A Spirited 15 Rounds ...

Pixieish

Well-Known Member
Thing is, I don't know how it is going to be stopped. I mean, look at both the Democrat and the Republican party in 2016. Both were split wide open - on the Republican side, you had the Never Trumpers/Trump Supporters, on the Democratic side, you famously have what went down between Hillary and Bernie (which our Russian friends exposed).

The parties are both in shambles, while Republicans will undoubtedly know who their next candidate is, the Democrats haven't even started (and we are only 2 years out). The same thing will happen to Republicans when they don't have an incumbent. In a national election, I have a hard time seeing how either party is going to be able to sustain getting behind a single cannidate, given all the new litmus tests that we have come to expect.
My big questions are, how far is it going to escalate before change actually takes place, and will the change that does eventually happen mean we'll be better off.
 

the.dreamfinder

Well-Known Member
I know we just throw Nazi comparisons around so casually today it is disturbing (just a few years ago it was considered anti-semetic to do so, but we have forgotten that), but intellectually, using the most extreme example in recent human history to illustrate the modern concept is not really fair or accurate.
It’s absolutey fair to compare what happens in this country to the crimes committed by the Nazis. We have a “zero tolerance” president who separates children and parents seeking asylum apart and puts them in concentration camp conditions and speeds through their cases though immigration court so as many can be deported as possible. A president who attacks the press outlets who aren’t aligned with him. A president who refers to white supramcists as very fine people and retweets them and other fascist groups. A generally weak congressional delegation of the president’s party unwilling to use their constitutional powers to check the executive. 45 is a white supramcist and the GOP, which has played footsie with racists since the southern strategy, is forever stained and increasingly consumed by this evil.

The Nazis didn’t start with Auscwitz, they built up to it. I’m not going to “wait and see” if national registries happen and extermination camps are built to determine that there is a high likelihood we are one the road to hell if this isn’t stopped.

Just want to point out how few states actually require K12 Holocaust in this country. Only five states, California, Florida, Illinois, New York, and New Jersey, require it. If more Americans actually had received it, they’d understand from the birther and “rapists and murderers” speech where this was headed.

They’d also know what happened to those who thought they could appease these forces, often spouting adult sounding platitudes about responsibility or attempting to use them for their own means.
 

Nubs70

Well-Known Member
I think what we are seeing is the end of that two party system. We are destined to be the EU, where there are 4 or 5 parties. What we saw with the Republican slate of what, 16 or 18 cannidates at one point last Presidential round, is what is going to happen to the democrats this time. There is no one candidate that will pass the litmus tests of all the various groups who now demand to not just be heard and acknowledged, but to be represented at the national party level.

It is going to be very messy.
I think we are revisiting the late 60's only the hippies now have a large amount of wealth and position they did not have back then.
 

Pixieish

Well-Known Member
It’s absolutey fair to compare what happens in this country to the crimes committed by the Nazis. We have a “zero tolerance” president who separates children and parents seeking asylum apart and puts them in concentration camp conditions and speeds through their cases though immigration court so as many can be deported as possible. A president who attacks the press outlets who aren’t aligned with him. A president who refers to white supramcists as very fine people and retweets them and other fascist groups. A generally weak congressional delegation of the president’s party unwilling to use their constitutional powers to check the executive. 45 is a white supramcist and the GOP, which has played footsie with racists since the southern strategy, is forever stained and increasingly consumed by this evil.

The Nazis didn’t start with Auscwitz, they built up to it. I’m not going to “wait and see” if national registries happen and extermination camps are built to determine that there is a high likelihood we are one the road to hell if this isn’t stopped.

Just want to point out how few states actually require K12 Holocaust in this country. Only five states, California, Florida, Illinois, New York, and New Jersey, require it. If more Americans actually had received it, they’d understand from the birther and “rapists and murderers” speech where this was headed.

They’d also know what happened to those who thought they could appease these forces, often spouting adult sounding platitudes about responsibility or attempting to use them for their own means.
I live in New England and we're supposed to have the best schools in the country, but we really screw up in regards to teaching history. When I was in school from the 1970s-1990, it was primarily memorization of dates and individual people and events that was required. Now that I have a son who is in 6th grade, they're doing better, but only very marginally so. There's no continuity to or connection between what they teach, so in order to grasp what was going on globally at any given time, you have to learn it on your own or become a world history major in college. As a parent, I totally get the rationale behind softening things to age-appropriate levels, but I really feel like we can convey facts without destroying kids' innocence, and that teaching them how events all over the world shape the way things are today is important. In a lot of areas, I don't think we don't prepare our children to live in the real world, but particularly with regard to world history and politics. I also feel like communication and debate needs to become a part of the curriculum because very few people are able to have a discussion - like the one we've been having here - with many differing opinions without letting their emotions get the best of them.
 

the.dreamfinder

Well-Known Member
I think what we are seeing is the end of that two party system. We are destined to be the EU, where there are 4 or 5 parties. What we saw with the Republican slate of what, 16 or 18 cannidates at one point last Presidential round, is what is going to happen to the democrats this time. There is no one candidate that will pass the litmus tests of all the various groups who now demand to not just be heard and acknowledged, but to be represented at the national party level.

It is going to be very messy.
The constitution continues to favor two parties. The current two parties may evolve or die, but we’ll still have two parties.

Maybe Bernie and Hillary are that future.
 

the.dreamfinder

Well-Known Member
I live in New England and we're supposed to have the best schools in the country, but we really screw up in regards to teaching history. When I was in school from the 1970s-1990, it was primarily memorization of dates and individual people and events that was required. Now that I have a son who is in 6th grade, they're doing better, but only very marginally so. There's no continuity to or connection between what they teach, so in order to grasp what was going on globally at any given time, you have to learn it on your own or become a world history major in college. As a parent, I totally get the rationale behind softening things to age-appropriate levels, but I really feel like we can convey facts without destroying kids' innocence, and that teaching them how events all over the world shape the way things are today is important. In a lot of areas, I don't think we don't prepare our children to live in the real world, but particularly with regard to world history and politics. I also feel like communication and debate needs to become a part of the curriculum because very few people are able to have a discussion - like the one we've been having here - with many differing opinions without letting their emotions get the best of them.
It’s like EPCOT Center is needed now more than ever or something. That we need a positive feedback loop that shows people, through the popular arts, what’s possible and they in turn seek to improve themselves to become better and thus society becomes better.

(Chapek taps shoulder)

Guardians of the Galaxy, coming to Epcot because reasons.
 

Nubs70

Well-Known Member
It’s absolutey fair to compare what happens in this country to the crimes committed by the Nazis. We have a “zero tolerance” president who separates children and parents seeking asylum apart and puts them in concentration camp conditions and speeds through their cases though immigration court so as many can be deported as possible. A president who attacks the press outlets who aren’t aligned with him. A president who refers to white supramcists as very fine people and retweets them and other fascist groups. A generally weak congressional delegation of the president’s party unwilling to use their constitutional powers to check the executive. 45 is a white supramcist and the GOP, which has played footsie with racists since the southern strategy, is forever stained and increasingly consumed by this evil.

The Nazis didn’t start with Auscwitz, they built up to it. I’m not going to “wait and see” if national registries happen and extermination camps are built to determine that there is a high likelihood we are one the road to hell if this isn’t stopped.

Just want to point out how few states actually require K12 Holocaust in this country. Only five states, California, Florida, Illinois, New York, and New Jersey, require it. If more Americans actually had received it, they’d understand from the birther and “rapists and murderers” speech where this was headed.

They’d also know what happened to those who thought they could appease these forces, often spouting adult sounding platitudes about responsibility or attempting to use them for their own means.
We have passed Nuremburg laws?
 

the.dreamfinder

Well-Known Member
We have passed Nuremburg laws?
No, not yet.
But it’s clear the administration and its allies are seeking to push boundaries where it can, see the Muslim ban and child refugee detention, and abolishing norms so it can replace them with their preferred, often unaccountable, methods.

Remember, the Weimar Republic was a very weak government, easily susceptible to power grabs. American constitutional democracy, despite its many faults, has considerably stronger foundations. However, the executive branch has continued to accumulate relatively unchecked powers, across both parties, for the better part of 100 years. There are fault lines that can be exploited. A terrorist attack on the level of Oklahoma City could be a means to aggressively push into new territory like ethnic/religious registration.

Our constitution was designed to contain and remove a tyrant, but only if it has actors willing to commit to playing their roles.
 
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Pixieish

Well-Known Member
It’s like EPCOT Center is needed now more than ever or something. That we need a positive feedback loop that shows people, through the popular arts, what’s possible and they in turn seek to improve themselves to become better and thus society becomes better.

(Chapek taps shoulder)

Guardians of the Galaxy, coming to Epcot because reasons.
And yet they fired the guy behind why the movies are so great and are depriving him of enjoying the growth the movies helped him experience.
 

AEfx

Well-Known Member
It’s absolutey fair to compare what happens in this country to the crimes committed by the Nazis.

Clearly - I completely disagree. I'm cool with that. It was just a side comment I made that, up until very recently, it was deemed culturally insensitive to make comparisons to Nazis/Holocaust, as the scope of that event was so enormous and the sheer numbers of dead, as doing is said to diminish the egregiousness of the actual event. Obviously, times have changed. I'm not telling anyone what they should and should not say, just commenting on the fact people are saying it and how that line has moved.

The sad fact, is that, in the end, you and I would probably agree on most issues generally and how things should be done. The problem is, you insist on those levels of hysterics and hyperbole, all you are really doing is pushing more and more folks like me away, both because of the things you pick to get most outraged about, and the way you insist on looking at those things through such a narrow lens.
 

seascape

Well-Known Member
There is too much political stuff in this thread. All political talk should be in the political section not themepark rumors and news. Face it both parties are horrible and used by the Russians. If both sides continue down the path they are on at constantly attacking each other they have no future. Face fact the Clinton campaign was fed false information about Trump by the Russians and used it. The Russians also hacked Hillary's campaign and released that information to not only hurt her but to let her know when she won they would be releasing information obtained from her private email server.
 

Princess Leia

Well-Known Member
Did the forum break a little???
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Pixieish

Well-Known Member
There is too much political stuff in this thread. All political talk should be in the political section not themepark rumors and news. Face it both parties are horrible and used by the Russians. If both sides continue down the path they are on at constantly attacking each other they have no future. Face fact the Clinton campaign was fed false information about Trump by the Russians and used it. The Russians also hacked Hillary's campaign and released that information to not only hurt her but to let her know when she won they would be releasing information obtained from her private email server.
You gotta admit though, for political talk it's very level-headed and civil.
 

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