Is attendance really down at WDW this or…

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celluloid

Well-Known Member
Chi84 said:
Are you talking about older customers? None of the young kids with us had any interest in Figment. We bought plenty of merchandise but it was at Pandora and Guardians. Also Spiderman Lego stuff at DS. I guess it depends on the kids.

Honestly, I don't think our kids have ever been on CoP (maybe once when they were very young). If they change it, maybe they would be interested.
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Funny question to me because we are talking about nostalgia. By definition nostalgia...can't be experienced by the young that were not there for what it is aimed for.(enjoy, but not reminisce and experience)
My point was exactly that. Figment is pop culture zeitgeist of nostalgia more than quality of current and nostalgia based was a great example of the point.
 
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Chi84

Chi84

Premium Member
celluloid said:
Funny question to me because we are talking about noatalgia. By definition nostalgia...can't be experienced by the young that was not there for what it is aimed for.
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Oh okay. When I think of Figment, I associate that mostly with younger kids. My kids are 36 and 40 and they’re not interested in Figment merchandise; neither are their kids.

I think my point is that maybe Disney isn’t leaning as heavily into nostalgia because the guests who remember the parks as they were when they first opened are dwindling.

And I doubt the newer generation is going to be able to visit as often as we did because of the excessive cost. So less reliance on nostalgia makes sense.
 
Jrb1979

Jrb1979

Well-Known Member
Chi84 said:
Oh okay. When I think of Figment, I associate that mostly with younger kids. My kids are 36 and 40 and they’re not interested in Figment merchandise; neither are their kids.

I think my point is that maybe Disney isn’t leaning as heavily into nostalgia because the guests who remember the parks as they were when they first opened are dwindling.

And I doubt the newer generation is going to be able to visit as often as we did because of the excessive cost. So less reliance on nostalgia makes sense.
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I agree. The problem I see If the guest you are after can't go that often or at all it doesn't work. The parks were built for big crowds and repeat visitors. It makes no sense to raise prices like they have but chase a market that can't afford your product. Add in those in that marker that aren't into Disney like the Legacy fans were it's a recipe for disaster.
 
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celluloid

Well-Known Member
Jrb1979 said:
I agree. The problem I see If the guest you are after can't go that often or at all it doesn't work. The parks were built for big crowds and repeat visitors. It makes no sense to raise prices like they have but chase a market that can't afford your product. Add in those in that marker that aren't into Disney like the Legacy fans were it's a recipe for disaster.
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That is indeed dangerous as WDW in business courses was cited in having a 99 percent return rate.
 
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Sirwalterraleigh

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
Dranth said:
Len already said they were not doing this.
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Those parks had queue lines that moved almost continuously in packed summer crowds in the 95 degree heat for decades…

There are reasons that they now have 55 minute waits in January 1 hour after opening…

It’s a few reasons…but it’s also far from “out of their control”

They’ve created an operational nightmare and it’s biting them
 
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Cliff

Well-Known Member
celluloid said:
Funny question to me because we are talking about nostalgia. By definition nostalgia...can't be experienced by the young that were not there for what it is aimed for.(enjoy, but not reminisce and experience)
My point was exactly that. Figment is pop culture zeitgeist of nostalgia more than quality of current and nostalgia based was a great example of the point.
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I disagree. I VERY much love seeing films on Walt Disney opening Disneyland in 1955. I very much love seeing everything he said and did...and the guy died years before I was born. I can appreciate the nostalgia of films and music that were made LONG before I was born. You don't even need to be alive at the times that things were happening to get a nostalgic "feeling" or endearment to enjoy them.

I can watch a WW-II movie live Saving Private Ryan and I can get an enormous feeling of nostalgia and love for the people that lived through those times.

Why can't Disney be the same? Why can't Burbank market it's historic products to today's modern audience? Are these "modern" people not able to appreciate 100 years of incredible pop culture?

(Although it "does" make it hard when Burbank keeps placing "trigger warnings" on some of their incredible classic titles. I'm told that "modern" audiences have been conditioned to require "safe-spaces" now? Burbank doesn't want "Dumbo" to hurt any "modern" anxieties today?....I dunno)
 
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Cliff

Well-Known Member
Sirwalterraleigh said:
Those parks had queue lines that moved almost continuously in packed summer crowds in the 95 degree heat for decades…

There are reasons that they now have 55 minute waits in January 1 hour after opening…

It’s a few reasons…but it’s also far from “out of their control”

They’ve created an operational nightmare and it’s biting them
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That "operational nightmare" is helping to drive app-purchases and generating strong revenue.

That is why the operational nightmare was "created" and why it's being maintained.
 
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celluloid

Well-Known Member
Cliff said:
I disagree. I VERY much love seeing films on Walt Disney opening Disneyland in 1955. I very much love seeing everything he said and did...and the guy died years before I was born. I can appreciate the nostalgia of films and music that were made LONG before I was born. You don't even need to be alive at the times that things were happening to get a nostalgic "feeling" or endearment to enjoy them.

I can watch a WW-II movie live Saving Private Ryan and I can get an enormous feeling of nostalgia and love for the people that lived through those times.

Why can't Disney be the same? Why can't Burbank market it's historic products to today's modern audience? Are these "modern" people not able to appreciate 100 years of incredible pop culture?

(Although it "does" make it hard when Burbank keeps placing "trigger warnings" on some of their incredible classic titles. I'm told that "modern" audiences have been conditioned to require "safe-spaces" now? Burbank doesn't want "Dumbo" to hurt any "modern" anxieties today?....I dunno)
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Subjectively I am with you.
Particularly as an owner of all those Walt Disney Treasure sets with Leonard Maltin.

However Nostalgia is an experience where objectively, you were there for it. What you describe awouod be afficionado and when Professional, historians. Like the terms retro and vintage.
Walt had this love this way with The revolutionary war and American Frontier even though he was not there for it. He had Nostalgia for Main Street America. There is a difference.

And Walt knew this well. There is a reason one of the main lands and first and last impression one since opening day are Main Street USA.

We are saying the same thing. But for the sake of getting terms right, every generation has their own Nostalgia. Particularly odd to say you feel nostalgia while watching a film about WW II. As great and palpable as it is. That is not nostalgia. You were moved by a great retrospective biopic film. Maybe nostalgia for a family member who was there that you felt due to the film. Or pride and gratitude/patriotism. But not nostalgia for a war.


For a other example:

I have nostalgia of Mel's Diner at Uni as a place I was with my dad on my first visits to Universal. I know its a meh place food wise, but a thematic staple of a core memory. That is where my nostalgia for it is. Retrospective, I thi k it is cool that it is 1950s/60s themed diner.

My dad was teen
in the early 60s and had enjoyment of nostalgia for a place it reminded him of the same way the movie American Graffiti was made for those peeps even more so because the movie itself was a love letter of that nostalgia. Very evident in the film's tagline.
 
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celluloid

Well-Known Member
networkpro said:
It's perspective. Your nostalgia is just one period during someone else's life.
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Yes. That is also true. But for it to be nostalgia, you must have been there for it the first time.

As for all the Burbank and why they can't. That ended somewhat a ruptly when Eisner left. Guy at the end was rough, but he was a fan with personal brand connections to the past. Iger typically had what I used to call the Little Mermaid rule. Not much was majorly installed or referenced if it was source material older than Little Mermaid.
 
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Jrb1979

Jrb1979

Well-Known Member
Chi84 said:
How many more years do you think WDW can survive?
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Not many years left. Lol. I don't think they are going to go out of business or close but running the parks like they are isn't sustainable. What will happen is they no longer will be the number 1 theme park. Attendance wise they will always be ahead of most other parks due to being open 365 days a year.

Other parks are catching up now. Look at different polls out there, parks like Dollywood and Silver Dollar City are ranked right up there with WDW.
 
networkpro

networkpro

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
Yes
celluloid said:
Hyperbole aside, it will survive, but as stated The gap has closed.

Even with family entertainment in general, the Gap to other companies has diminished.
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Just curious, which do you see as a better family entertainment company these days (at least for venues, media content creation is a very different beast that haunts large companies) Herschend Enterprises, Universal , or Disney ? [Or even others that I didn't mention]
 
Jrb1979

Jrb1979

Well-Known Member
networkpro said:
Just curious, which do you see as a better family entertainment company these days (at least for venues, media content creation is a very different beast that haunts large companies) Herschend Enterprises, Universal , or Disney ? [Or even others that I didn't mention]
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IMO Herschend is tops now. They may not have the IP that Universal or Disney does but their parks are well themed and they have great rides. Add in their Christmas event is much better than what Disney or Universal puts out.

IMO the only thing that holds them back is that they aren't week long vacation parks.
 
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celluloid

Well-Known Member
networkpro said:
Just curious, which do you see as a better family entertainment company these days (at least for venues, media content creation is a very different beast that haunts large companies) Herschend Enterprises, Universal , or Disney ? [Or even others that I didn't mention]
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I think they all have different strengths. I don't think there is necessarily ine better. Particularly with strictly theme parks that is tough to say.

If we are saying globally, Merlin does quite well because they own so many destination venues.

It is going to take properties as a whole, are mostly on thrill, but in terms of destination Six Flags has a potential to really shape up if their park quality increases and is seen as value. Who would habe thought?

Uni obviously the destination city competitor
None of this means surpassing Disney now or even ever, but but the smaller gap on the competition then there was before.

Media wise, the gab is much closer.

Hard not to love Herschend.
 

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