A Spirited Perfect Ten

[The Empress Lilly]

Stupid question time...

Does that mean it wasn't even $800 million of Disney's money? It was $424m of Shendi and $376m of Disney?

Yes.

Yes, albeit it $456m of Shendi and $344m of Disney.

 

[jakeman]

Yes.

Yes, albeit it $456m Shendi and $344m TWDC.

Thanks. I mathed incorrectly.

 

[rael ramone]

Not ergo at all. You're stretching and twisting.


Except that he repeatedly and somewhat vociferously denied any suggestion of Disney being engaged in such activities.


Again, no it isn't. 51% ownership is all one needs to control a company.

When one of the partners is China and it's on the Chinese Mainland, percentages on a piece of paper are irrelevant. China is running the show, now, and into the future...

 

[Cesar R M]

These rumors take on a life of their own. No one ever said $800 million is missing, not even Spirit.

Phil: it seems you forgot to read this thread, I recommend review it.
Because the spirit mentioned the 800 millions more than once.

Disney has stated the $800 million has gone to adding new attractions, but the park's roster is almost identical to the one that leaked here in 2013. So...it obviously wasn't spent on last minute attraction adds like Disney says, so where did it go? The only thing that makes it suspicious to me is that they lied about it.

considering there implications of that shanghai officer involved in one of the chinese steel companies(which supposedly do very low quality steel), wouldn't be surprised if everything starts to fall like a puzzle. cost overruns due of shoddy quality is the most logical thing.

 

[rael ramone]

Not saying this will happen (probably won't), but there is something that would make the ESPN Correction seem like a mild flutter to the stock price of $DIS.

An indictment of Iger.

If your indicted CEO is considered a failure, you might get a price bump. If he's considered good, it's going down hard. If he's given godlike status by the Street, look out below...

 

[lazyboy97o]

When one of the partners is China and it's on the Chinese Mainland, percentages on a piece of paper are irrelevant. China is running the show, now, and into the future...

Excepting a few places like France with odd arrangements such as an SCA, 57% ownership means that party runs the show in every economically and legally developed country.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

Excepting a few places like France with odd arrangements such as an SCA, 57% ownership means that party runs the show in every economically and legally developed country.

Why would you think those rules would matter in China to a state owned enterprise?

 

[lazyboy97o]

Why would you think those rules would matter in China to a state owned enterprise?

Because China wants to a global hegemon and hegemony means structure and stability. You're also missing the point that if this was anywhere else in the world Disney would not be calling the shots because Disney doesn't own the park. The Government of Hong Kong calls the shots for Hong Kong Disney Resort. Oriental Land Company calls the shots for Tokyo Disney Resort. Resorts World Sentosa calls the shots for Universal Studios Singapore. Comcast now calls the shots at Universal Studios Japan because they bought 51% of that park. Regardless of being a state-owned enterprise or in China, Shanghai Shendi Group would call the shots because they are the majority interest.

 

[ford91exploder]

Yes.

Yes, albeit it $456m of Shendi and $344m of Disney.

According to @WDW1974 and other sources that $800 million was DISNEY's share it was not split with Shendi or we would be talking about $344 million instead of $800 million.

 

[ford91exploder]

Because China wants to a global hegemon and hegemony means structure and stability. You're also missing the point that if this was anywhere else in the world Disney would not be calling the shots because Disney doesn't own the park. The Government of Hong Kong calls the shots for Hong Kong Disney Resort. Oriental Land Company calls the shots for Tokyo Disney Resort. Resorts World Sentosa calls the shots for Universal Studios Singapore. Comcast now calls the shots at Universal Studios Japan because they bought 51% of that park. Regardless of being a state-owned enterprise or in China, Shanghai Shendi Group would call the shots because they are the majority interest.

No being a global hegemon means YOU make the rules. I suggest you do some business in China sometime with a 'partner' you quickly learn what YOU want is irrelvant. There is no negotiation when your Chinese partner says jump you ask 'HOW HIGH'. China is world unto itself.

 

[BrianLo]

Since we are back on the topic of the 800 million, let's also be realistic here. I'm as miffed as anyone as I was obviously hoping for more park expansion at opening.

But...

The money is not missing, no one has lost it, people need to stop making that assertion.

The money went to cost over-runs, shoddy workmanship and to foot the bill of delaying a park opening by 6 months (which is obviously not free). This is the assertion people, like Spirit, have consistently made. We know where the money is, it's just not where we were told it would be (which is something to be irritated about). There is nothing illegal about project cost over-runs though. There is no indictment coming Iger's way. Maybe for an individual in the Shanghai Shendi group at some point, which again, is NOT the Walt Disney Company.


The silver lining in all of this is that the park will open (albeit late), as it was actually intended to be from the very beginning. Finally a project that has not been value engineered in the 11th hour. A fairly good park from all indications too. Not perfect, but so far it has steered clear of all the other pitfalls most Eisner administration parks made.

The money has gone the way of My-Magic Plus though, but at least this time a tangible theme park will have come out of it.

Remember when My-Magic Plus was supposed to destroy the company as well? The company is more resilient than that.

 

[BrianLo]

According to @WDW1974 and other sources that $800 million was DISNEY's share it was not split with Shendi or we would be talking about $344 million instead of $800 million.

No, this is factually incorrect.

From the NY Times:

The additional $800 million – with Disney contributing about 43 percent and Shanghai Shendi shouldering the balance – will be used to increase the number of rides operating on opening day.

It's all semantics though, but it is only 344 million of Disney's money.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

@BrianLo , the financial failure of MyMagic+ was shouldered onto its guests with record ticket, food, parking and lodging price increases and a multitude of new up charge offerings. Just because the company can claim to Wall St. guest spending is up doesn't mean it's attributable to MM+.

 

[ford91exploder]

@BrianLo , the financial failure of MyMagic+ was shouldered onto its guests with record ticket, food, parking and lodging price increases and a multitude of new up charge offerings. Just because the company can claim to Wall St. guest spending is up doesn't mean it's attributable to MM+.

As usual to the 'Disney Defenders' "Everything is Awesome at Disney".

 

[BrianLo]

@BrianLo , the financial failure of MyMagic+ was shouldered onto its guests with record ticket, food, parking and lodging price increases and a multitude of new up charge offerings. Just because the company can claim to Wall St. guest spending is up doesn't mean it's attributable to MM+.

I was not meaning to start a debate about MM+. I certainly don't feel it was a very good project or has done wonders for WDW. SDL certainly seems a much better use of company money (in my opinion at least).

I was only asserting that it has not destroyed the company. It's more so @ford91exploder 's outlandish predications that I am trying to tackle though, rather than what you are saying.

 

[ford91exploder]

I was not meaning to start a debate about MM+. I certainly don't feel it was a very good project or has done wonders for WDW. SDL certainly seems a much better use of company money (in my opinion at least).

I was only asserting that it has not destroyed the company. It's more so @ford91exploder 's outlandish predications that I am trying to tackle though, rather than what you are saying.

Outlandish till they happen that is.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

It seems as though too much has been made of the $800 million "capacity enhancements" and prescribing too much importance to particular aspects of it while ignoring the larger context surrounding it.

To be clear on the facts of the $800 million "capacity enhancements"

• The cost was split proportionally between the partners based on equity in the ownership of the park and resort [1]
• The money was actually used for reconstruction of shoddy workmanship across various areas of the resort
• The $800 million itself was NOT a bribe, but may have seen some of that total funneled towards graft.

The $800 million, while certainly important, does not and should not be used as a catch all for the issues surrounding Shanghai Disney Resort because it is merely a part of larger problem. From what we have come to see here on these threads from trusted insiders like @WDW1974 and @Lee and in the media, there are at leat three major stories emerging from the planning and construction of Shanghai Disneyland of corruption and fraud.

1. Senior Shanghai officials, Dai Haibo and Ai Baojun, who are connected to SHDR have been proved by the Central Government in Beijing for graft now leading to investigations of the projects and departments which they oversaw, including Shanghai Disney. [2][3]
2. $800 million, claimed by Disney in the press to be used for "capacity enhancements" of SHDL, being used to fix poor construction by suppliers and contractors. This includes politically connected parties like Ai Baojun's family company Baosteel, which has been a major steel supplier on the project. [1][3][4]
3. The Walt Disney Company, TWDC, has been leading a campaign to suppress or contain any media reporting improper dealings, to which TWDC may or may not have been a party to, surrounding SHDR. This is part of a larger campaign by Zenia Mucha and her PR department to downplay the company's difficulties entering the Chinese market during Bob Iger's tenure as CEO. [5]

[1]http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/29/b...-800-million-more-in-shanghai-disneyland.html
[2]http://www.scmp.com/news/china/arti...aibo-faces-formal-graft-probe-blow-struggling
[3]http://uk.reuters.com/article/2015/11/10/uk-china-corruption-idUKKCN0SZ0QN20151110
[4]http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/a-spirited-perfect-ten.894588/page-1426#post-6978244
[5]http://insightsandsounds.blogspot.com/2015/02/the-amazing-disappearing-article-disney.html

 

[lazyboy97o]

No being a global hegemon means YOU make the rules. I suggest you do some business in China sometime with a 'partner' you quickly learn what YOU want is irrelvant. There is no negotiation when your Chinese partner says jump you ask 'HOW HIGH'. China is world unto itself.

Making rules still means there are rules. And your not the only who has done business in China, not that I have any reason to believe anything you claim.

It seems as though too much has been made of the $800 million "capacity enhancements" and prescribing too much importance to particular aspects of it while ignoring the larger context surrounding it.

To be clear on the facts of the $800 million "capacity enhancements"

• The cost was split proportionally between the partners based on equity in the ownership of the park and resort [1]
• The money was actually used for reconstruction of shoddy workmanship across various areas of the resort
• The $800 million itself was NOT a bribe, but may have seen some of that total funneled towards graft.

The $800 million, while certainly important, does not and should not be used as a catch all for the issues surrounding Shanghai Disney Resort because it is merely a part of larger problem. From what we have come to see here on these threads from trusted insiders like @WDW1974 and @Lee and in the media, there are at leat three major stories emerging from the planning and construction of Shanghai Disneyland of corruption and fraud.

1. Senior Shanghai officials, Dai Haibo and Ai Baojun, who are connected to SHDR have been proved by the Central Government in Beijing for graft now leading to investigations of the projects and departments which they oversaw, including Shanghai Disney. [2][3]
2. $800 million, claimed by Disney in the press to be used for "capacity enhancements" of SHDL, being used to fix poor construction by suppliers and contractors. This includes politically connected parties like Ai Baojun's family company Baosteel, which has been a major steel supplier on the project. [1][3][4]
3. The Walt Disney Company, TWDC, has been leading a campaign to suppress or contain any media reporting improper dealings, to which TWDC may or may not have been a party to, surrounding SHDR. This is part of a larger campaign by Zenia Mucha and her PR department to downplay the company's difficulties entering the Chinese market during Bob Iger's tenure as CEO. [5]

[1]http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/29/b...-800-million-more-in-shanghai-disneyland.html
[2]http://www.scmp.com/news/china/arti...aibo-faces-formal-graft-probe-blow-struggling
[3]http://uk.reuters.com/article/2015/11/10/uk-china-corruption-idUKKCN0SZ0QN20151110
[4]http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/a-spirited-perfect-ten.894588/page-1426#post-6978244
[5]http://insightsandsounds.blogspot.com/2015/02/the-amazing-disappearing-article-disney.html

Those aren't emerging stories. The first two are complete non-stories and the third hasn't gone anywhere but here with its source being a blog whose author is a member.

 

[jakeman]

Those aren't emerging stories. The first two are complete non-stories and the third hasn't gone anywhere but here with its source being a blog whose author is a member.

But he used footnotes...

 

[the.dreamfinder]

Lest anyone forget the extent of the Chinese government's control over Bob Iger, here's a report from one of Spirit's sources regarding the botched Disney Store grand opening and cancelled hard hat tour of SHDR.

I had planned on getting this out last week, but issues with timing, translation (of parts) and the general sense in the fan community that this isn't as important as the new MK Hub or Chef Mickey's new brunch (hint: it's a $40 breakfast with a few 'extra' items!) made me wonder if it just wasn't more valuable to me than it was to 'WDW1974' and the MAGICal community.

We all know what happened when Bob Iger and Tom Staggs went to China in terms of anything public ... or nothing public as it turned out. This here is what was supposed to/scheduled to happen.

You know, as other members here have pointed out, Bob Iger is a very shy and humble man who stays far away from the spotlight. He isn't someone who is apt to be found in ... I dunno ... the cab of a DLR monorail attempting to emulate Walt right down to the cardigan, seated next to one of the world's power couples. Nah, you'd never see that.

Simply put, even if no one in what's left of journalism ever writes about it (hey, Brooks, did you really almost run over D-I-C-K Van D-Y-K-E --absurd filters here, guys, this isn't a children's forum and they know all about dicks and dykes! -- because you were texting and driving at the same time after whoring around DL's 60th kickoff? I bet all your pals back in the circus are so proud of you!), Bob and Tom's Shanghai Surprise couldn't have gone worse. And, no, it doesn't bode well for the future for the company over there at all.

With my commentary down, enjoy the read:



19 May, Shanghai Disney Resort

Agreed for Shanghai Disneyland site//

A "cavalcade of characters" will be transported to SHDLR with official logo "hardhats". The Walt Disney Company storyboard, as previously reviewed, will be filmed for Disney's archives and possible future promotional use. As presented and visualized, Disney Chairman and CEO Robert Iger and Disney COO Tom Staggs will join the cast, both the characters and preselected members of the design and construction team, for filming.
Before site exteriors are filmed, as approved, interior filming of executives and dignitaries "studiously reviewing" plans will occur. Castle finial will be hoisted for placement with assembled cast joined by workers, dragons and Shanghai dignitaries to be photographed for internal use and media distribution. With partners and the cavalcade of characters looking on from the temporary stage, the topping off ceremony will conclude with workers positioning peony on structure.

***Fireworks remain in notes and not indicated as artistic flourish in the storyboard.***

Approved for on-site "appearance" lists only Iger and Staggs. (Cheung, Kang and Candland not included.)
Emphasis on, "Authentically Disney, Distinctly Chinese."

Topping off ceremony will remain under the direction of local authorities.
20 May, Disney Store Shanghai Opening

Agreed for the Disney Store in Lujiazui (within the footprint in the shadow of the Pearl Tower)//

9,257 sq ft interior with a lease of approximately 54,000 sq ft.

Official "launch" of Shanghai Disney Resort with kickoff celebration led by Disney Chairman and CEO Robert A. Iger marking Disney's first location in the Chinese mainland utilizing the store as the brand's jumping off point to begin the buildup to the opening of Shanghai Disneyland. Executives in attendance and to be acknowledged include Thomas Staggs, COO of Disney, Luke Kang, MD TWDC Greater China and Stanley Cheung, Chairman of TWDC Greater China.

Onstage the celebration will include a "cavalcade of Disney characters." Included in the welcoming ceremony will be Disney, Pixar, Marvel and Star Wars. The characters will embrace Robert Iger and select Shanghai dignitaries who remain for the "turning of the key." Twin dragons will mark the celebration and be pictured in the landmark opening with Mr Iger and Shanghai's senior most official in attendance.

Media presence described as "significant" and consistent with a "momentous partnership" between the government and TWDC.

Disney Chairman and CEO to welcome "first family" of Shanghai's Disney Store and "invite all" to come inside and experience the magic of Disney. The Disney Store "will promote" unique products and being "culturally harmonious" in its offerings and location at the Pearl Tower.

Emphasis on, "Authentically Disney, Distinctly Chinese."

The Disney Store Shanghai opening will remain under the direction of local authorities.

-- Upon wheels down in Shanghai, TWDC was informed the CCP's designated media/apparatus would control all appearances and access would be "as indicated" by hosts/escorts.

-- In keeping with China's previous and consistent position, no pictures would be allowed for release nor could the Disney characters be brought on-site "for purposes of propaganda" with security and safety issues cited.

-- Iger and Staggs were told they lacked "proper certification" to be allowed to walk the construction site or be present for the topping off from the park.

-- On May 19, Disney Chairman and CEO Robert Iger was given a tour of the Disney Store Shanghai. His escorts were told no photographs would be allowed aside from the government assigned team memorializing the visit [to China and not only the store], and this was told to Mr Iger.

-- Shortly after the visit to the store, it was learned through the hosts/escorts that Mr Iger has taken pictures and posed for "propaganda purposes" in the store. The photograph of Mr Iger holding the stormtrooper was viewed and "ordered to be destroyed." Later, hours prior to the scheduled opening of the store, the picture was leaked.

-- Disney assured its hosts the picture was not intentionally released and would not be used.

-- Shanghai officials in charge of the store opening determined on the morning of May 20 that no representatives of TWDC from Burbank would be allowed and Iger and Staggs "were held" at their hotel for just then scheduled "essential meetings" concerning "grave matters."

-- It was negotiated that no Disney presence would be "potentially alarming" to the business community and bode poorly for the future of the relationship between TWDC (Western businesses operating in China) and Greater China, so officials agreed to abbreviated terms. Mickey Mouse and Minnie Mouse would be allowed, no other characters. Paul Candland, just in from Tokyo, would be the only "named" executive of TWDC at the opening.

-- Less than 25 "official guests" were in attendance with Mr Candland being the sole representative of Disney. Comments indicating this was Disney's "arrival in the Chinese mainland" would be tempered and were edited by the local authorities assigned to the propaganda team for the SHDLR project (several of whom came from the official news agency, Xinhua).

-- Candland had some difficulty with the script which had only been presented to him immediately prior to the appearance. The focus on children, girls and young families was "problematic" for Candland as it was not consistent with Disney marketing or comments Disney would make.

-- The photograph of the twin dragons with the Disney Store in the background was deemed to be "the appropriate" photograph for circulation in China and elsewhere.

-- No distinction was made between Shanghai Disney Resort, a partnership, and the Disney Store in Shanghai, an entity owned entirely by TWDC.

-- Disney's Iger and Staggs were not on the manifest for the premiere of Tomorrowland, but they were expected. This was not a concern for the officials as it was seen as appropriate and desired for a Western studio head to appear on the red carpet for such an event and reinforced the import of China and the Chinese market to the West.

-- China made it known Disney's introduction to the Chinese mainland would be within the context of the resort and its foundational material (IP?) belonging to "the people of China." TWDC would not be allowed marketing control of the resort or its opening ceremonies and would have "limited administrative" input.

-- As of this visit, a plaque consistent with what appears in each Magic Kingdom will not be part of Shanghai Disneyland. Such a marker would "not be consistent" and "confuse and conflict" visitors who do not know of Walt Disney and will be invited in the state-directed propaganda to "their" park. Shanghai Disney Resort is not intended to be marketed as a destination except for the people of China.

END OF INFO/ITINERARY
The below is commentary from my sources in Asia, pieced together and parsed by me, but not my words (well, except for the final sentence. That's all me!) -- 74.

Relationship is not one of mutual respect and tolerance for Disney's leadership is nonexistent. Bob Weis, the leader of the SHDLR project, has not been a visible presence at the site in quite some time. Around August/September of 2014 something happened that indicated "a change in leadership" had occurred and Weis was not a part of that.

Everything heard is consistent with a complete breakdown between the corporate culture of Iger and Staggs and Disney's government partners (Shendi/CCP). The 'stalling' and eventual refusal to allow Disney to open the store was a shocking move highlighting the increasingly incendiary nature of the arrangement between "the iconic American company" and its partners in government. It was a bold move that broke with how these matters are traditionally handled, so much so that it was believed another business interest may have applied pressure to cause Disney to 'lose face' among the elite class. Another American businessman with substantial interests in Asia and an adversarial relationship with Disney is said to have "placed additional bumps in the road."

The CCP does not have to show "ownership" of the project. Disney does.