A Spirited Perfect Ten

[englanddg]

Well he's going to be in Civil War next year. And his film is released in Summer 2017.

Marvel said they are done with origin stories when Spider-Man returns he will already be Spider-Man and they will skip all the Uncle Ben stuff.

Again, we'll find out how well the releases match up to what actually happens.

Disney (not Marvel) says a lot of things. Though, I openly admit the creative forces in charge seem to have a good grasp of what works and what doesn't to keep the general audience attention as well as keep the fans on board.

 

[doctornick]

For some reason, it seems that what company owns what really, really impacts their experience - I don't get that, because I care about what I get to experience, not who's name was on the invoice that paid for it.

This. I don't give a crap who owns Lucasfilm and Marvel. I do care that we have been getting awesome films from Marvel and -- hopefully -- will from Lucasfilm as well.

In fact, I think the fact that Disney bought those brands is largely a good thing for their development -- because, contrary to what some here are saying, I think Disney goes out of their way to let them be independent because they don't want to develop any confusion between the family oriented Disney brand and the more mature/violent nature of those products. Some other studio, had they acquired them, might be more apt to meddle in what the core product is (I'm looking at you, WB and trying to make every DC comics movie into a grim Batman tale).

 

[englanddg]

This. I don't give a crap who owns Lucasfilm and Marvel. I do care that we have been getting awesome films from Marvel and -- hopefully -- with from Lucasfilm as well.

In fact, I think the fact that Disney bought those brands is largely a good thing for their development -- because, contrary to what some here are saying, I think Disney goes out of their way to let them be independent because they don't want to develop any confusion between the family oriented Disney brand and the more mature/violent nature of those products. Some other studio, had they acquired them, might be more apt to meddle in what the core product is (I'm looking at you, WB and trying to make every DC comics movie into a grim Batman tale).

Spot on.

 

[lazyboy97o]

A story about Disney messing with their golden geese could seriously hurt shareholder value. Pixar's people were also Disney people. Who is someone like Ike more loyal to, Disney or Marvel?

 

[englanddg]

A story about Disney messing with their golden geese could seriously hurt shareholder value. Who is some like Ike more loyal to, Disney or Marvel?

Like Ike? You mean, Eisenhower? I'm confused...

Oh, wait, I see you edited it.

 

[WDW1974]

It would in France...and that park needs a lot of help from what I can tell...far more than HS does. That said, Marvel doesn't poll so high on their interest levels outside of UK, iirc (been about 9 months since I researched those box office results)...

In addition, there's the stuff they can do on all their other properties.

Actually, DSP has far more quality attractions than Disney-MGM does today. It is an ugly park, but one with things to do. Oh, and you can meet Spidey in that park ... right across from the RnRC, which likely will be getting a Spidey overlay in the next 3-4 years.

And, if Disney were willing to cut the right deal, they could get it for their Florida parks from Uni/Comcast...it would involve a lot of zeros and a redevelopment investment in IoA and probably an IP sale, but I think they could.

Can we not talk about Disney and dealing for Marvel rights in FL? Because Disney isn't going to pay billions for its characters and that's what it would take. Billions. ... It isn't on any table and discussing it leads people to believe it is possible.

I
I agree with your underlying point (degradation of the original Disney brand to one of Princesses and Pirates), I just don't think it's that bad of an investment, nor do I mind seeing Marvel creep its way into Disney.

Well, we'll just disagree. I have zero affinity for Marvel and absolutely see no fit for it with Disney beyond its ability to make lots of money now. Let's talk when fatigue starts to set in ... when a few films bomb at the box office after costing $200 million plus to make ...

 

[AEfx]

I don't have a 'thing' for Disney's Infinity. It is what it is. A gaming platform that attracts more 31-year-old geeks likely than it does 11-year-olds. But not the point.

The point is that all of Disney's BRANDS and their IPs are tossed in play with it if you purchase the pieces etc.

I am not negative about it nor am I positive about it. I really don't wish to talk gaming because I have zero interest. But a game in which you can use Tonto ... and Hawkeye ... and Donald ... and Mr. Incredible is one in which all of Disney's BRANDS take part in the same world, even if it is created by users.

To be fair, you have brought it up multiple times in the past day, and have many times in the past. You bring up Infinity pretty regularly as this example of what is wrong with Disney.

The thing is, that I guess since you have no interest and will never try it even though it seems to be such a focus of concern based on your posts you'll never realize, is that they don't take part in the same "world".

A user can create their OWN world, and allow them to be in it simultaneously, but in the specific themed worlds (Avengers, Spiderman, Toy Story, etc.) you CANNOT cross them. They don't all live in houses next to each other, etc.

The way you put forth is like Disney has made a little Disney town with them all sitting and having tea parties together, and that's simply not how the software works.

 

[doctornick]

Well he's going to be in Civil War next year. And his film is released in Summer 2017.

Marvel said they are done with origin stories when Spider-Man returns he will already be Spider-Man and they will skip all the Uncle Ben stuff.

Yeah, Feige actually had an interview that is floating online directly addressing these topics. Basically, they are going for a very young (high school age) Peter Parker and are not doing an origin story. They want to explore a lot of the early years SM stories, like him balancing school, work (photos for the Bugle), romance, fighting crime, being bullied, etc.

Feige just "gets it" when it comes to the characters. When you hear him talk about it, it's like he's talking to comic book fans directly and saying "We can see where Sony screwed up and we're gonna do it right this time".

 

[englanddg]

A story about Disney messing with their golden geese could seriously hurt shareholder value. Pixar's people were also Disney people. Who is someone like Ike more loyal to, Disney or Marvel?

Right now, Pixar has taken over animation...the crossover of Pixar trying a Princess film and Disney trying a "toy" (video game) film, while the former stunk, the latter turned out great, proved that to me on the outside.

The end goal, I suspect, is that Pixar becomes the Disney "animation" division...and that was a test to shove Princess stories out to them. It...didn't go so well...but there is no denying that the divisions are working closely (probably collaboratively).

And, with Frozen making as much as it did, I don't see that changing anytime soon. The next few Disney fantasy tales will be earworm soundtracks and butt jokes, all trying to recreate Frozen.

Nothing daring, nothing spectacular (like the Paperman style animation, which was rumored to be used for their next movie, but scrapped)...just more of the same.

Eventually it will stop making the returns they expected (sooner, I think, than they expect, but they have media studies upon studies to back their decisions on, I just have my gut as a consumer)...and they'll shift focus.

 

[WDW1974]

Exactly. I don't see how what they are doing now with Marvel and Star Wars is any different from what was done in the past with Miramax. One company, different brands that it owns.

Honestly, I don't think I know anyone who thinks of Marvel or Star Wars as being part of the Disney "brand". Many don't even realize/remember that Disney owns them. In regards to the Infinity game, it's more like people would say "hey, I can play a game with both Marvel and Disney characters together" not that the Marvel characters themselves are Disney characters. I mean, you had Marvel vs. Capcom video games and it didn't make people think that Captain America was a character from Street Fighter or anything.

OK, what presence did Miramax have in Disney P&R? How about in Consumer Products/Disney Store? How about on gaming platforms?

I know this can be the type of discussion that just goes around in circles, but you think people who have experienced Star Tours and Indiana Jones attractions for years or Star Wars Weekends didn't think Disney owned them or had some sort of partnership?

Not at all the same as Miramax unless I missed the Pulp Fiction Experience at The Disney-MGM Studios in the 90s!

 

[englanddg]

Well, we'll just disagree. I have zero affinity for Marvel and absolutely see no fit for it with Disney beyond its ability to make lots of money now. Let's talk when fatigue starts to set in ... when a few films bomb at the box office after costing $200 million plus to make ...

No, actually, if you read the other stuff I wrote about Marvel (since that post), we quite agree.

This whole "set the course" attitude they've taken with Marvel has me quite concerned. Both as a Marvel fan who loved the comics in the 80s and 90s, and as a Disney fan.

I completely agree, all it will take is one major bomb, and the focus will shift, and the quality of the films (and more importantly, the screenwriting) will fail. Right now it's "cool and hip"...

I have the same concern regarding Star Wars.

 

[doctornick]

I am not negative about it nor am I positive about it. I really don't wish to talk gaming because I have zero interest. But a game in which you can use Tonto ... and Hawkeye ... and Donald ... and Mr. Incredible is one in which all of Disney's BRANDS take part in the same world, even if it is created by users.

No, it's Disney brands and Marvel brands in the same universe. Just like Marvel vs Capcom were different brands in the same universe. Just like Alien vs Predator and Freddy vs Jason were different brand together. The idea of masking up distinct brands is nothing new -- this is just The Walt Disney company using different brands they own together.

 

[AEfx]

Yeah, Feige actually had an interview that is floating online directly addressing these topics. Basically, they are going for a very young (high school age) Peter Parker and are not doing an origin story. They want to explore a lot of the early years SM stories, like him balancing school, work (photos for the Bugle), romance, fighting crime, being bullied, etc.

Oh good, they just saved me a few bucks, LOL. Although I haven't seen either of the last two Spiderman films (and, in fact, I'm pretty sure I didn't even see the previous three in a theater, only on video).

I'm so tired of going back to the beginning...origin story or not, this obsession with starting over and over is past ridiculous at this point.

All too often these films are hampered by folks who want to "put their stamp" on something and retell it their own way instead of just moving forward. It's like this cycle set on repeat where as soon as you get to a place where you can tell an actual story using the characters without having to do all the exposition and place setting, they flip the switch and start over.

That's why I'm very glad for Batman v Superman, that largely they are skipping all that crap and just going to get to the meat of what I believe folks really want - to see epic stories with these characters, and not just have to sit through someone new's need to have their say on the origins of the mythos.

 

[Stitchon]

https://www.yahoo.com/tv/descendants-trailer-whos-the-baddest-one-of-117472913195.html

Trailer for Disney Channel's Descendants, about the teenage children of Disney villains. I'm not sure I like this...

god help us all

 

[englanddg]

Not at all the same as Miramax unless I missed the Pulp Fiction Experience at The Disney-MGM Studios in the 90s!

Wait, you didn't get to ride that ride MotherFFAAA!!

It was amazing!

Too bad they took it out of the Great Movie Ride...

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

Remember how that awesome Storybook Circus entry marquee debuted to the masses with those terrible cool white LEDs all over it? It totally killed the idea of a traveling tent show in the circus's golden age. It was only a matter of weeks (right?) before they were swapped out with nice, warm-light LEDs.

You haven't been looking at the right LED's. Yeah, LED headlights are like that - but standard bulbs are just like any other bulb, coming in varying hues and coatings and intensities.

I bolded the sentence I feel like responding to. I generally hate LEDs. They give off an incredibly harsh (hospital or prison, I like to say) feel in general. I also don't like how the whole campaign to switch to them was sorta shoved through when no one seemed to be paying attention.

As AEfx and PREMiERdrum said, the right quality and color of LED will do wonders. But of course it can go wrong. I have nothing against the technology itself, i have seen enough good quality LED's to conclude that they can indeed function as suitable replacement bulbs for incandescent when done right (with the exception of rarely used ornate filament designs in certain nostalgic bulbs). That does not mean all LED lights are quality, there are a ton of poorly made ones. But that is not a problem exclusive to LED tech either, i have seen plenty of poor incandescent lights as well. Those cool white LED's (icy white-blue colored ones you often see on newer Christmas lights) are awful and you won't see me defending that garbage, but there are some extremely lovely warm white and amber colored bulbs that skillfully replicate the incandescent glow and color IMHO (with the energy and longevity benefits of LED).

Panasonic in particular developed a gorgeous new LED bulb that skillfully mimics the old school clear bulbs, warmth and color of incandescent. They did several promo events with historical buildings to upgrade the older lights to their new clear LEDs, including a castle in Prague and the Hermitage museum in Russia. The result is definitely what i'd consider a success and the bulbs imo are definitely on par with old school incandescent lights they are made to mimic. I'd be happy to see this type of lightbulb lining Main Street and the Grand Floridian.




I see it as a similar situation to animatronic technology. Designed and implemented properly then it looks great, if done wrong and it looks awkward and creepy.

 

[WDW1974]

I get it, but to be honest - just like you seem to think that everyone who doesn't think it's the end of the world is a "fanboi" - you keep going 'round the same circles on this topic but just make declarations but don't really explain your point, except the nebulous "it's not Disney". You have a well-known hate of Iger, and I honestly think if the man found the cure for cancer you'd still find a way to tear it down. I think if you could just see past who oversaw the purchases, you might see things a bit differently.

Really? I've stated that Disney owning Marvel and Lucas is the end of the world? My point is very simple: Disney is now made up of various BRANDS, some very ill-fitting like Marvel, that are watering down the Disney BRAND and are now worth more than it according to various Wall Street types.

My like or dislike for Iger (or anyone else for that matter) isn't clouding my opinion on this.

Again, I point to 20K Leagues Under the Sea - you don't get a lot more Disney than that when it comes to live-action, or Davy Crockett - all things that Disney acquired or absorbed from other places. The entire history of the Walt Disney Studios is based on other people's original work or stories, one way or another.

If you are going to bring up that tired online trope of ''nothing Walt did was original either'' then I'll say we just agree to disagree since Walt made his versions into a quite unique product that may have been adapted or inspired by the works of others, but wasn't simply a copy. ... I'm sorry, but I don't view 20K or Davy or anything from Snow White to Mary Poppins to be anything but Disney in the form they were developed.

The Marvel and Lucas acquisitions are a whole 'nother thing.

 

[AEfx]

OK, what presence did Miramax have in Disney P&R? How about in Consumer Products/Disney Store? How about on gaming platforms?

I know this can be the type of discussion that just goes around in circles, but you think people who have experienced Star Tours and Indiana Jones attractions for years or Star Wars Weekends didn't think Disney owned them or had some sort of partnership?

Not at all the same as Miramax unless I missed the Pulp Fiction Experience at The Disney-MGM Studios in the 90s!

Did you ever go on the Backlot tour during that time? Back when it was a 2-3 hour extravaganza?

The largest portion of the content was Touchstone related, props from R-rated films, including a video hosted by F-bomb lover Bette Midler when she was very decidedly aimed at a more "adult" audience (this was years before Hocus Pocus, LOL).

If it were today, it would be even more pervasive - the times have changed, and it doesn't matter what Disney owns - they will find a way to promote it.

 

[WDW1974]

Then you're just not paying attention to LEDs. Regardless of legislation, they are a prime case of Disney bending over backwards to pick up pennies while dollars fly over head and lying about their commitment to being green. Disney would be saving tons of money if the entire resort was switched to LED and if properly designed nobody would notice the difference. But of course the upfront costs are greater than a half order of incandescent bulbs, so it doesn't happen.

Nope. I'm probably not. I'm busy looking at the bad lighting, LED or traditional, all over WDW. That's what has my attention. Just as if it all looked great, I wouldn't care what kind of bulbs were being used. But lighting is a mess all over property, both inside attractions and outside in public areas etc.

 

[englanddg]

If you are going to bring up that tired online trope of ''nothing Walt did was original either'' then I'll say we just agree to disagree since Walt made his versions into a quite unique product that may have been adapted or inspired by the works of others, but wasn't simply a copy. ... I'm sorry, but I don't view 20K or Davy or anything from Snow White to Mary Poppins to be anything but Disney in the form they were developed.

The Marvel and Lucas acquisitions are a whole 'nother thing.

I don't believe I ever said that.

The post you linked to doesn't show me saying that, and I promise you I haven't edited it.