Price Hikes Galore! (Genie+ variable pricing, ILL, refillable mugs, SWGE lightsaber and droids)

[MisterPenguin]

The sports/concert comparisons are old news…nobody goes to a concert for 7 days…. You could in theory go to eat before or after a game for example. A lot harder at disney. So your right a few hours on a limited event that is time sensitive is more expensive than a place open all day 365 days a year.

I don't buy this "NO! You can't compare two things!!"

Yes, yes we can.

Analogous comparisons aren't airtight logical statements, but they're helpful. If two things are alike in some ways, then the comparison has some worth.

And it's a bit dodgy to dismiss the comparison by saying no one goes to a sports event or a Broadway play for 7 days, when, in fact, people *do* go to a Disney park for one day, making the comparisons more alike.

And not only can one eat outside a Disney park before or after the park, but, you can leave the park midday, which many people do to beat the heat, or for pool time, or for naps. They can eat outside the park during that break. Also, Disney allows you to bring your own food into the park! I'd like to see a major league sports venue allow that. Also, if people don't have the opportunity to eat outside the park, then why on these forums are there so many discussions of DVCs having kitchenettes and people getting grocery orders to the hotel room?

So, this is why I don't buy the "You can't compare the two!!!" response. There are indeed helpful comparisons to be made when you don't box in one of two things being compared into a worst case scenario to avoid the comparison.

 

[GhostHost1000]

We must report the good with the bad.

At Boma, a cappuccino went DOWN from $5 to $4.79
The price of a single shot of espresso PLUMMETED from $4 to $3.99
double shot PLUNGED from $5 to $4.99

Powerade at some locations fell from $4.69 to $4.29
The Sauvignon blanc at Sebastian’s fell from $15 per glass to $14

With these savings, my kids will still be able to go to (public) college.

That just means they are adding more water to the mix lol

 

[Disstevefan1]

I think the price comparisons are attempts to rationalize the constant price increases at the Disneyparks.

Simply put, Disney constantly raises prices at the Disneyparks because they can.

Folks still show up and pay. I honestly see no end to it.

For decades we talked about the breaking point. The breaking point is different for everyone. Many folks hit the breaking point a while ago, many folks are hitting the breaking point now. It's different for everyone.

I have always thought, for everyone the Disneyparks prices out, there are many more to take their place. Disney Knows this.

They just released the 2021 theme park attendance numbers. Even with "Limited attendance" and folks literally prevented from entering the park, the Magic Kingdom was #1

But then again, attendance as a number is meaningless. It's HOW MUCH MONEY THEY CAN GET FROM EACH GUEST that is the true measure of success.

 

[John park hopper]

Ha Ha Ha drops a penny $4.99 sounds better than 5 -- $3.99 sounds better than 4 stores etc do this all the time

 

[Disstevefan1]

Ha Ha Ha drops a penny $4.99 sounds better than 5 -- $3.99 sounds better than 4 stores etc do this all the time

Their probably running a test to see if 4.99 sells better than 5 and 3.99 sells better than 4.

 

[ToTBellHop]

Their probably running a test to see if 4.99 sells better than 5 and 3.99 sells better than 4.

Didn’t gas companies already complete that test decades ago? Watch Disney start charging 9/10 of a penny on plush…

$30.999 for a Tink-on-drugs shoulder plush?

 

[LSLS]

I think the price comparisons are attempts to rationalize the constant price increases at the Disneyparks.

Simply put, Disney constantly raises prices at the Disneyparks because they can.

Folks still show up and pay. I honestly see no end to it.

For decades we talked about the breaking point. The breaking point is different for everyone. Many folks hit the breaking point a while ago, many folks are hitting the breaking point now. It's different for everyone.

I have always thought, for everyone the Disneyparks prices out, there are many more to take their place. Disney Knows this.

They just released the 2021 theme park attendance numbers. Even with "Limited attendance" and folks literally prevented from entering the park, the Magic Kingdom was #1

But then again, attendance as a number is meaningless. It's HOW MUCH MONEY THEY CAN GET FROM EACH GUEST that is the true measure of success.

I agree with your bottom line, but I do think it's worth pointing out their attendance was significantly down in Orlando, much moreso than almost any other FL park since 2019. Taking the theme park numbers, here is the order for attendance drops from 2019:
1.) DAK (48.2 percent decrease)
2.) MK (39.46 percent decrease)
3.) Epcot (37.7 percent decrease)
4.) Seaworld (34.25 percent decrease)
5.)DHS (25.2 percent decrease)
6.)Busch Gardens (23.21 percent decrease)
7.) Universal Orlando (17.72 percent decrease)
8.) Islands of Adventure (12.51 percent decrease)

I will also point out, if Disney averaged turning away 10,000 people a day at Magic Kingdom due to caps, that still puts their drop at over 22%, well ahead of the Universal numbers (and no, I don't think 10,000 is anywhere near correct). So it's entirely possible they are hitting breaking points with pricing, BUT, still raking in record profits, so they don't care/don't think about it/consider it a success.

 

[Disstevefan1]

I agree with your bottom line, but I do think it's worth pointing out their attendance was significantly down in Orlando, much moreso than almost any other FL park since 2019. Taking the theme park numbers, here is the order for attendance drops from 2019:
1.) DAK (48.2 percent decrease)
2.) MK (39.46 percent decrease)
3.) Epcot (37.7 percent decrease)
4.) Seaworld (34.25 percent decrease)
5.)DHS (25.2 percent decrease)
6.)Busch Gardens (23.21 percent decrease)
7.) Universal Orlando (17.72 percent decrease)
8.) Islands of Adventure (12.51 percent decrease)

I will also point out, if Disney averaged turning away 10,000 people a day at Magic Kingdom due to caps, that still puts their drop at over 22%, well ahead of the Universal numbers (and no, I don't think 10,000 is anywhere near correct). So it's entirely possible they are hitting breaking points with pricing, BUT, still raking in record profits, so they don't care/don't think about it/consider it a success.

2019 BC (before COVID) is another world.

The world is different now and will never be the same going forward.

I am not sure if looking at attendance as a measure of success is valid anymore as they have learned to simply raise prices for everything or charge for something that was previously free.

I am wondering if their new metric will be getting the maximum money from the lowest attendance.

Attendance does have value to the guest as it gives an indication of crowd levels, I guess.

 

[crazy4disney]

2019 BC (before COVID) is another world.

The world is different now and will never be the same going forward.

I am not sure if looking at attendance as a measure of success is valid anymore as they have learned to simply raise prices for everything or charge for something that was previously free.

I am wondering if their new metric will be getting the maximum money from the lowest attendance.

Attendance does have value to the guest as it gives an indication of crowd levels, I guess.

in theory hasnt this been the case internally with not only disney but any company... they may not publicly say it altho Chapek has said the silent part out loud... end of day bottom line numbers they care about is $$$$ and net profits Not how many people are walking thru those gates... granted they are in theory correlated but seems lately Disney has been able to generate more with less...

 

[LSLS]

2019 BC (before COVID) is another world.

The world is different now and will never be the same going forward.

I am not sure if looking at attendance as a measure of success is valid anymore as they have learned to simply raise prices for everything or charge for something that was previously free.

I am wondering if their new metric will be getting the maximum money from the lowest attendance.

Attendance does have value to the guest as it gives an indication of crowd levels, I guess.

Somewhat, but a lot of places are getting a lot closer to 2019. 2 of the top 20 in the index were under 10% from their 2019 numbers.

Also, indication of crowd level would only work if things stay equal. As we've seen here, it's not keeping crowd levels down because Disney is not operating the same way as they were when their crowds were 50% higher, they are using less staff and offering less things for free. Hence why spending and profits are up despite attendance being down. I think the question is where is that breaking point where even the people spending a lot more start seeing it as not worth it, or people start spending more time off-site for souvenirs/meals.

 

[Disstevefan1]

end of day bottom line numbers they care about is $$$$ and net profits Not how many people are walking thru those gates...

THIS! AND ITS HAPPENING FOR DISNEY!

And in the long run, for guests that are not priced out and can still visit, it (should?) be a better guest experience all things being equal.

Will the Disneyparks evolve into even more of an exclusive vacation destination?

 

[Disstevefan1]

Somewhat, but a lot of places are getting a lot closer to 2019. 2 of the top 20 in the index were under 10% from their 2019 numbers.

Also, indication of crowd level would only work if things stay equal. As we've seen here, it's not keeping crowd levels down because Disney is not operating the same way as they were when their crowds were 50% higher, they are using less staff and offering less things for free. Hence why spending and profits are up despite attendance being down. I think the question is where is that breaking point where even the people spending a lot more start seeing it as not worth it, or people start spending more time off-site for souvenirs/meals.

I think breaking points are being hit every day, its different for everyone.

I just think for the folks they lose, there are many more that will pay the price.

 

[LSLS]

I think breaking points are being hit every day, its different for everyone.

I just think for the folks they lose, there are many more that will pay the price.

But the data makes me question if that is true. Now, I won't say it outright that they have passed some sort of peak because one year does not make a trend. But we are definitely seeing Disney having more of an issue rebounding in attendance in 2021 than any other Florida park (and significantly more than Universal, and I can make the case the caps aren't the reason. Maybe APs are a big part, I don't know that data at all). If that continues through the 2022 data, I think you have to question if those people are being replaced. And if they aren't, then you are paying close attention to that graph of attendance vs. profit to see where that peak really is. BUT, I think people are completely kidding themselves if they think the price increases/attendance drops will do ANYTHING to make the parks feel less crowded/decrease wait times (not saying you are one of the people claiming that, just pointing it out in context of my other statements).

 

[crazy4disney]

THIS! AND ITS HAPPENING FOR DISNEY!

And in the long run, for guests that are not priced out and can still visit, it (should?) be a better guest experience all things being equal.

Will the Disneyparks evolve into even more of an exclusive vacation destination?

short answer nope... parks are still crazy crowded and they refuse to add appropriate capacity to solve that problem...

 

[John park hopper]

Or staffing

 

[Disstevefan1]

short answer nope... parks are still crazy crowded and they refuse to add appropriate capacity to solve that problem...

You misunderstood my post.

Yes of course it's still crowded, but technically they are making more money with less people entering the parks.

Will there be a time where it becomes so costly that enough people do not choose to show up such that if feels less crowded? I do not know.

 

[crazy4disney]

You misunderstood my post.

Yes of course it's still crowded, but technically they are making more money with less people entering the parks.

Will there be a time where it becomes so costly that enough people do not choose to show up such that if feels less crowded? I do not know.

i understood what you are saying and my answer is still nope lol....

 

[Disstevefan1]

But the data makes me question if that is true. Now, I won't say it outright that they have passed some sort of peak because one year does not make a trend. But we are definitely seeing Disney having more of an issue rebounding in attendance in 2021 than any other Florida park (and significantly more than Universal, and I can make the case the caps aren't the reason. Maybe APs are a big part, I don't know that data at all). If that continues through the 2022 data, I think you have to question if those people are being replaced. And if they aren't, then you are paying close attention to that graph of attendance vs. profit to see where that peak really is. BUT, I think people are completely kidding themselves if they think the price increases/attendance drops will do ANYTHING to make the parks feel less crowded/decrease wait times (not saying you are one of the people claiming that, just pointing it out in context of my other statements).

I think you are still trying to use attendance as a measure?

Is it true per guest spending is way up?

 

[Disstevefan1]

i understood what you are saying and my answer is still nope lol....

We agree it's still crazy crowded. Will it ever be (or feel) less crowded. Probably not.

 

[LSLS]

I think you are still trying to use attendance as a measure?

Is it true per guest spending is way up?

I'm commenting on you saying there is always someone to come in to pay the prices and replace those that hit their breaking point. I think there are questions now if that is the case. We don't know til we see another year or two of data. And I will say it doesn't have to be the case (1-1 replacements) as long as the current average spent multiplied by attendance is still greater than it used to be. BUT, as attendance decreases, and things get more expensive, I question where that peak might be. I'm sure there are people willing to pay $7 for an ice cream bar but are there enough? If 10 people were paying $5 for that bar, are there still 8 willing to pay that $7? Will 7 pay if it goes to $8.50? That's really the question I'm asking. And of course, how does it factor in if people's friends start telling them "They changed the ice cream, it's gross now." Basically, my point was per guest spending only matters as long as the drop in attendance doesn't trend lower than the amount of price increases.