Lensman
Well-Known Member
Hey, no picking on my beloved OKW! (or as I like to call it, the Disney Vacation Club at Walt Disney World Resort)
Last edited:
-
Welcome to the WDWMAGIC.COM Forums!
Please take a look around, and feel free to sign up and join the community.
News Upscale Walt Disney World experiences packaged under the new 'Crown Collection by Disney'
- Thread starter wdwmagic
- Start date
Most assuredly NOT picking on it.
I was just surprised that the resales there were lower than the rest of WDW resorts. We've stayed there a few times, and loved it.The moving of one evening of EMH to the morning is a rumor at this point - not a fact.
Just wanted to make that clear.
Or put it another way 50% reduction in evening EMHs are a rumor at this point.
eliza61nyc
Well-Known Member
???
They are targeting the group that brings them less Revenue. Sorry if I have a business, yes I'm giving the perks to my BEST customers. I'm giving the extras to those who bring me more revenue. I have no problem with that. My company, you buy direct you get the tech support, the analytical support. You buy through a 3rd party you get nothing but the product.
You want the cheaper price, fine, I totally understand but hey I have no problem with them discouraging it.
Sorry, but Disney's restrictions on some resold points but not others smacks of restraint of trade to me... looks like they've moved the goalposts in a blatant attempt to crush the resale market. In my opinion, resold points should carry the same perks granted to the original buyer... it's not like they're resetting the clock on the "ownership" period. They've already received full price on those points from the original buyers -- they have (or should have) figured the lifetime cost of those perks when they first sold them.
eliza61nyc
Well-Known Member
Hey @larryz
Interesting points (lol excuse the pun). They are definitely moving the goal post but not sure I agree with the restraint of trade. I think saying that this will in some way restrict a resale operators ability to do business might be a stretch. If I remember correctly. Lord knows it's been eons since I read my contract but doesn't Disney retain all rights to revoke perks at any time??
We're going to have to agree to disagree on this one. They started adding restrictions on resale buyers over 8 years ago, and that doesn't seem to have hurt resales at all. As a matter of fact, they are actually much higher now than even a few years ago - even with the new restrictions. The only place this might hurt resales is for Riviera resale buyers, but since there aren't any, we have no idea what the effect will be. If a resale buyer at Riviera doesn't do their due diligence and research the purchase, well, I personally have no pity for them. If the resale price is even just $100/point, a 200 point contract will still cost $20,000 - and if someone blindly spends $20,000 without knowing exactly what they are getting, well, then they have more money than brains.
I've been told by DVC that the new restriction is due to current owner complaints about not being able to book at the 7 month window, and certainly has nothing to do with "crushing" the resale market. Even resale buyers are spending money on park tickets, food, and merch, even if the only place they can stay at is Riviera. I completely agree with Disney on this, as there existed the possibility of hundreds or even thousands of resale buyers in the years ahead making it even harder for all of us to book at 7 months.
Sure, they can revoke perks. But why discriminate against a class of owners who bought resale compared to original owners who still retain those perks?
Maybe it isn't "intended" to crush resale at Riviera, but I can tell you from my own perception, if I was ever inclined to buy resale points (anywhere!), I sure as heck would decide against it now.
Naplesgolfer
Well-Known Member
I am not sure what side I come down on this issue. I will never be privy to Disney survey results and what their internal discussions are. But I do wonder with buyers today goggling everything if people will find out about the resale complaints that will come in subsequent years from Riviera sellers and buyers. This could adversely effect sales at Reflections and future resorts. I just can't see the Riviera restrictions being good for them going forward. Seems short sighted.
ImperfectPixie
Well-Known Member
Honestly, a lot of decisions lately seem short-sighted.
I don't know the reasoning behind the original restrictions in 2011, and the additional restrictions added in 2016, but again, the price of resales has gone up quite a bit since the restrictions were added in 2016, so it obviously had no effect at all. People buying resale seem to be only interested in one thing - buying in at a lower price, and don't really care that much about the perks that can all go away for all of us.
Any current resale buyer - since there are no Riviera sales, can purchase 75 direct points to get all the perks, and stay at any of the original 14 resorts.
eliza61nyc
Well-Known Member
To encourage folks to buy direct. no other reason. I don't see it as discrimination at all, it's no different imo then a hotel saying if you book directly with us, we'll give you free breakfast but if you use hotel.com or booking.com you get nothing. they control the keys to the castle so to speak, of course they are going to tip the odds to favor themselves.
VaderTron
Well-Known Member
That is quite an assumption.
1. I am one of many who would have bought resale. I received a small inheritance from my grandfather when he died. But now instead of buying DVC like I was planning for years, I have decided to leave that money in the bank/investiments. I know I'm not the only one to think twice, and it's only going to get worse for those who are not forward thinking and must "see what happens for themselves" in regards to Riviera and subsequent resorts that are barred from resale owners (current buyers and moving forward). The fallout is going to be big. Sadly, I think DVC owners that want to sell due to financial hardship are the ones that will hurt the most, not Disney. But, that's what happens. The little guy pays the price while the millionaires take an extra small country's worth of income as a bonus.
2. The price of resales is influenced by a number of factors that have nothing to do with proving the strain on sales or lack there of the added restrictions may have engendered. The biggest factor in price increases once again has to do with Disney. They have raised the bar on the price point they are willing to exercise their right of first refusal and buy back contracts. Summer of 2015 is an excellent example. Disney's aggressive reaction to large numbers of Boardwalk contracts being resold at reasonable prices drove the price up significantly. Disney was buying back contracts in the high $90's per point range. That was already higher than the average resale price at the time. Instantly the price of resales jumped to over $100 a point for Boardwalk due to Disney's insane buyback campaign. And this is just one example at one resort, during one summer in recent years. Another was Old Key West in spring of 2016. Disney aggressively tried to buy back as many of the contracts as they could. Then they turned around and bumped the years up by 15 on the contract expiration and sold them directly at top dollar making a sizable profit on a contract that they already sold at full price at least once. Overall the historical data of ROFR buyback price shows continued attacks on the prices of resales. In June 2017 the average ROFR price was around $90 a point. It then jumped to $105 per point by August 2017. Resale prices rose to compensate at around $110-113 a point. As they stayed high Disney lowered their buyback numbers for several months indicating they were content with the price-hike. As soon as the average price started to feather down from January 2018-March 2018 Disney once again raised their ROFR prices to a new high of $115 a point Summer of 2018, higher than the average $112 per point that resales were listed at.
Really, as I and others have been stating for some time, Disney has been working tirelessly for the past several years at every turn to scrape up every dollar they can and try to infuriate the "lower class" Disneyphile in hopes they will go away. Meanwhile, they are attempting to entice the "upper classes" to come experience the 'luxury' of Disney believing their excess of money will be more freely spent during their stay. The truth is, Disney has not shown a willingness to pay employees enough to give a true luxury experience. In recent years as prices have gone up I have encountered increasing numbers of ho-hum cast members that wear their dissatisfaction on their sleeves. I have seen more trash and dirt; more visible wear and tear on rides, scenery, structures, and finishes, and less than luxurious experiences with deluxe prices. You think a guest with a six figure income wants to pay $125 per person for a party that serves soft-serve ice cream and popcorn as their snacks? These people have catered hors' devours at their children's birthday party! What are you thinking??!
It's just sad to watch...even Abigail Disney is calling out the abhorrent greed of her great uncle's company.
Last edited:
Lensman
Well-Known Member
I do agree that the fact that resale prices have gone up doesn't prove that the erosion of perks hasn't affected resale prices. That said, I don't think that the erosion of perks has affected resale prices because the savings of buying resale are still great and the perk changes are an annoyance but until the most recent change, haven't affected the actual usage of your points.
My main reason for quoting your post, though, is to ask two things:
1. Under your assumption that Disney props up the resale price market through ROFR, how is this consistent with the theory that Disney was trying to lower resale prices through their recent policy change about using resale points at future resorts?
2. Do you really think Disney is trying to manipulate the resale price market for their timeshare resorts? Or are they just buying point inventory at good prices and selling it to fill requests from current members? Or it could even be that they know the ROFR price at which they have positive cost-of-carry and can make enough money from unsold inventory by selling the rooms for cash to cover their opportunity cost of capital.
I was reading about that in the news. Is there a thread for us to discuss it or do we need to have an off-topic discussion?