Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

[JMcMahonEsq]

At this point, they really should just do a Universal express pass system and be done with it...

I don't think the perceived sale value is there for that. The equivalent pricing would be huge, and likely a barrier to purchasing for many people/families.

Now you get to purchase on a daily basis, or even a ride basis, giving customers alot more flexibility in what they spend their money on, as opposed to having to make a single UEP type purchase for a day, which is going to be set at a price significantly higher likely then you LL/G+ costs now.

Also, similar to micro transactional type pricing, you get alot more customers buying into the product, and over time can even get more sales than with a single lump sump purchase. You get both the people who couldn't afford the huge cost of UEP, but will buy a day or two. AND you will get people who buy it for one day, then then next day, and then the LL's an by day 4-5 say screw it we have already paid some much might as well get it for the next day too, and you could eventually get over a week plus trip more in spending than the simple UEP cost might have been.

 

[Indy_UK]

At this point, they really should just do a Universal express pass system and be done with it...

They're ticking system is an absolute mess.

Even out the ticket pricing across all 4 parks so that they are the same price (which should spur Disney to expand AK and HS more) Add a $50 hopper option

Then just a $75-$100 LL option for those who want to pay it.

Its all way to confusing

 

[Andrew C]

and likely a barrier to purchasing for many people/families.

That is basically my point.

 

[Andrew C]

They're ticking system is an absolute mess.

Express Pass seems pretty simple to me...

 

[Indy_UK]

Express Pass seems pretty simple to me...

Individually yes but for those who aren't clued up it must be a mind field to turn up to Disney and see the colossal chart of park tickets and constant add-ons.

 

[HauntedPirate]

Individually yes but for those who aren't clued up it must be a mind field to turn up to Disney and see the colossal chart of park tickets and constant add-ons.

No no, people WANT that. The resident Diznee-iz-a-biznezz genius around here said so.

 

[larryz]

Third, why is it unfortunate that WDW has found something people want to buy, and are selling it at a price that people think has value?

Because (and you know this) it flies in the face of decades of good will developed by Disney when they offered all of what they're now charging for to customers without additional charge.

Sorry, but current management's customer value extraction paradigm actually deprogrammed my very effective Disney brainwashing stemming from early childhood television exposure in the 1950's thru pleasant memories associated with their extensive videos, movies and park/resort visits in the 1990's and early Aughts... The 20-teens accelerated the decline as they created FP, then shifted from FP to FP+, then Genie and his plus, then LLs and ILLs and who-knows-what now and into the future.

Disney has clearly moved beyond me. I'm standing on the platform waving "Bye-bye!"

When planning a Disney vacation becomes just as hard as work -- if not harder -- I'll stay at work, thank you. At least I get paid for that.

 

[lentesta]

This is silly. First LL has development costs, infrastructure, implementation costs, maintenance, hosting costs., ect., all of which cost/costs the company money.

If I recall correctly, domestic implementation costs were $50MM. Ongoing domestic operational costs are ~$25MM.

Domestic revenue is probably north of $700MM/year.

 

[HauntedPirate]

Because (and you know this) it flies in the face of decades of good will developed by Disney when they offered all of what they're now charging for to customers without additional charge.

Sorry, but current management's customer value extraction paradigm actually deprogrammed my very effective Disney brainwashing stemming from early childhood television exposure in the 1950's thru pleasant memories associated with their extensive videos, movies and park/resort visits in the 1990's and early Aughts... The 20-teens accelerated the decline as they created FP, then shifted from FP to FP+, then Genie and his plus, then LLs and ILLs and who-knows-what now and into the future.

Disney has clearly moved beyond me. I'm standing on the platform waving "Bye-bye!"

When planning a Disney vacation becomes just as hard as work -- if not harder -- I'll stay at work, thank you. At least I get paid for that.

If I recall correctly, domestic implementation costs were $50MM. Ongoing domestic operational costs are ~$25MM.

Domestic revenue is probably north of $700MM/year.

Quoting both for posterity.

 

[JD80]

Because (and you know this) it flies in the face of decades of good will developed by Disney when they offered all of what they're now charging for to customers without additional charge.

Sorry, but current management's customer value extraction paradigm actually deprogrammed my very effective Disney brainwashing stemming from early childhood television exposure in the 1950's thru pleasant memories associated with their extensive videos, movies and park/resort visits in the 1990's and early Aughts... The 20-teens accelerated the decline as they created FP, then shifted from FP to FP+, then Genie and his plus, then LLs and ILLs and who-knows-what now and into the future.

Disney has clearly moved beyond me. I'm standing on the platform waving "Bye-bye!"

When planning a Disney vacation becomes just as hard as work -- if not harder -- I'll stay at work, thank you. At least I get paid for that.

Disney World, not Disney as a whole. Other Disney parks offered paid line skipping long before G+.

 

[Jrb1979]

Disney World, not Disney as a whole. Other Disney parks offered paid line skipping long before G+.

That part has bothered me as it's standard now for almost all parks. What's brothered me is charging for a crappy system. Simplify it and make it easy to use. None of this pre-booking return time nonsense.

 

[Ayla]

Disney World, not Disney as a whole. Other Disney parks offered paid line skipping long before G+.

The topic of the thread is Disney World. There is no need to be specific in which location he's referencing.

 

[JMcMahonEsq]

If I recall correctly, domestic implementation costs were $50MM. Ongoing domestic operational costs are ~$25MM.

Domestic revenue is probably north of $700MM/year.

Oh I don't doubt that the product is profitable, i was just commenting that it is absurd to say it doesn't cost anything.

Thought I would be surprised (and i have no numbers or information contrary to yours so not saying your wrong) that the total R&D and implementation cost would only be 2X of yearly operational costs.

 

[JMcMahonEsq]

At this point, they really should just do a Universal express pass system and be done with it...

What do you think the price point ends up being for such a system? My understanding from rumors (having never visited or looked into Universal) is that their express pass system is basically a single price for the day, and operates like a simple line skip. Meaning whenever you want to go to that ride, you go through a separate entrance and cut the existing line, no return times, no reserving a time, ect. I also don't know how limited the sales of the pass is based on percentage of total visitors to the park on a given day. To have such flexibility for WDW I have to imagine the pricing would be significant, both to get the revenue that your missing from the smaller daily spends that your get from individual G+/LL type purchases AND to keep the number of such passes given out smaller so that they have actual value, as opposed to just everyone buying them and now it just becomes the norm and you get 2 stand by lines.

 

[Andrew C]

What do you think the price point ends up being for such a system?

Really high, just like it is really high at Universal (more than the regular ticket in many cases). You would see a lot less people use this than the current system.

My understanding from rumors (having never visited or looked into Universal) is that their express pass system is basically a single price for the day, and operates like a simple line skip. Meaning whenever you want to go to that ride, you go through a separate entrance and cut the existing line, no return times, no reserving a time, ect.

Exactly. Simplify it.

 

[KDM31091]

After rise on the same ILL rides? Oh Jesus.

They really don't think there's a ceiling is there? Attendance is soft isn't it?

It has been soft. Apparently they will keep raising it until they can’t get away il

This is silly. First LL has development costs, infrastructure, implementation costs, maintenance, hosting costs., ect., all of which cost/costs the company money.

Second its not greed, its a busienss, the company is supposed to make money. It has a product that people want. Contrary to some on these message boards, people do NOT want to go back in time over 25 years ago to when there were no fast passes.

Third, why is it unfortunate that WDW has found something people want to buy, and are selling it at a price that people think has value? If you don't like it, that's fine don't buy it. But on the limited amount of time I can get away from work, and get my family on a vacation, we are not going to waste time standing around in lines. We, and it appears enough other customers, are willing to pay additional amounts to skip past lines. But i know some people (mostly without kids) who don't mind going to the parks, and just casually walking from drink spot to snack stand, to show, and will just hop on whatever rides they want, that have good wait times. They don't want/value the same things I do, and i like that Disney has different pricing features so that we both get what we want.

The infrastructure was already in place well before they started charging for it.

Yes, everyone values different things and if someone wants to pay the money, that’s fine with me, but my argument is no one should have to. This should just be abolished. One standby line moves much much faster than when you have these nonsense add on queues. WDW attractions are generally very efficient and LL destroys that.

 

[bmr1591]

Don't worry, they will do both.

Unfortunately, I know.

 

[ChrisRobin124]

First who actually turns up to WDW without tickets already being purchased? WDW isn't some roadside park where people spur of the moment just decide to stop in and think about buying a ticket on a random Saturday morning.

Second, if you really can't understand online ordering of different options with differing pricing, its time to take your AARP card and head off to play some canasta or something. We aren't talking multivariable calculus here.

And third, do you see days where there are tons of LL's not being bought? When you are the back, assuming your still going and not just complaining on a MB about a place you don't go to, do you see LL lines that are empty bc people aren't buying and using them? It's not me saying so, is the consumer actually buying the product that shows people want it, or find value in it.

I go frequently, spend quite a bit, buy LL multi and single. AND have an AARP card and play canasta!! So what's your point?

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

Thought I would be surprised (and i have no numbers or information contrary to yours so not saying your wrong) that the total R&D and implementation cost would only be 2X of yearly operational costs.

Really though? It's a pretty crappy system that was built off the backbones of the existing IT infrastructure and the existing FP+ system, which is part of the reason why it is so buggy. It's not like they developed it from the ground up. Maxpass already existed at Disneyland and this was just a paid version of that.

 

[Purduevian]

Take this for what it's worth.

I'm told that if you look at the supply/demand curve for LL, there's tons of room for Disney to increase prices when crowds are above average.

That is, there are still more people willing to throw more money at waiting less in line.

I don't think they'll do it, but it would not surprise me if the math showed revenue maxxed out at around $75 per person per day during the winter holidays.

I'm not going to lie... I would probably pay ~$50 per person at magic kingdom or hopper for the current form of G+. I tend to go to Disney for a maximum of 4 days. My upcoming trip is just 2 park days for which I'm paying $163.32 per day (base) or $208.58 per day (if we upgrade to a hopper) per person, just to get in the gate.

I'm also a power user of G+ and have yet to get any less than 7 LLs in a day.

$75 is probably too much for me, but I still think at $50 per person per day is probably fair