News Zootopia and Moana Blue Sky concepts for Disney's Animal Kingdom

[neo999955]

Sorry for the confusion, earlier in this thread I had delineated the stylistically new dark rides (the ones you mentioned) from classic, traditional dark rides. Some people don’t like the new style, and I get that, but my feeling is that the more classic style of dark rides doesn’t “sell” with this generation. Nemo, Little Mermaid, the new Figment, Pooh - to my mind these were created in a more classic style, without the bells and whistles of something like the Buzz Lightyear ride, the herky jerky hyperkinetic feel of Rat and Runaway Railway, or the amped up, theatrical immersion style of Rise. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that they’re all generally low wait rides.

I am actually hopeful that there could be a traditional dark ride renaissance in the future. I just think it would take a spark of creative brilliance to figure out how to keep the traditional format in a way that captivates people in the 2020’s.

Ahh, sorry, gotcha.

To me the issue is less the mechanics of the ride to the content of the ride. Mermaid, Nemo and Figment are, to me, bad. Rides I never need or want to do. Pooh is cuter and I enjoy it, but wouldn't wait in line for it. Of course, this all from the perspective of an adult.

I do think trackless provides more versatility, but there's room for all and ways to innovate components of any ride regardless of the underlining system and if you create a beautiful ride that captures those who ride it - it'll be a success.

 

[UNCgolf]

Ahh, sorry, gotcha.

To me the issue is less the mechanics of the ride to the content of the ride. Mermaid, Nemo and Figment are, to me, bad. Rides I never need or want to do. Pooh is cuter and I enjoy it, but wouldn't wait in line for it. Of course, this all from the perspective of an adult.

I do think trackless provides more versatility, but there's room for all and ways to innovate components of any ride regardless of the underlining system and if you create a beautiful ride that captures those who ride it - it'll be a success.

I'm not sure Nemo even counts as a classic dark ride, but yes, a big part of the problem is that those are all poorly built/designed attractions -- other than Pooh, which is fine (and generally has a longer wait than the other three).

Frozen Ever After is a classic dark ride too (and not a very good one, IMO) and it gets 60+ minute waits.

Na'vi River Journey also gets long waits, and although people seem to really hate it here, it's been open long enough that the majority of guests know exactly what it is. They're still willing to queue for an hour or more to ride it. I don't think you can point at DAK's lack of attractions as the reason either, considering Kali and Dinosaur don't generally get that kind of line.

 

[DisneyHead123]

Ahh, sorry, gotcha.

To me the issue is less the mechanics of the ride to the content of the ride. Mermaid, Nemo and Figment are, to me, bad. Rides I never need or want to do. Pooh is cuter and I enjoy it, but wouldn't wait in line for it. Of course, this all from the perspective of an adult.

I do think trackless provides more versatility, but there's room for all and ways to innovate components of any ride regardless of the underlining system and if you create a beautiful ride that captures those who ride it - it'll be a success.

Agree… I haven’t been on Navi River Journey yet but from what I’ve heard it’s somewhat more innovative and immersive despite being a pretty traditional dark boat ride. Something similar to that approach with more exciting content could be a contender for modern classic status.

 

[DisneyHead123]

Na'vi River Journey also gets long waits, and although people seem to really hate it here, it's been open long enough that the majority of guests know exactly what it is. They're still willing to queue for an hour or more to ride it. I don't think you can really point at DAK's lack of attractions as the reason either, considering Kali and Dinosaur don't generally get that kind of line.

Forgot about Na’vi, good point. I’ll be curious to see how Tiana turns out and what approach they go with there.

 

[Brer Panther]

You complain about being considered dumb while clearly thinking everyone else is too dumb to realize that you’re again being dishonest. All of the trackless dark rides at Walt Disney World utilize switches. It’s the big gag that they even highlight in Mickey and Minnie’s Runaway Railway. Rise of the Resistance has two different ways upstairs. Even Ratatouille uses switches to place the vehicles in different positions in front of the screens. Stop trying to sound edgy. You’re trying to blame technology for design decisions it does not inherently dictate.

Yes, but Ratatouille still parks the riders in front of a screen for more than half the ride. Runaway Railway parks the riders in front of a screen at one point, too, and most of the rooms are humongous and empty. See also Tokyo's Beauty and the Beast ride, which is about seventy-five percent "dancing" around in gigantic rooms with the animatronics confined to one side. The "Something There" sequence should've been a brief glide-by, not a room for the vehicles to spin around in for ten minutes.

 

[WondersOfLife]

Oh so you want a Tarzan ride with Phil Collins music blasting through the area??

...This would be a lot more fitting for AK, believe it or not. So... Yes....

 

[James Alucobond]

Yes, but Ratatouille still parks the riders in front of a screen for more than half the ride. Runaway Railway parks the riders in front of a screen at one point, too, and most of the rooms are humongous and empty. See also Tokyo's Beauty and the Beast ride, which is about seventy-five percent "dancing" around in gigantic rooms with the animatronics confined to one side. The "Something There" sequence should've been a brief glide-by, not a room for the vehicles to spin around in for ten minutes.

You continue to conflate things that you don't like about the scene design in specific attractions with the ride vehicle / system, which is what you originally decried as played out and ready for the rubbish bin. You didn't say you were tired of the way Disney currently employs trackless technology; you said trackless technology should get the axe, which will obviously get pushback.

 

[No Name]

No, I’m saying DAK is a tropical rainforest that doesn’t pack rides in. The places you label are filled with trees that make DAK look like a forest and not DHS. If we remove the trees or fill courtyards for flat rides, that’s Magic Kingdom. We frequently complain about lack of trees there.

Is Magic Carpets of Aladdin the goal?

I just think 3 rides in a land (and, hopefully, some animal exhibits) is fine. And I certainly don’t need Lion King bumper cars in front of Kilimanjaro Safaris or a Jungle Book tilt-a-whirl next to Kali even if both would fit.

I also object to the claim that Disney is being cheap by keeping all of that horticulture they maintain instead of dropping in flat rides. Haven’t we been complaining about how cheap Dino-Rama is for 2 decades?

This seems like a long attempt to salvage a very simple comment. Even if your personal opinion is that a flat ride in one of those spots would be too harmful to the look of the place, the point is, that’s not why it isn’t being built. It’s not being built for the same reason they tore up some trees to build an amphitheater to get people to stay past dinner, and then when that didn’t work, closed the theater, closed Primeval Whirl, and shortened park hours… all to save on operational costs.

DAK is a park with a whopping 8 rides. It’s been widely considered under-built since day 1, a reputation that continues to this day, and it’s not a creative decision, it’s a financial one.

 

[SplashJacket]

This seems like a long attempt to salvage a very simple comment. Even if your personal opinion is that a flat ride in one of those spots would be too harmful to the look of the place, the point is, that’s not why it isn’t being built. It’s not being built for the same reason they tore up some trees to build an amphitheater to get people to stay past dinner, and then when that didn’t work, closed the theater, closed Primeval Whirl, and shortened park hours… all to save on operational costs.

DAK is a park with a whopping 8 rides. It’s been widely considered under-built since day 1, a reputation that continues to this day, and it’s not a creative decision, it’s a financial one.

A park can not have enough rides and still be better off with fewer attractions. Both can be true at the same time. Sometimes nothing really is better than something. AK ID better without PW, just like Universal Studios would become a better park if they closed Fast & Furious, even without a replacement.

 

[No Name]

A park can not have enough rides and still be better off with fewer attractions. Both can be true at the same time. Sometimes nothing really is better than something. AK ID better without PW, just like Universal Studios would become a better park if they closed Fast & Furious, even without a replacement.

AK is not better with an empty plot of concrete instead of Primeval Whirl. That’s just ridiculous. That’s an opinion that only someone on a website like this would ever utter.

 

[ToTBellHop]

AK is not better with an empty plot of concrete instead of Primeval Whirl. That’s just ridiculous. That’s an opinion that only someone on a website like this would ever utter.

I certainly don’t think you’ve seen me suggest Dinoland should remain as-is. It needs to be replaced and then the park needs a new land with animal exhibits along with rides.

I like that the park is spread out. It certainly has space for expansion without cramming rides in like it’s Fantasyland.

DHS is where I’d like to see rides crammed in because it works for the theming and the park has limited room to expand. Toy Story Land, for example, should have a couple more flat rides. Even better if they are within Slinky Dog’s sweeping turns.

 

[JD80]

Yeah. Rat seems to be pretty reliable.

If I hard to guess ROTR’s issues are more with the doe-see-doe it used to do with the cannons and the drop mechanism?

You ever watch one of those videos where it's basically a mouse trap (the board game)? One thing rolls down a decline, hits a thing that hits another thing that causes another ball to fall that turns on a toaster and whatever? That's RotR. If one thing goes wrong in that whole operation, the ride either stops or goes in to B mode.

That one thing "wrong" can be a safety switch, timing for vehicles to pass through. There are probably zones in the attraction where only one vehicle is allowed to go at a time. If it stops in one area, it mucks everything up.

RotR is was designed to be a too complex mouse trap. It's amazing when it works, but can easily fall apart.

 

[JD80]

Always heard the DL version is more reliable, not sure how true that is.

If it is, it can be any number of things. From branded PLCs, sensor calibration etc.

It could also be vehicle mapping. Ever set up or watch someone set up a Roomba? Same thing happens with these trackless vehicles but obviously more accurate etc.

 

[doctornick]

This seems like a long attempt to salvage a very simple comment. Even if your personal opinion is that a flat ride in one of those spots would be too harmful to the look of the place, the point is, that’s not why it isn’t being built. It’s not being built for the same reason they tore up some trees to build an amphitheater to get people to stay past dinner, and then when that didn’t work, closed the theater, closed Primeval Whirl, and shortened park hours… all to save on operational costs.

DAK is a park with a whopping 8 rides. It’s been widely considered under-built since day 1, a reputation that continues to this day, and it’s not a creative decision, it’s a financial one.

And it is worth noting that if they close the Boneyard - which the concept art suggests - that is actually removing another activity from the land that would reduce park capacity for guests in terms of "Stuff to do". now I know it is not targeted at the demographic of most who post on here, but I cannot speak enough at how excellent the Boneyard is for the type of attraction it is; it's simply fantastic execution of that kind of "kid's theme park playground".

Now, I don't suggest that Disney "needs" to replace it with a similar thing - though ironically, I feel it could potentially work just fine if kept and slightly rethemed to an archeology dig versus a paleontology one - but I do think it is important to note that it is one then one fewer thing for younger children to do in the park. It would be nice to recognize that loss of capacity as well.

Admittedly, if they add a worthwhile animal trail, that would be a good replacement in my mind. Though I still would have the "why not both?" question.

 

[No Name]

I certainly don’t think you’ve seen me suggest Dinoland should remain as-is.

No I didn’t mean to imply you would also think that.

 

[Brer Oswald]

What ride system would you want that doesn't suck and isn't too limiting?

Anything with a track. It’s more reliable and allows for simple elevation changes.

I think there’s a time and place for trackless. Particularly if you want to create scenes that are “non linear” in nature. But for the attractions with mostly linear ride paths, a track system would probably be the best bet.

 

[Brer Oswald]

It was implied or presumed that the ride would be a Mystic Manor type which is why I posed the question.

Implied by whom? Fans?

 

[WaltWiz1901]

Instead, we get gigantic empty rooms for the vehicles to crawl around in and parking the riders in front of a giant screen for half the ride.

Yes, but Ratatouille still parks the riders in front of a screen for more than half the ride. Runaway Railway parks the riders in front of a screen at one point, too, and most of the rooms are humongous and empty.

(the extremely long lines for Toy Story Mania and Peter Pan say otherwise)

Find it funny how you criticized trackless rides for parking riders in front of a screen (which, as previously mentioned, is not at all to blame on the technology itself, but rather the designers of the scenery it's accompanying)...yet used the wait times for another ride which also parks riders in front of screens (interactive element notwithstanding) as proof that tracked dark rides aren't unpopular with park-goers

See also Tokyo's Beauty and the Beast ride, which is about seventy-five percent "dancing" around in gigantic rooms with the animatronics confined to one side. The "Something There" sequence should've been a brief glide-by, not a room for the vehicles to spin around in for ten minutes.

Admittedly, while the ride itself looks infinitely better than any of the three trackless dark rides in WDW, that particular scene does drag it down. Even with the desire to make it different from the other trackless dark ride in TDL!Fantasyland not too far away, there's a few things that could've been executed better than they actually were.

I don't think the tech itself is too limiting; I just think they haven't been imaginative enough in utilizing the positives of the tech over the downsides. They too often fall back on having at least one giant, mostly empty room so the vehicles can move around each other.

There are things the trackless tech allows that can't be done with an omnimover, and some which probably couldn't be done with a non-omnimover tracked ride, but they shouldn't just automatically default to trackless either. It's not as though omnimovers or other tracked rides are obsolete and worthless just because trackless tech exists.

I think there’s a time and place for trackless. Particularly if you want to create scenes that are “non linear” in nature. But for the attractions with mostly linear ride paths, a track system would probably be the best bet.

Took the words clean out of my mouth!

I think LPS can be used in an effective manner (see Hunny Hunt and Mystic Manor for two great examples of such), but there's still a place for Omnimovers and traditional busbar rides, too.

 

[Kev1982]

I think the system used doesn’t matter. Its what’s around it.