raymusiccity
Well-Known Member
if only there was a way to add attractions to the springs...
a fifth gate right under our noses!
They already have ! ....'Star Wars-The Void'
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A Spirited 15 Rounds ...
- Thread starter WDW1974
- Start date
They already have ! ....'Star Wars-The Void'
Mike S
Well-Known Member
I get it if there’s absolutely no real relation between the comparisons and someone was just using a stereotype, but if the statement has some accuracy to it is it really bad? It should be more of a grey area but you know, zero tolerance from people who preach about tolerance.
AEfx
Well-Known Member
Next up on the menu - Trevor Noah is today's special.
Pixieish
Well-Known Member
OUCH.
AEfx
Well-Known Member
Exactly. Bottom line is, it was a juvenile thing to say, she shouldn't have been commenting on someone's appearance period - but to pretend that it was virulent racism is just people trying to justify hating on her based on her politics.
AEfx
Well-Known Member
From what I understand of that one, and the reaction I have read, it is a good example of people making excuses for someone due to the identity politics involved, versus the actual situation. Clearly, they had reason for firing her, but since it happened to a female in the gaming industry, people are just screaming "GAMERGATE!" - the gaming equivalent of just yelling at someone and calling them a Nazi.
Pixieish
Well-Known Member
So basically everything I hate about how humans deal with everything these days. Gotcha. (No sarcasm intended.)
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Pixieish
Well-Known Member
This was a really good podcast - you can totally skip to around the 30-minute mark if you don't want just another re-hash of the events, there's a bullet-pointed list of what the discussion revolves around. The part I found most interesting is their discussion of whether Disney can do what MSNBC did with Seder, whether the cast will poot their foot down, what may happen with the next 2 sequels of Guardians, and also the bigger picture of the Marvel Cinematic Universe - Gunn was to play a major part in the next 10-years of films.
https://www.slashfilm.com/trying-to-make-sense-of-the-james-gunn-firing
https://www.slashfilm.com/trying-to-make-sense-of-the-james-gunn-firing
Quinnmac000
Well-Known Member
Nah...I disagree with this as afterwards public islamophobia was somewhat justified and tolerated all the way until 2010 when that changed. It was way more the rise of social media usage that created this.
This extreme PC culture came more so about when the rise of Facebook, Twitter, and ease of access to forums. Thanks to the anonymity of the web and the of fame for likes, retweets, etc we in the general sense have become more me oriented. When things are more me oriented, we as a society slowly justified our worth of opinons/ beliefs by likes and the amounts of likes, retweets, etc viewers, subscribers, etc justify that we are right therefore superior, thanks to echo chambers, it grows where people get a bloated sense of worth. I.e Hahha I have this many likes and you don't so you are wrong. Alex Jones somehow being a credible source because he has this many subscribers vs Colin Powell who actually worked and has experience etc. Add in groups like the Family Research Council, One Million Moms, etc dictating policy and virtue signalling one way and other groups virtue signalling another way, people are forced to choose a side and of course like usually people post it in inappropriate places like on Facebook instead of a politic forum and then get mad at those who disagree which leads to even more virtue signalling and even more of people/things needing things to be PC.
By the way its not just a left/right thing, literally everyone is a snowflake about certain topics...whether it be Disney vs Universal, Politics, Race, Gender, Movies, Star Wars vs Star Trek, etc. Even some people who complain about PC culture, get offended when people make statements about groups they are part of crying that its not PC. (I.e some people when jokes where made about President Obama were okay and funny and people needed to be less PC yet now people makes jokes about President Trump its respect the office blah blah blah)
Back in the day, people kept things to themselves and their close friends because you didn't have the web to make statements. Technology is what lead us to this point and will continue to create things like this which creates a need for PC culture.
Now back to PC culture matters to Disney.
Companies are a brand, and the issue with Disney which no other studios whether it be Fox, Sony, Paramount, Universal, etc is it is seen as a clean brand...not left/not right, somewhat progressive but still focused of family values, Church friendly and non offensive. No other studio would fire James Gunn. Universal didn't fire Joy Reid for making bigoted statements, Fox didn't fire Sean Hannity after placing out false statements that offended many to the point Fox got sued, etc. ABC, ESPN get some leeway as they don't scream Disney.
Due to the fact that James Gunn and Roseanne were hired to create family based products, their statements and actions would have to be near cookie cutter. James Gunn was a victim of his past where people legitimately were looking up dirt on him.
Roseanne Barr contract dictated this...
She choose to post it despite knowing she could be fire. Disney was allowed to fire her for that because she did this after her contract was signed. Thus this thing called personal responsibility. Doesn't matter her statement, she caused a public scandal and insulted and offened a community whether it be intentional or not. Doesn't matter if you or anyone was not offended or if Roseanne knew Valarie was black or not. Ignorance doesn't not excuse consequences of actions.
Pixieish
Well-Known Member
Okay, but there's this...Marvel Studios was really the one who employed James Gunn, albiet under the Disney umbrella. Well, guess what. The Marvel brand is on the back of the Deadpool blu ray box and guess what is contained in (I'd guess) the first 30 minutes of Deadpool? Child sexual abuse jokes. Also, Disney owned Miramax when Pulp Fiction and Clerks came out, so there's that too (drug use in large amounts in both films).
The "pure" Disney brand has been a fallacy for a long time (most "brand" images are, in my opinion). Disney used to be REALLY good at keeping their studio ownership quiet, but guess what - that strategy doesn't work anymore. The very thing that helped make Disney huge is going to shoot them in the foot if they're not super careful here. Disney needs to figure out a way to help people understand that "owned by Disney" isn't the same as "made by Disney", or they're going to be stuck back in the 1970s making films that are only all-ages appropriate. This is a monster that they helped to create.
Disney hired Gunn knowing full well that he wasn't the least bit "Disney-ish" - there was quite a bit of controversy when they first hired him, and they chose to ignore it. They purposely did that because the Marvel films aren't intended to live up to the same standards as those that come out of Disney Studios, and he proved to Disney that ignoring the controversy was worth it by grossing them in the neighborhood of $1.7 billion on the two Guardians movies alone. And this is what bothers me so much about the whole thing - they hired him because of his edginess, now they're firing him for his edginess. It's just SO WRONG, and it was a foolish, panic-filled, knee-jerk reaction in order to avoid a storm that has now turned back around on them and created an even bigger storm. Roseanne being fired pales in comparison and there were tons of people angry about that, too. (I was one - Disney knew what they were getting with her, contract or not - she has a history of being unstable.)
Disney is in a very unique place here, and they need to learn that caving to whatever mob mentality outrage happens to be hot at the moment isn't the best choice or I don't think they're going to be very happy with the results. They should have known the shift from "kid movies" into the realm of edgy, adults-only movies was going to be rough in the age of the internet, and they just failed the first quarter exam (I would classify Roseanne as a regular test in this case).
Will anyone who has EVER been edgy ever work with a brand assoiated with Disney going foward knowing that there's a big possibility they will be thrown under the bus at the slightest bit of social media freakout? How many stars/creatives are they currently working with or giving a residual paycheck to that fall under the "offensive" label that are super angry at the choice they've made? Those are just a few of the questions they need to be asking themselves right now. And I guarantee you they're more worried about the bottom line than they are about offending people - they don't answer to the mob - they answer to stockholders.
Further, what about the MCU? What about the already-finished script for GoG3? Does "severed all business ties" mean that they will hire someone to write a new script, or will they maybe buy Gunn's script? Gunn was to have a very large role in the next 10-year phase of the MCU movies and there are surely already loose plans in place for the direction things were going to take - will they have to pay Gunn for any ideas that were his or do they need to scrap them and try again? What happens if the GoG cast puts their collective foot down? Here's another question...what about FOX? FOX is KNOWN for carrying/producing offensive material. Is Disney going to cave to the mob and change FOX, or are they going to stiffen their upper lip and be prepared to deal with it? Everything here has a price tag on it. Yes, either way they were going to lose "some" money, but I wonder if the one they chose is the more expensive option in the long-term.
Disney really has some self-examination to do, and their future isn't likely to be smooth sailing no matter what they do at this point. Landing a job at the Studios of Mouse sure isn't going to hold the same prestige with as large a number of people as it once did.
And all this is ONLY the business aspects of it all. Nevermind the larger societal messages that go along with this whole thing.
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geekza
Well-Known Member
They already own Gunn's script. It wasn't something he brought to them. They paid him to write it. They can do what they wish with it at this point.
Pixieish
Well-Known Member
VERY!
Rodan75
Well-Known Member
I’m a gay moderate myself who has spent most of my adult life in the real conservative south. What I see is the opposite, conservatives who say they believe in faith, spreading hate and lies by using much of the same terminology you are using(identity politics, SJWs, etc), who are desperate to live a version of the 50's that never existed. I, unfortunately, know too many white nationalists.
But I also know that both sides have wingnuts and that most people are logical rational beings. Just because those folks have loud voices doesn't mean they speak for the majority. Maher has never represented the mainstream left, I'm a bit more disappointed in Kimmel (but didn't he apologize for that almost immediately).
I generally ignore or remove folks from my life who hold extremist positions on anything, extremists tie themselves into absolutes that don't reflect reality.
Pixieish
Well-Known Member
Extremism in any form isn't good for anyone. Disney fell into a trap set by an extremist group and has given that group validation to dig in and go after even more people.
Rodan75
Well-Known Member
NBC did a fairly good job of shutting them down last time, realizing they were being attacked and riding through it and acknowledging when they had made a mistake.
Disney has a unique challenge on social media, due to their brand positioning along with having multiple successful pop culture and sports entities, they automatically have more exposure and that makes them a bigger target. But they also seem to be a company that is more liberal in their social media policies that have emboldened their employees to be expressive (I want to say aggressive, but more in the context of aggressively defensive) which, as previous discussions have indicated, sparks more challenges to that already large target.
I don't know what the long term answer is. But as nearly everyone has said, the reactionary nature of this current moment is not sustainable.
Rodan75
Well-Known Member
This is a really good article. Thanks for posting.
Pixieish
Well-Known Member
I thought so too!