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A never-seen WDW master plan!
- Thread starter PeterAlt
- Start date
danlb_2000
Premium Member
http://www.orangecountyfl.net/PlanningDevelopment/HorizonWestSpecialPlanningArea.aspx#.U2Vlz_ldV8E
Doesn't appear to be owned by a single entity.
Tom
Beta Return
Very much so.
englanddg
One Little Spark...
The issue with the radial plan is choke points.
Wedway, or the use of controlled transportation, solves this. But, they have never caught on.
Some say it's because they are not available.
I say it's because they are a function of population density, not transportation needs.
Wedway, or the use of controlled transportation, solves this. But, they have never caught on.
Some say it's because they are not available.
I say it's because they are a function of population density, not transportation needs.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
Radial plans also require a very high degree of centralized control and commitment that is near impossible to generate and maintain, especially in an open political system. Urban development is expensive and swaths of open, undeveloped land are very temping; just ask Disney.
I know I am new here and there are lots of complaints about WDW plans. However I was just reading the Reedy Creed last plan, http://www.rcid.org/Portals/0/Documents/Comprehensive_Plan/2020_Comprehensive_Plan.pdf from October 2010.
It states the goal of one major new theme park by 2020 and 2 minor theme parks. Now it is clear that Disney Springs is one of the the minor parks and that the other one may or may not be done by 2020. However, even with all the delays caused by the economy and magic bands, fast pass and my disney experience, it is clear that a 5th gate is in their plans. the only question is will it be done by 2020. If it were to be done they would have to start building soon. The land use map shows areas near EPCOT and DHS that could be used but they could also be used for expanding those parks.
The biggest question I have is why did they buy the land to the west? Is that where they will build? Also there are more hotel rooms to be built. If a new big DVC and another moderate or value resort are also to be built with all the additional rooms and guests to lodged where will they go? Disney wants to keep them on property. That means having things to do. Not everyone wants to do the same things and a new major park would go a long way towards giving customers more options.
The only thing that is certain is that a new major park will be built and if its not by 2020 it will be by 2025 or 2030 because by that time there will be over 50,000 hotel rooms on property. With only 2 people per room at 365 days a year results in attendance of over 31 million a year with 85% occupancy just from the on property guests. Including off property guests staying in all the timeshares and hotels outside the property attendance will probably be over 75 million a year and the 4 parks can not support that a 5th and maybe even a 6th park would be needed to handle that amount.
But then again I keep coming back to the question of why buy the extra land and what are the plans going beyond 2020?
It states the goal of one major new theme park by 2020 and 2 minor theme parks. Now it is clear that Disney Springs is one of the the minor parks and that the other one may or may not be done by 2020. However, even with all the delays caused by the economy and magic bands, fast pass and my disney experience, it is clear that a 5th gate is in their plans. the only question is will it be done by 2020. If it were to be done they would have to start building soon. The land use map shows areas near EPCOT and DHS that could be used but they could also be used for expanding those parks.
The biggest question I have is why did they buy the land to the west? Is that where they will build? Also there are more hotel rooms to be built. If a new big DVC and another moderate or value resort are also to be built with all the additional rooms and guests to lodged where will they go? Disney wants to keep them on property. That means having things to do. Not everyone wants to do the same things and a new major park would go a long way towards giving customers more options.
The only thing that is certain is that a new major park will be built and if its not by 2020 it will be by 2025 or 2030 because by that time there will be over 50,000 hotel rooms on property. With only 2 people per room at 365 days a year results in attendance of over 31 million a year with 85% occupancy just from the on property guests. Including off property guests staying in all the timeshares and hotels outside the property attendance will probably be over 75 million a year and the 4 parks can not support that a 5th and maybe even a 6th park would be needed to handle that amount.
But then again I keep coming back to the question of why buy the extra land and what are the plans going beyond 2020?
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
A Comprehensive Plan is a big picture "What If?" and does not outline Disney's actual plans. As Captain Barbossa would say, they are far more like guidelines than actual rules. Disney is under no obligation to follow the plan. Look at your local city's plan some time and you will find places where reality does not line up, and sometimes it was very quickly that the plan was ignored.
Goofyernmost
Well-Known Member
2030??? By then I will either be 82 or taking a much deserved dirt nap. I don't see what highly optimistic planning and reality have in common anyway. Of course they are going to put optimistic thoughts in any future planning document, but, that really doesn't mean that they have any real plans or even desire to do so. It all just looks good for investors. In other words, it don't mean a thing.
danlb_2000
Premium Member
The numbers of new parks/hotels, etc in the plan are NOT an indication of what Disney actually plans to build, but instead what the RCID 2020 plan can support. The plan's purpose is to layout the best ways to use the land within RCID. The plan takes into consideration those new maximums but this doesn't mean they will necessarily be build, or even that there were plans to build them. I also don't believe that Disney Springs would count towards one of the 2 minor parks in the plan since it's not using much new land. The 50'000 hotel rooms you quote, again is a projection in the plan. If attendance doesn't increase at a rate sufficient to support new parks, there won't be all those new rooms either.
What land to the west are your referring to?
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
Are you talking about the Disney land west of FL 429? If so, that land was always there and Disney allowed the highway to run through their property. I pretty sure the Lake County land is conservation land required by the State of Florida.
You mean the aborted Flamingo Crossings area?
There are parts of the horizon west area that is outside the part they own on the other side of 429. they also own the missing piece on the north of the boarding canal and another piece next to it also north. I think I found 4 or 5 good size parcels to the west that connect with the existing western land. As for the land I found reedy Creek owns in lake county I have no idea what that could be for. It is not on the boarder of orange county nor near any other Disney property I can find. too bad lake county does not have the same type tax map orange county has.
The additional land they own to the west is adjacent to the flamingo crossing land. I just looked at that plan and if they took a lot of it and decided to build a 5th gate on the west side of if that plan would probably be workable. The problem I see with the old flamingo crossing plan is there are too many hotel rooms and timeshares with no large scale entertainment. Thinking about Disney springs and that it replaced the original idea to renovate DTD and Pleasure Island it would not shock me if they eventually did that. I had never followed the flamingo crossing plan but had known there was a plan that was canceled. Now knowing about the plan and the additional land they own who knows what they will do.
Tim Lohr
Well-Known Member
It's interesting to see how much construction there is on this map that did happen, or could happen. There is a lot of development in between MK and Epcot along the current Epcot monorail line, which is still considered "useable land".
It looks like the Wilderness lodge is on this map along with another complex across from it on Bay Lake, and next to the Asian Resort/Grand Floridian the Seven Seas lagoon is expanded with a few more hotels back there.
Plus this "City of the Future's" one water canal meets up with Epcot at the International Gateway... having stayed at the Beach Club several times it's hard to imagine this area being so different, I always assumed the Yacht and Beach Clubs were always part of the plan for Epcot
It looks like the Wilderness lodge is on this map along with another complex across from it on Bay Lake, and next to the Asian Resort/Grand Floridian the Seven Seas lagoon is expanded with a few more hotels back there.
Plus this "City of the Future's" one water canal meets up with Epcot at the International Gateway... having stayed at the Beach Club several times it's hard to imagine this area being so different, I always assumed the Yacht and Beach Clubs were always part of the plan for Epcot
danlb_2000
Premium Member
According to the tax records they have owned the parcel's beyond 429 for a while now. They were both sold by RCID to Disney, one in 2008 and the other in 1993.
PhilharMagician
Well-Known Member
I am I seeing that there is no Fort Wilderness? This would date the map prior to park opening?
There is what appears to be a large campground to the West of Epcot Center
There is what appears to be a large campground to the West of Epcot Center