pinching and money grubbing.

And so the difference between the rising star of Universal and their near perfect execution of their Orlando parks vs. Disney's stupid, bumbling, money grubbing and creativity lacking terrible execution of their Orlando parks amounts to a difference of:

700,000 guests over 6 years.
115,000 guests per year, or the total attendance gained in two typical operating days for the Magic Kingdom

So again, Universal has wholly outclassed WDW in every single way for 6 years, leading to huge attendance gains and a massive windfall in guest spending. Yet, both of Universal's parks COMBINED can't begin to ever hope to pass the Magic Kingdom alone. In fact, it would take years of double digit growth at Universal to equal WDW's least attended park - Hollywood Studios. Of course, Disney is prepping Star Wars at the Studios which will balloon attendance, same for Avatar at Animal Kingdom (and likely Frozen at EPCOT).

To give Universal a swinging chance, I'll set their two parks vs WDW's two least attended (DHS and AK)

Assuming Universal sees a similar ~5% annual growth over the next 6 years (same as their past 6 years)

Also assuming two lesser WDW parks see the same trend over the next 6 years as their past (which isnt realistic at all given Star Wars/Avatar- but I'll throw Uni a bone and assume those aren't open/contributing to attendance by 2019 (so only ~1% annual growth like the past 6 years)

2013 Total Universal Orlando Attendance: 15.2 million
Projected 2019 Attendance @ ~5% annual growth: 20.4 million

2013 DHS/AK Attendance: 20.3 million
Projected 2019 Attendance @ ~1% annual growth: 21.6 million

So if Universal continues to dump a around $1 billion into their parks over the next 6 years and opens a new attraction every 12 months and Disney adds literally nothing and maintains a modest 1% growth at their two smallest parks, Universal still won't surpass them at the lowest levels. But that's not what's happening- both of Disney's weakest offerings are receiving expansions comparable to Harry Potter. Between Avatar and Star Wars, they're in store for AT LEAST as much hype/marketting/attendace gains as Potter did for Universal.

Sorry guys, Disney's "falling apart" and "losing to Universal", yet they continue to reap massive profits, per cap spending is constantly growing, attendance is set to explode resort wide with the strengthening economy and new expansions- and Universal can't being to hope to equal anything Disney does in Orlando despite their meteoric rise for the better part of a decade while Disney has supposedly "mailed it in" during the same time period. It's a good problem for Disney to "suffer" through... ;)
 
Last edited:

Disneyhead'71

Well-Known Member
Neither was disappointing, unless they're looked at from a fanboy perspective. Both are good creative projects. New Fantasyland didn't alleviate capacity issues as it was designed to do, but from a creative standpoint it's a good project.
I have a hard time calling LM a good ride.
 

CaptainAmerica

Premium Member
Neither was disappointing, unless they're looked at from a fanboy perspective. Both are good creative projects.
Which are you talking about when you say "neither"? I believe there are three attractions on the table: NFL, Antarctica, and Gringotts.

New Fantasyland didn't alleviate capacity issues as it was designed to do, but from a creative standpoint it's a good project.
Agree completely. I've discussed this with @marni1971 a bit recently in the Marvel and other threads. Would you agree that the solution to MK's capacity problem is to fully develop the other parks? It seems to me that any effort to increase capacity at MK will actually backfire by drawing new guests there and creating further park imbalance.
 

Quinnmac000

Well-Known Member
People are going to visit MK and ignore the other parks no matter what...at least with a five additional high capacity rides, you could spread out the crowds more to the make park bearable but at the same time, you would have to add one attraction each at other parks to not cannibalize MK with the marketing campaign to get people to visit.
 

suburbianj

Active Member
With all the talk of Potter financials, we seem to be forgetting that Gringotts was the most overhyped, and disappointing attraction to open in O-Town this decade(with that Penguin Travesty at Sea World a close second).

You really do live in some weird Disney bubble in that tiny minded head of yours....i love Disney,just as much as I do universal....difference being universal is doing what Disney should have started doing on a grander scale a few years ago,improving the parks and adding new rides into a totally immersive environment. When Disney seen the bump that carsland had for them,they should have started spinning the little cogs in their heads a tad faster and realised that they needed to get there finger out there bottoms and get the DHS and AK expansions started pronto....if they had done that,and built at the same speed that universal seems to build there new lands,we could be sitting here waiting for both lands to open fall this year!
 

CaptainAmerica

Premium Member
People are going to visit MK and ignore the other parks no matter what...at least with a five additional high capacity rides, you could spread out the crowds more to the make park bearable but at the same time, you would have to add one attraction each at other parks to not cannibalize MK with the marketing campaign to get people to visit.
I'm not sure about the bolded. I agree with your point about people always preferring MK over the other parks, but I think it also applies to Fantasyland within MK. Bring people to WDW, and MK gets disproportionately crowded. Bring people to MK, Fantasyland gets disproportionately crowded.
 

GLaDOS

Well-Known Member
In fact, it would take years of double digit growth at Universal to equal WDW's least attended park - Hollywood Studios.

I look forward to your surprised gasp in a few weeks when the TEA numbers are released. The times, they are a'changing.

Which are you talking about when you say "neither"? I believe there are three attractions on the table: NFL, Antarctica, and Gringotts.

Sorry, I was talking about Diagon/Gringotts and Fantasyland.

I don't think anyone can argue Antarctica is anything but disappointing.

Agree completely. I've discussed this with @marni1971 a bit recently in the Marvel and other threads. Would you agree that the solution to MK's capacity problem is to fully develop the other parks? It seems to me that any effort to increase capacity at MK will actually backfire by drawing new guests there and creating further park imbalance.

I think that would certainly help, but the problem is anything that draws people to Walt Disney World will draw people to the Magic Kingdom. No one is going to go to WDW and not go to the MK. Hell, I'd venture a guess that anyone going to Orlando with their family won't skip the MK. So the park itself still needs to handle people much better than it does now.
 

Mike S

Well-Known Member
CELRBLwVIAEtJO_.jpg


I didn't know the Monorail goes to Universal now :p
Amazing lol
 

CaptainAmerica

Premium Member
You really do live in some weird Disney bubble in that tiny minded head of yours....i love Disney,just as much as I do universal....difference being universal is doing what Disney should have started doing on a grander scale a few years ago,improving the parks and adding new rides into a totally immersive environment. When Disney seen the bump that carsland had for them,they should have started spinning the little cogs in their heads a tad faster and realised that they needed to get there finger out there bottoms and get the DHS and AK expansions started pronto....if they had done that,and built at the same speed that universal seems to build there new lands,we could be sitting here waiting for both lands to open fall this year!
Except that WDW doesn't want rapid growth because rapid growth is unsustainable. Universal needed rapid growth because they were on the brink of going down the tubes. Potter provided that spark.

You need to realize that MANY pieces have to happen simultaneously for Walt Disney World to grow. Parks capacity, room inventory, infrastructure, the bus fleet, etc. all need to grow slowly and in sync. Also, WDW is approaching a "natural cap" on growth. They will never ever ever build so much that a family is unable to experience the resort on a typical week-long vacation. Why? Because most families will never take more than a week-long vacation.

Also, get out of here with "totally immersive environment" when these monstrosities exist.

hrrr-1.jpg


wizardingworld_dragonchallenge2011ww.jpg


1377236547000-XXX-New-Simpson-Attraction-Travel-Cover001.jpg


Totally immersive my backside.
 

Register on WDWMAGIC. This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.

Back
Top Bottom