A Spirited 15 Rounds ...

[Pixieish]

“I enjoy just the raw human visceral reaction of jumping into the arena and just swinging the hammer and seeing what is left over afterwards,” he said. “Twitter is just modern-day gladiatorial combat.” - Quote from the following article about Cernovich.

Man, that literally just turned my stomach.

https://www.theintelligencer.com/en...ovich-the-Right-Wing-Provocateur-13092523.php

 

[asianway]

Alex Winter has joined creatives in their defense of Gunn.

The petition is now just over 270,000 signature and still climbing.

the guy that played "Bill"?

 

[the.dreamfinder]

 

[Pixieish]

the guy that played "Bill"?

Yes. He's been surprisingly busy since about 2003.

 

[Pixieish]

I can't even imagine.

 

[AEfx]

I’m a gay moderate myself who has spent most of my adult life in the real conservative south. What I see is the opposite, conservatives who say they believe in faith, spreading hate and lies by using much of the same terminology you are using(identity politics, SJWs, etc), who are desperate to live a version of the 50's that never existed. I, unfortunately, know too many white nationalists.

Well I guess we need to exchange people then, LOL - because up here in the north east, "white nationalists" are a boogyman and everyone who declares themselves progressive are obsessed with identity politics. Identity politics isn't a conservative term. Hell, Bernie Sanders uses it. It has to do with politics that focus around personal identity instead of greater collective good. That is based on differences and not what people have in common. And is one of the main reasons I had to #walkaway from the left.

But I also know that both sides have wingnuts and that most people are logical rational beings. Just because those folks have loud voices doesn't mean they speak for the majority. Maher has never represented the mainstream left, I'm a bit more disappointed in Kimmel (but didn't he apologize for that almost immediately).

I only gave those two examples. There are many more. You do realize that basically every comedy show on television has made some reference to Trump's appearance, many specifically calling him out because of his "orange hair" and that he looks like an orangutan? And no, Kimmel has never apologized for crap - none of them do, people on the left just cheer them along. That's why people like Colbert get away with making homophobic Trump/Putin jokes on air as well.

I generally ignore or remove folks from my life who hold extremist positions on anything, extremists tie themselves into absolutes that don't reflect reality.

That would be a lovely notion if it wasn't bashing down the door every day. I get it, you don't see that - but I see it every time I get on the internet, you can't read a story about even something like science any more without it all seeping in. There is a cultural war going on right now, even if you want to hide under a rock and declare yourself to be above it.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/n...nce-offensive-speech-makes-zero-sense-1129425
These public firings remind me of the scene in the film The History Boys, in which a British high school history teacher shocks his students by telling them that war memorials aren’t meant to honor the dead as much as to distract us from the real villains: “We don’t like to admit the war was even partly our fault because so many of our people died. And all the mourning has veiled the truth. It’s not lest we forget, but lest we remember. That’s what this is about…the memorials, the Cenotaph, the Two Minutes’ Silence. Because there’s no better way of forgetting something than by commemorating it.”

We must not let these discordant sounds distract us from the deeper injustices. Companies quick to fire seem more interested in promoting a memorial to their virtue than attacking the systemic problems that would address putting more people of color, women and LGBTQ people behind the camera and in executive positions. In the 1,100 top films from 2007 to 2017, only 4 percent of the directors were female. And even if women do direct a successful film, they are rarely hired to direct another of the same level. Over the same span, only 5.2 percent of the 1,223 directors were black, and 3.2 percent were Asian.

Who should be fired over that offensive fact?

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

It's tragic and horrid if Gunn himself was predated upon as a child. Assuming he's talking from personal experience and not other kids he knew.

I think most people would probably agree with Gunn on the priest analogy given what we've discovered about that mess. But I don't know how productive it is to hand wave away what happens in Hollywood with "well yeah but it happens elsewhere too". Regular everyday people can be predators too, but it's much harder to pull off and get away with it than someone like a priest or wealthy person in the movie industry. Weinstein avoided trouble for years until there were finally tapes released.

Much like Weinstein's known behavior (or to a lesser extent, John Lasseter), there's this apparent "open secret" that Hollywood is infested with pedophiles. I don't know the full extent of this. If there's anything to be found, the people in charge have been largely successful at keeping the lid on it. The rumor is that there's a huge and extremely organized pedo ring though. If true, that's a far more widespread and bold level of abuse than ordinary predators working ordinary jobs could get away with.

This is a @WDW1974 topic, and I kind of wish he was hear because I enjoy reading his takes on things. I doubt he'll respond again for a while. I wonder what he thinks about this Gunn situation. I know he's a huge GOTG fan but I don't know if he knows much about Gunn himself. I do know that 74 has been outspoken in the past about Hollywood abuse. Back when Bryan Singer got accused of raping an underage boy, 74 stated that it was true and said it was widespread across Hollywood. Within Disney as well.

 

[AEfx]

“I enjoy just the raw human visceral reaction of jumping into the arena and just swinging the hammer and seeing what is left over afterwards,” he said. “Twitter is just modern-day gladiatorial combat.” - Quote from the following article about Cernovich.

Man, that literally just turned my stomach.

I'm going to get flamed to high heck for saying this, but - at least he is honest about it. This is how many people on the far left seem to be living the "Twitter life" every day, who live by that same exact mentality but say it's okay, because they only do it to people they find offensive.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

The problem is it really is everywhere.

I worked at a rock climbing facility with a man, a middle school teacher no less, who would be fired from his teaching job and later went to jail for distributing child ography. Do you have any idea what it’s like to go back in time and replay every interaction I had during that job with him? To think that he could have slyly assaulted a child, like a Larry Nasser, in front of me or my coworkers, obscured by sight lines?

This problem is massive and the Catholic Church cover up and #MeToo are the beginning of a much needed wreckoning over sex crimes.

Gunn’s “it happens everywhere” comment reads to me as helping to provide victims with emphathy knowing they aren’t alone and can work with others to help overcome their abuse and trauma.

 

[Pixieish]

@the.dreamfinder

Thank you for posting the Kareem Abdul-Jabbar article! I was reading it while we were at the pond for swimming lessons, and then forgot about it when we got home and I got distracted.

I agree with him 100%. There's nuance to EVERY situation.

My son has been a victim of bullies in the past, and the zero tolerance/closed door punishment DOES NOT WORK. It just forces the bullies to learn to hide it better. This is an issue we've been struggling with on-and-off for 4 years, and I just learned recently that at the school he attended for three of those years, the principal and vice principal were both just fired. The vice principal is suspected of harming a child (something about bruising on a child's arm ), and he was overheard badmouthing a child by a parent. The principal, I heard, submitted her resignation because of the investigation, but there are also reports coming out that she was unbearable to work with in that teachers never knew whether she'd be supportive or an absolute dictator with a chip on her shoulder from one day to the next. Making matters even worse is that this school is where the special needs program is offered (thankfully these two are out and the program is being moved). I worked very hard with the school to try to get the bullying to stop, but it would stop for a week or two, then double-down and get worse, and the cycle would start all over again. Now, I've read no offical reports, so I'm giving the VP the benefit of the doubt on the harming children thing until I see proof of otherwise - neither of my sons ever came home with unexplainable injuries. I can totally see him badmouthing a child though. In my dealings with him, he seemed dissatisfied with his job, to be lacking in any kind of understanding of children - especially those with special needs, and when it came to an understanding of nuance, he had none. As far as the principal goes? I totally believe it all. In all my dealings with her - which were MANY because she was on my both of my sons' IEP teams - she was always very smug and condescending and behaved as if she seemed to think that her word was law - just dare try to challenge her.

The above paragraph is why cyber-bullies like Cernovich (it's what he is when you get right down to brass tacks) anger and upset me so much. I will NEVER stop advocating for victims of bullying of any kind.

 

[Pixieish]

I'm going to get flamed to high heck for saying this, but - at least he is honest about it. This is how many people on the far left seem to be living the "Twitter life" every day, who live by that same exact mentality but say it's okay, because they only do it to people they find offensive.

Let the flaming begin...

Honesty about why he enjoys it doesn't negate the fact that people like him are the scourge of the earth and need to be stopped from harming people's lives.

EDIT: ESPECIALLY when he turns around and removes context so that he can build his own out of thin air.

 

[AEfx]

I do know that 74 has been outspoken in the past about Hollywood abuse. Back when Bryan Singer got accused of raping an underage boy, 74 stated that it was true and said it was widespread across Hollywood. Within Disney as well.

I think that is the main reason you won't see Disney be rehiring Gunn. Not 74, LOL, but the fact that you hear from many different corners that the sexual abuse of minors is the scandal that is just waiting to drop in Hollywood. Some want to think it is some right-wing conspiracy - but would you describe 74 as right wing?

I don't know anything about Singer, but I do personally know someone who was a child actress who used to go to those Hollywood "children's parties" in the 80's (the ones that were brought up a year or two ago with the Corey Feldman/Alyssa Millano drama). Nothing ever happened to her, but when she looks back on them now she is like "wow, I can't believe how naive we were" that stuff like that was going on.

If there really is a lot of it to come out, I see why Hollywood is especially terrified - particularly since it seems to predominently involve males and the additional stigma attached to male victims of sexual abuse.

While people have been tossing around the easiest tweets to find, we have to remember there is a HUGE amount of them. I've seen a few people online make references to some of them possibly being replies or RT to one guy in particular who may have actually been not joking (and later actually was convicted of abuse), but I haven't seen any legitimate article out there go into it. I will be interested to see if this keeps being a story, and people really go through and research those 10,000 tweets, there is a bit more damning stuff Disney might know that we may not.

I still think, even if he did inadvertently retweet someone "bad", or what have you, that it was an overreaction, but I do see with this specific topic that Disney wants all ties cut because they are scared of what comes next (even if it doesn't involve Gunn whatsoever).

 

[AEfx]

Let the flaming begin...

Honesty about why he enjoys it doesn't negate the fact that people like him are the scourge of the earth and need to be stopped from harming people's lives.

EDIT: ESPECIALLY when he turns around and removes context so that he can build his own out of thin air.

Oh, the guy is a legit creep. LOL. No doubt.

I'm just saying, he is admitting that he gets online and "throws his hammer around" because it gives him the jollies to go after targets he doesn't like, just like many on the opposite end of the spectrum do, even if they don't realize it or admit to it.

 

[Frankie The Beer]

I will be interested to see if this keeps being a story, and people really go through and research those 10,000 tweets, there is a bit more damning stuff Disney might know that we may not.

Most of the disgusting Tweets Gunn made are nicely wrapped in precious little bows/ gifs around the net if one so chooses to look for them. Obviously I won't link the sites the content is rather disturbing.

 

[AEfx]

Most of the disgusting Tweets Gunn made are nicely wrapped in precious little bows/ gifs around the net if one so chooses to look for them. Obviously I won't link the sites the content is rather disturbing.

Oh I've seen some of them - but we are talking 10,000 tweets, and back then Twitter didn't thread conversations like they do now (plus the fact they were all deleted at some point), so it will take awhile for people to research where they fit in, who they were all in replies to, etc. So while the text of his tweets has been likely covered, there very well could be more there (example, if he sent a gross pedo tweet that was a RT or reply to someone who - he may not have even known - was actually a pedophile).

 

[HauntedPirate]

Disney is in a very unique place here, and they need to learn that caving to whatever mob mentality outrage happens to be hot at the moment isn't the best choice or I don't think they're going to be very happy with the results.

*COUGHPiratesRedheadCOUGH*

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

Interestingly 74 I believe once mentioned he used to be a GOP person. Though he seems very clear about hating what the party has become.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

The problem is it really is everywhere.

I worked at a rock climbing facility with a man, a middle school teacher no less, who would be fired from his teaching job and later went to jail for distributing child ****ography. Do you have any idea what it’s like to go back in time and replay every interaction I had during that job with him? To think that he could have slyly assaulted a child, like a Larry Nasser, in front of me or my coworkers, obscured by sight lines?

This problem is massive and the Catholic Church cover up and #MeToo are the beginning of a much needed wreckoning over sex crimes.

Gunn’s “it happens everywhere” comment reads to me as helping to provide victims with emphathy knowing they aren’t alone and can work with others to help overcome their abuse and trauma.

I agree it happens everywhere. I just think it's going to be more difficult for more "everyday" types like you mentioned to get away with certain things. They have to at least be more careful about it.

A predator who is wealthy and powerful (like a filmmaker or studio exec) has the necessary money and influence to get away with a lot of things that would destroy other people. Things like throwing raucous underage orgies in their home with little to no risk of being caught. They have the necessary money to power through controversy. And they are surrounded by people willing to help them keep it quiet. Or worse, enablers and perhaps fellow predators who are glad to get involved themselves and help keep it under wraps.

 

[Pixieish]

I agree it happens everywhere. I just think it's going to be more difficult for more "everyday" types like you mentioned to get away with certain things. They have to at least be more careful about it.

A predator who is wealthy and powerful (like a filmmaker or studio exec) has the necessary money and influence to get away with a lot of things that would destroy other people. Things like throwing raucous underage orgies in their home with little to no risk of being caught. They have the necessary money to power through controversy. And they are surrounded by people willing to help them keep it quiet. Or worse, enablers and perhaps fellow predators who are glad to get involved themselves and help keep it under wraps.

Don't forget payoffs too. As much as we'd all like to hope that anyone under the employ of our judicial system is beyond reproach, it just isn't the case. I've also wondered if there should be limits to the number of years a judge can sit on the bench, and - as terrible as it sounds - age limits for sitting on the bench spefically because of cases in which the offenses weren't considered as bad in previous decades, but at the time the crime was committed or the judge is hearing a case had taken on much more weight.