A Spirited Perfect Ten

TalkingHead

Well-Known Member
In terms of "traditional" dark rides (excluding Hunny Hunt from this equation entirely), i'd rank both Alice in Wonderland and Pinocchio as far better than WDW's Pooh IMO. I actually feel that Pooh is a weaker ride than all of Disneyland's classic dark rides. Even Mr Toad I think gets a bit of an edge (doubly so for WDW's), there's something very charming about it in spite of using very simplistic "cutout" props for most/all of the scenery.

See, I think Pinocchio is the least impressive traditional dark ride in the Disney portfolio. It's got its moments -- Monstro, mainly -- but overall, it's not a very dynamic or creative ride. I think WDW's Winnie the Pooh ride is superior on virtually every level from the movement of the ride vehicles to the visuals to the ride being a picaresque experience (unlike Pinocchio which tries to cover too much of the film's story).

But then again, WDW's ride would probably be more embraced if it wasn't for the fact that 1.) it replaced Toad, and 2.) the Tokyo ride makes it look lazy in comparison.

I agree with you, however, that Alice is one of the better ones. The inside/outside and multilevel dynamic is unique. It's got a long ride time for a dark ride. I think it's one of those unheralded gems that makes DL superior to MK.
 

Cesar R M

Well-Known Member
For reals why start a new thread??? Why not throw it in here with all the red lobster/adventureland/gps/DHS/weed smoking/DVC/Epcot/MK chat. I mean I love when spirit starts a new thread but I cannot believe how ridiculous they become. I don't mean to **** you guys off but my god do we really always have to have ONE thread with all the info and chit chat in it? Sheesh!
no.. I mean.. why a thread about Walmart is needed?
why they need to talk about Walmart?? o_O
 

Cesar R M

Well-Known Member
When I go to WDW, I always have the urge to eat at the various local Chinese restaurants. Although I've never had the pleasure to eat at Panda Express.
pleasure... to eat at panda express..

You're being sarcastic.. right? :confused:

It will definitely be authentically Disney and distinctly Chinese!
kB4TdTe.jpg
 

aladdin2007

Well-Known Member
I did like Alice before the image mapping and don't feel it was "lousy" (old perhaps but still very charming), but I do agree with your opinions on those implementations of the mapping technology.

I'm usually against the overuse of video screens and how they're taking over as a prominent show element. Examples such as Toy Story Mania (which I highly dislike) and even an otherwise great attraction like Gringotts to me are the wrong way to approach video use in a ride. Rides like Ratatouille and Toy Story Mania I almost see more as simulators on a track rather than rides. But I do make an exception here for the manner in which EPCOT's rides generally used video and what you're proposing. Sets and animated/animatronic figures still being the prominent showpieces, but with background and other scenery using projected elements for added detail that would otherwise be static or blank anyways. For instance (if done correctly) I would prefer clouds that move and even change shape to a static painted image of clouds.

And i'm rather liking how they've been enhancing the classic Disneyland dark rides with this sort of thing, Snow White I think was the first and came out looking really cool (love how the entire room in the mirror scene morphs by altering the walls).

While this doesn't really count as digital video mapping, a recent example of how important dynamic background effects are came to mind. Pirates of the Caribbean at WDW has been missing a lot of cloud and rain effects on the walls/ceilings for years, i'd noticed how bare and detail-less the backgrounds had been looking. But shortly before the refurb these effects were switched back on (at least when i rode in May) and the difference was night and day. It really upped the atmosphere and helped maintain immersion, disguising the boundaries of the building. These effects aren't achieved via video projection and there are now better options with newer tech, but the general idea is similar.

I will mention though that other than Pooh and Peter Pan, there aren't really any dark rides to upgrade, those are the only two there anymore. And Pan needs FAR more than some projection effects to bring it up to par (i'd guess not much can be done to get Pooh up to par with Tokyo without a rebuild and more space). For the most part I prefer Disneyland's 1983 Peter Pan (even prior to the recent refurb), as well as Disneyland Paris. Shanghai is now getting an entirely new version of the ride. And with Tokyo's Fantasyland getting an overhaul, I would imagine their Pan is getting an upgrade/overhaul or even a rebuild as well (theirs is a direct 1:1 clone of WDW's apparently).

to add some more fun into this,,,our snow whites adventures was superior to Disneylands, (before they stupidly gutted it here), and before they added new effects and the mapping to Disneylands. But before all of that, it was well known ours was the best of the two.
 

Mike S

Well-Known Member
to add some more fun into this,,,our snow whites adventures was superior to Disneylands, (before they stupidly gutted it here), and before they added new effects and the mapping to Disneylands. But before all of that, it was well known ours was the best of the two.
I'd say it was the best period. Out of all the versions. Only we had a proper ending.
 

tirian

Well-Known Member
I did like Alice before the image mapping and don't feel it was "lousy" (old perhaps but still very charming), but I do agree with your opinions on those implementations of the mapping technology.

I'm usually against the overuse of video screens and how they're taking over as a prominent show element. Examples such as Toy Story Mania (which I highly dislike) and even an otherwise great attraction like Gringotts to me are the wrong way to approach video use in a ride. Rides like Ratatouille and Toy Story Mania I almost see more as simulators on a track rather than rides. But I do make an exception here for the manner in which EPCOT's rides generally used video and what you're proposing. Sets and animated/animatronic figures still being the prominent showpieces, but with background and other scenery using projected elements for added detail that would otherwise be static or blank anyways. For instance (if done correctly) I would prefer clouds that move and even change shape to a static painted image of clouds.

And i'm rather liking how they've been enhancing the classic Disneyland dark rides with this sort of thing, Snow White I think was the first and came out looking really cool (love how the entire room in the mirror scene morphs by altering the walls).

While this doesn't really count as digital video mapping, a recent example of how important dynamic background effects are came to mind. Pirates of the Caribbean at WDW has been missing a lot of cloud and rain effects on the walls/ceilings for years, i'd noticed how bare and detail-less the backgrounds had been looking. But shortly before the refurb these effects were switched back on (at least when i rode in May) and the difference was night and day. It really upped the atmosphere and helped maintain immersion, disguising the boundaries of the building. These effects aren't achieved via video projection and there are now better options with newer tech, but the general idea is similar.

I will mention though that other than Pooh and Peter Pan, there aren't really any dark rides to upgrade, those are the only two there anymore. And Pan needs FAR more than some projection effects to bring it up to par (i'd guess not much can be done to get Pooh up to par with Tokyo without a rebuild and more space). For the most part I prefer Disneyland's 1983 Peter Pan (even prior to the recent refurb), as well as Disneyland Paris. Shanghai is now getting an entirely new version of the ride. And with Tokyo's Fantasyland getting an overhaul, I would imagine their Pan is getting an upgrade/overhaul or even a rebuild as well (theirs is a direct 1:1 clone of WDW's apparently).
I wasn't a fan of Alice pre-refurb, but now it's one of my favorite attractions in DL. It puts you right in the middle of the animated lunacy.

Pinocchio is just kind of "there" for me. I could take it or leave it.

EDIT: I completely agree with you re: projections. Unless an attraction is specifically supposed to be a movie, screens feel lazy when they don't back up a full set of AAs. That's also my objection to Ratatouille in WDSP.
 

MerlinTheGoat

Well-Known Member
to add some more fun into this,,,our snow whites adventures was superior to Disneylands, (before they stupidly gutted it here), and before they added new effects and the mapping to Disneylands. But before all of that, it was well known ours was the best of the two.
Disneyland's has its own merits as well, but I get and mostly agree with the sentiments about WDW's. WDW's had the benefit of a relatively large ending scene, so it gets a definite advantage there. Though Disneyland had some other additional and/or more detailed scenes. The mine scene in particular has more physical detail to the mine (particularly carts and bags full of shining gemstone props), WDW's just uses painted flat walls there (Mine Train now has the definitive diamond mine scene though lol). There's also an additional figure of the witch (in her young form) spying on Snow White outside of the cottage. The dungeon scenes are also longer at Disneyland. So it's not without its own merits. Though i'd praise WDW's forest scenes for being better.

Somewhat unrelated to the ride itself, but i'll also mention that the facade and queue of Disneyland's was also better than WDW's, courtesy of Disneyland's New Fantasyland from 1983.

However special praise must be given to whomever did the art in the WDW version. I'm referring to the GORGEOUS painted murals on the background scenery. Other technical aspects of the ride definitely needed upgrading, but the lovely timeless paintings still gave the ride a ton of credit. This gives it high respect from me because i'm a huge fan of hand drawn art. They're very colorful and feel like they were taken directly from the film. It made you feel like you were literally inside the art of the movie itself. The forest scenes in particular shine with beauty here. Disneyland doesn't have the same level of painted detail on its background walls for some reason. This is IMO why WDW's was so good and arguably superior to even the Disneyland version (in spite of its admittedly impressive and awesome technical upgrades), unfortunately a great deal of impressive art in the background scenery was lost forever with its closure.



I'd say it was the best period. Out of all the versions. Only we had a proper ending.
Paris has a proper ending as well, though still not as good/large/long as WDW's. The ride itself is basically an exact clone of the Disneyland's version (pre projection mapping) but they had the additional space to add the farewell scene from WDW's right before you exit the ride. WDW's still had the additional exclusive glass coffin prior to the final farewell though.

If it gets the digital mapping effects, Paris will have the current best version. Though again lacks the gorgeous painted murals of WDW's.
 
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Mike S

Well-Known Member
Disneyland's has its own merits as well, but I get and mostly agree with the sentiments about WDW's. WDW's had the benefit of a relatively large ending scene, so it gets a definite advantage there. Though Disneyland had some other additional and/or more detailed scenes. The mine scene in particular has more physical detail to the mine (particularly carts and bags full of shining gemstone props), WDW's just uses painted flat walls there (Mine Train now has the definitive diamond mine scene though lol). There's also an additional figure of the witch (in her young form) spying on Snow White outside of the cottage. The dungeon scenes are also longer at Disneyland. So it's not without its own merits. Somewhat unrelated to the ride itself, but i'll also mention that the facade and queue of Disneyland's was also better than WDW's, courtesy of Disneyland's New Fantasyland from 1983.

However special praise must be given to whomever did the art in the WDW version. I'm referring to the GORGEOUS painted murals on the background scenery. This gives it high respect from me because i'm a huge fan of hand drawn art. They're very colorful and feel like they were taken directly from the film. It made you feel like you were literally inside the art of the movie itself. Disneyland doesn't have the same level of painted detail on its background walls for some reason.


Paris has a proper ending as well, though still not as good/large/long as WDW's. The ride itself is basically the same as Disneyland's version (pre projection mapping) but they had the additional space to add the farewell scene from WDW's right before you exit the ride. WDW's still had the additional exclusive glass coffin prior to the final farewell though.

If it gets the digital mapping effects, Paris will have the current best version.
I'm wondering what'll happen in Tokyo. Hasn't it been hinted at on here that Tokyo's New Fantasyland could include updates for their dark rides? As I understand it their version of Snow White is an exact clone of the original MK version. Maybe some props that didn't go to the Mine Train make their way to Japan, like the glass coffin?
 

MerlinTheGoat

Well-Known Member
I'm wondering what'll happen in Tokyo. Hasn't it been hinted at on here that Tokyo's New Fantasyland could include updates for their dark rides? As I understand it their version of Snow White is an exact clone of the original MK version. Maybe some props that didn't go to the Mine Train make their way to Japan, like the glass coffin?
The first half looks like an exact clone of MK's original version. That changes however when you reach the cottage scene, it veers off into very different sequences. Tokyo's ends similarly to Disneyland's with the witch atop the cliff and the dwarfs trying to get to her, though she still crushes riders with the boulder. MK's ended inside the mine (a much longer mine sequence). The witch appeared atop a mineshaft beam at the end and crushes riders with a giant emerald Instead of a boulder. I'd say it's easily the weirdest and least like the movie of any movie-based Fantasyland dark ride.

We got killed on both Snow White and Mr Toad, and Mr Toad sent us to hell... What a coddled generation we are now witnessing.

MK original-

Alternate version for visibility purposes (cameras sucked at capturing dark rides back then)-


Tokyo's-


When MK's was redone in the 90's, it was REALLY redone. Scenes apparently were moved around entirely (new ones added and old ones subtracted) and everything was repainted (brilliantly with very talented artists) and such. I'd guess Tokyo's basic show building is pretty similar in size and layout to MK's at least, even if the scene contents were somewhat different in the second half.

I do wonder if Peter Pan and Snow White will be receiving alterations in Tokyo's New Fantasyland project. They definitely need it, their Snow White is presently the oldest and most outdated at the moment, and their Peter Pan is identical to WDW's. Does anyone know anything?
 
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Mike S

Well-Known Member
The first half looks like an exact clone of MK's original version. That changes however when you reach the cottage scene, it veers off into very different sequences. Tokyo's ends similarly to Disneyland's with the witch atop the cliff and the dwarfs trying to get to her, though she still crushes riders with the boulder. MK's ended inside the mine (a much longer mine sequence). The witch appeared atop a mineshaft beam at the end and crushes riders with a giant emerald Instead of a boulder. I'd say it's easily the weirdest and least like the movie of any movie-based Fantasyland dark ride.

We got killed on both Snow White and Mr Toad, and Mr Toad sent us to hell... What a coddled generation we are now witnessing.

MK original-

Alternate version for visibility purposes (cameras sucked at capturing dark rides back then)-


Tokyo's-


When MK's was redone in the 90's, it was REALLY redone. Scenes apparently were moved around entirely (new ones added and old ones subtracted) and everything was repainted (brilliantly with very talented artists) and such. I'd guess Tokyo's basic show building is pretty similar in size and layout to MK's at least, even if the scene contents were somewhat different in the second half.

I do wonder if Peter Pan and Snow White will be receiving alterations in Tokyo's New Fantasyland project. They definitely need it, their Snow White is presently the oldest and most outdated at the moment, and their Peter Pan is identical to WDW's. Does anyone know anything?

Wow, I really miss that ride now. Such detail. As I recall it closed on a Thursday and I was there the Tuesday before because we wouldn't be able to go the day of. Closest I've been to going on a ride before it closes. When it comes to openings I did get on Forbidden Journey the day of. Will never forget that.
 

BrerJon

Well-Known Member
makes me wonder if he's seen the movie.. the orange and blue teams are well understood from the flick.

It looks great, but I have trouble imagining the average WDW guest jumping quickly onto a bike and getting into position. I could see this taking *forever* to load if they built it in Orlando.
 

DocMcHulk

Well-Known Member
On the subject of EPCOT, took my 39 y.o. friend for the first time ever today. He hated Nemo. Didn't get JIYI. Loved Soarin', got behind drinking around the world. But his final verdict: "Universal's better."

Should mention he got maingated, admitted if he'd dropped $100 he'd have felt less charitable.
Nemo is great.... if you are under 10.
The imagination pavilion is a thematic mess (I hope Inside Out finds a way to resurrect is... yes, I might be willing to sacrifice Figment if they make the pavilion great again).
The Land is a solid pavilion, could use a little plusing.
UoE needs a modernizaton, but can still be great if given some love.
"Tron Track" is solid.
Mission: Space is solid.
SSE is solid... until the end.
The World Showcase is fun to walk, nothing really to complain about there other than it would be nice is they added a few things to the existing pavilions (and not change Norway).

Give EPCOT Center $500m and I think it's near the top of US Disney Parks.
 
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GiveMeTheMusic

Well-Known Member
The first half looks like an exact clone of MK's original version. That changes however when you reach the cottage scene, it veers off into very different sequences. Tokyo's ends similarly to Disneyland's with the witch atop the cliff and the dwarfs trying to get to her, though she still crushes riders with the boulder. MK's ended inside the mine (a much longer mine sequence). The witch appeared atop a mineshaft beam at the end and crushes riders with a giant emerald Instead of a boulder. I'd say it's easily the weirdest and least like the movie of any movie-based Fantasyland dark ride.

We got killed on both Snow White and Mr Toad, and Mr Toad sent us to hell... What a coddled generation we are now witnessing.

MK original-

Alternate version for visibility purposes (cameras sucked at capturing dark rides back then)-


Tokyo's-


When MK's was redone in the 90's, it was REALLY redone. Scenes apparently were moved around entirely (new ones added and old ones subtracted) and everything was repainted (brilliantly with very talented artists) and such. I'd guess Tokyo's basic show building is pretty similar in size and layout to MK's at least, even if the scene contents were somewhat different in the second half.

I do wonder if Peter Pan and Snow White will be receiving alterations in Tokyo's New Fantasyland project. They definitely need it, their Snow White is presently the oldest and most outdated at the moment, and their Peter Pan is identical to WDW's. Does anyone know anything?


I don't know about Snow White, but Tokyo and Paris both have lengthy Peter Pan refurbs scheduled. Tokyo's is already on their website.
 

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