Laketravis
Well-Known Member
Can you imagine what parks revenue would now look like if they hadn't monetized FastPass?
-
Welcome to the WDWMAGIC.COM Forums!
Please take a look around, and feel free to sign up and join the community.
Is attendance really down at WDW this or…
- Thread starter coachb
- Start date
Can you imagine what parks revenue would now look like if they hadn't monetized FastPass?
Jrb1979
Well-Known Member
I agree. The problem I see If the guest you are after can't go that often or at all it doesn't work. The parks were built for big crowds and repeat visitors. It makes no sense to raise prices like they have but chase a market that can't afford your product. Add in those in that marker that aren't into Disney like the Legacy fans were it's a recipe for disaster.
That is indeed dangerous as WDW in business courses was cited in having a 99 percent return rate.
Last edited:
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
Those parks had queue lines that moved almost continuously in packed summer crowds in the 95 degree heat for decades…
There are reasons that they now have 55 minute waits in January 1 hour after opening…
It’s a few reasons…but it’s also far from “out of their control”
They’ve created an operational nightmare and it’s biting them
I disagree. I VERY much love seeing films on Walt Disney opening Disneyland in 1955. I very much love seeing everything he said and did...and the guy died years before I was born. I can appreciate the nostalgia of films and music that were made LONG before I was born. You don't even need to be alive at the times that things were happening to get a nostalgic "feeling" or endearment to enjoy them.
I can watch a WW-II movie live Saving Private Ryan and I can get an enormous feeling of nostalgia and love for the people that lived through those times.
Why can't Disney be the same? Why can't Burbank market it's historic products to today's modern audience? Are these "modern" people not able to appreciate 100 years of incredible pop culture?
Last edited by a moderator:
That "operational nightmare" is helping to drive app-purchases and generating strong revenue.
That is why the operational nightmare was "created" and why it's being maintained.
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
Correct…which is why the attendance is falling and won’t recover
Screw jobs out in the open usually get a stigma
Subjectively I am with you.
Particularly as an owner of all those Walt Disney Treasure sets with Leonard Maltin.
However Nostalgia is an experience where objectively, you were there for it. What you describe wouod be afficionado and when Professional, historians. Like the terms retro and vintage.
Walt had this love this way with The revolutionary war and American Frontier even though he was not there for it. He had Nostalgia for Main Street America. There is a difference.
And Walt knew this well. There is a reason one of the main lands and first and last impression one since opening day are Main Street USA.
We are saying the same thing. But for the sake of getting terms right, every generation has their own Nostalgia. Particularly odd to say you feel nostalgia while watching a film about WW II. As great and palpable as it is. That is not nostalgia. You were moved by a great retrospective biopic film. Maybe nostalgia for a family member who was there that you felt due to the film. Or pride and gratitude/patriotism. But not nostalgia for a war.
For a other example:
I have nostalgia of Mel's Diner at Uni as a place I was with my dad on my first visits to Universal. I know its a meh place food wise, but a thematic staple of a core memory. That is where my nostalgia for it is. Retrospective, I thi k it is cool that it is 1950s/60s themed diner.
My dad was a teen
in the early 60s and had enjoyment of nostalgia for a place it reminded him of the same way the movie American Graffiti was made for those peeps even more so because the movie itself was a love letter of that nostalgia. Very evident in the film's tagline.
Last edited:
networkpro
Well-Known Member
- In the Parks
- Yes
It's perspective. Your nostalgia is just one period during someone else's life.
Yes. That is also true. But for it to be nostalgia, you must have been there for it the first time.
As for all the Burbank and why they can't. That ended somewhat abruptly when Eisner left. Guy at the end was rough, but he was a fan with personal brand connections to the past. Iger typically had what I used to call the Little Mermaid rule. Not much was majorly installed or referenced if it was source material older than Little Mermaid.
Last edited:
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
Break the links and see what happens…
It already is
DarkMetroid567
Well-Known Member
I give it five years, tops.
Jrb1979
Well-Known Member
Not many years left. Lol. I don't think they are going to go out of business or close but running the parks like they are isn't sustainable. What will happen is they no longer will be the number 1 theme park. Attendance wise they will always be ahead of most other parks due to being open 365 days a year.
Other parks are catching up now. Look at different polls out there, parks like Dollywood and Silver Dollar City are ranked right up there with WDW.
This is going to sound counter-intuitive but:
I think WDW can survive just fine on fans that don't care....and there are a TON of them. Fans on this forum? "We" CARE 10000% more then regular normie guests do. Many of us here can spout off book-loads of trivia and facts about all the parks and movies and Walt's history.
Yes, hard-core fans are angry at the park's deterioration in recent years and we are upset at Burbank's design and construction problems. But so what? We "statistically" do NOT matter to Burbank. I'm very sorry to tell y'alls.
Average Joe/Jane goes to WDW and want's castle selfies for Instagram. They film the fireworks on their phones to flex on social media 5 min after the show is over. Normie fans don't see the parks the way "we" do!
Normie's don't care about the window names on Main Street and won't even read them if you told them.
Normie's don't care how clean the parks are or if attractions have fresh paint.
Normie's don't care about detailed story plots in attractions or shows.
Normie's don't pay attention to details like transition tricks used when walking in between themed lands.
Normie's don't notice how well forced-perspective tricks were used on building heights or any details like that.
Normie's don't care what "Main Street is supposed to be. Marceline Missouri? Never heard of it. Why should they care?
Normie's don't care about "sight-lines" or ANY fine details in an attraction. Go away green and sky blue is all you need.
I could list 1,000 things that "we" notice but don't normies don't care about in ANY way...even if you showed them!
I would also venture to guess that most of Glendal's, younger "modern" Imagineering team doesn't care about anything I just listed above either.
So, if 95% of WDW guests do NOT care about all the things that past great Imagineers worked so hard and spent sooooo much money on to make a reality?.....if "modern audiences" don't care? Then tell me why "modern Burbank" should care?
"Modern Burbank" is obsessed today with chasing after the "modern audience". They believe that hard-to-please "legacy fans" brought up by Disney's great, past legacy creators are easily replaced by this GIGANTIC, incredible, new-age "modern audience" that is the true FUTURE for Disney's next generation of revenue generators. Burbank is probably right. Modern audiences are soooo easy to attract and there are so many of them today to get cash out of? It's easy money.
Today's "modern audience" seems to love political activism in companies today. Whereas, "legacy fans" tend to want Burbank to stay away from political activism and social messaging and stay out of the culture war. But,...seemingly, with "modern Burbank" now filled with social activist-minded creatives? What customers to you think "they" prefer to attract? (The audiences that are the closest to their hearts? Audiences and customers that represent them?)
Exactly....
Burbank knows exactly what it is doing. They have the numbers that nobody else has access too. Burbank is loaded with ivy-league theme park and media experts and WDW will be fine for a long time to come. Burbank does not need us and they have the numbers to prove it. So why bother worrying about legacy fans?
Last edited:
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
It’s not a matter of “surviving”
It’s a matter of how badly they can mess with the model to the point where some nitwit decides it’s more “advantageous” to start chopping up pieces to sell it off…
Cause the day will come.
Any idea that there will be a “select” group of patricians walking around dropping $25,000 a week for buffet food with chip and dale and the place will still churn the profits needed is beyond stupid. I’ve seen Disney sycophants sell themselves some bunk over the years to fill whatever void they have…
…this is the dumbest concept ever. Management is transactional and they will say anything…even when it passes no sniff tests.
Chi84
Premium Member
So you think they’ll be fine for a long time to come. I don’t necessarily buy into everything you said but I do agree that newer fans don’t care as much about the details you mentioned.
As far as parks are concerned, I think they are creatively dead now. Look at how the studios make all these movies that play from IP titles from the "past" GREAT creative minds at Disney. Burbank is no longer able to create ANYthning "new" today! For years now, they keep resorting back to "re-imagining" great IP from the past. 75% of the time, it all just flops! Burbank has put it's best minds into the new "Snow White" movie. They have carefully overseen it's development and poured TONS of money and enormous attention into re-writes and re-shoots and all of Brubank's best minds inspect it in order to REALLY get this one "right". Let's see how it goes next spring. Let's see how good Burbank's best people really are. Whatever they come up with?...I'm 100% certain that "modern Burbank" will be in absolute LOVE with their hard work.
The same creative black hole happens in Burbank and Glendale with the parks. They can't create anything "new" and would rather lean on a crutch and just dump already known IP into parks and "hope" people connect with that attraction. This is our future with the parks. The latest Epcot build is a proud moment for Burbank. Epcot's new "World Celebration" and "Dreamers Point" are the crowning achievements of "modern Burbank" and "modern Glendale".
I talked directly with three Imagineers on opening day and ALL three were absolutely beaming and glowing with pride at what they built.....and modern audiences just might agree with them completely.
Burbank and Glendale have chosen sides and they clearly want the "modern" audience. Ironically, Universal seemed to be HAPPY to hire away Burbank/Glendale's "legacy" creatives. Let's see how Universal does in 2025 with ex-Disney "legacy" Imagineers.
The "old-legacy" creatives that Burbank didn't want anymore.....
The same creative black hole happens in Burbank and Glendale with the parks. They can't create anything "new" and would rather lean on a crutch and just dump already known IP into parks and "hope" people connect with that attraction. This is our future with the parks. The latest Epcot build is a proud moment for Burbank. Epcot's new "World Celebration" and "Dreamers Point" are the crowning achievements of "modern Burbank" and "modern Glendale".
I talked directly with three Imagineers on opening day and ALL three were absolutely beaming and glowing with pride at what they built.....and modern audiences just might agree with them completely.
Burbank and Glendale have chosen sides and they clearly want the "modern" audience. Ironically, Universal seemed to be HAPPY to hire away Burbank/Glendale's "legacy" creatives. Let's see how Universal does in 2025 with ex-Disney "legacy" Imagineers.
The "old-legacy" creatives that Burbank didn't want anymore.....
phillip9698
Well-Known Member
I’m curious as to why you expected of that interaction.
Your expectations were that they would voice internal gripes and disagreements with you, a random park guest? Why would they voice anything except positive opinions with you?
What is entertainment to you is their job and career.
I don’t think he’s just a random guest. Certainly not a Martin but not unknown to many within TDO.