News Reflections – A Disney Lakeside Lodge (Project 89 - Development near Fort Wilderness)

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
They picked up roughly double as many points last year for sold out resorts via ROFR/foreclosure/surrender/etc as they actually sold. I think they’re just overloaded. And I think specifically raising OKW/SSR/AKV/BRV up to/past $200 halted sales on them FAR more than they planned.

I haven’t been tracking what’s happening with foreclosures this year so far, but in the 2009-10 suspension of ROFR, another major driver was that foreclosures increased beyond what they could sell.
This is the one thing that interested me that I don’t really follow…but I know you do.

So maybe you could explain what kind of temporary insanity would have someone buy a 50% used contract for 4x it’s original price?

It’s not a Victorian mansion…it’s straight depreciation 🤓
 

CastAStone

5th gate? Just build a new resort Bob.
Premium Member
This is the one thing that interested me that I don’t really follow…but I know you do.

So maybe you could explain what kind of temporary insanity would have someone buy a 50% used contract for 4x it’s original price?

It’s not a Victorian mansion…it’s straight depreciation 🤓
I can get a gold* annual pass instead of a platinum and save $400 so it’s like that extra $20,000 pays for itself? Also it gives me the right to be disappointed that I didn’t get into moonlight magic three times a year.

*I know they’re not called that anymore but I can’t remember the new names and which one is better than what and neither can any of you.
 

CastAStone

5th gate? Just build a new resort Bob.
Premium Member
This is the one thing that interested me that I don’t really follow…but I know you do.

So maybe you could explain what kind of temporary insanity would have someone buy a 50% used contract for 4x it’s original price?

It’s not a Victorian mansion…it’s straight depreciation 🤓
The actual answer is that as long as Disney raises hotel rates above the rate of inflation, the underlying value of the contract in nominal dollars increases. Plus they added 15 years to OKW. And every year you use, really, you’re using the last year of the contract, in terms of valuing it. And that last year‘s value was already collapsed greatly due to inflation/cost of capital/time value of money to begin with. So you’d expect a direct Old Key West contract to sell for substantially more (in nominal dollars) than when it was new.

Not $200 freaking dollars a point, but, you know, some increase.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
The actual answer is that as long as Disney raises hotel rates above the rate of inflation, the underlying value of the contract in nominal dollars increases. Plus they added 15 years to OKW. And every year you use, really, you’re using the last year of the contract, in terms of valuing it. And that last year‘s value was already collapsed greatly due to inflation/cost of capital/time value of money to begin with. So you’d expect a direct Old Key West contract to sell for substantially more (in nominal dollars) than when it was new.

Not $200 freaking dollars a point, but, you know, some increase.
Excellent…

Especially where they flubbed it
 

nickys

Premium Member
This is the one thing that interested me that I don’t really follow…but I know you do.

So maybe you could explain what kind of temporary insanity would have someone buy a 50% used contract for 4x it’s original price?

It’s not a Victorian mansion…it’s straight depreciation 🤓
And because some buyers don’t know any different. Things never change. We bought in 2010, did a tour at SSR to see the Bay Lake Tower model rooms, made a decision there and then. We had no idea there was a resale market.

There are probably more clued-up buyers now than back then, but they’re not the target audience of those DVC booths in the parks and resorts. It works!
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
And because some buyers don’t know any different. Things never change. We bought in 2010, did a tour at SSR to see the Bay Lake Tower model rooms, made a decision there and then. We had no idea there was a resale market.

There are probably more clued-up buyers now than back then, but they’re not the target audience of those DVC booths in the parks and resorts. It works!
Obviously initial property sales are the goals…

But then they started this bizarre practice of gobbling up old points to price fix their own market

They could be faced with millions of unused points for quite awhile if the LONG NEEDED economic downturn takes hold.

Good. American companies love to preach “free market” on tv…and spend 99% of their time price gouging and crying for help to fix prices behind the scenes.
 

HauntedPirate

Park nostalgist
Premium Member
I think they’re just overloaded. And I think specifically raising OKW/SSR/AKV/BRV up to/past $200 halted sales on them FAR more than they planned.

"Shocking!" - No one. Ever. The missteps within the company have infected DVD as well. Current price points are beyond ridiculous. The Hyatt designs at DVC prices are turning people off, I wonder why?
 

Bocabear

Well-Known Member
"Shocking!" - No one. Ever. The missteps within the company have infected DVD as well. Current price points are beyond ridiculous. The Hyatt designs at DVC prices are turning people off, I wonder why?
Hyatt? I would say upper mid-level Marriott...sadly. The Riviera, while a nice hotel, was completely lacking the Disney Difference...and by that I do not mean "Characters"...It just lacked any sort of special... It was any nice hotel USA. Completely off-brand to my eye. I am still baffled at the idea of abandoning the Disney look and curated style for a chain hotel look... Baffling.
 

Disstevefan1

Well-Known Member
DVCmission.jpg
 

CastAStone

5th gate? Just build a new resort Bob.
Premium Member
Hyatt? I would say upper mid-level Marriott...sadly. The Riviera, while a nice hotel, was completely lacking the Disney Difference...and by that I do not mean "Characters"...It just lacked any sort of special... It was any nice hotel USA. Completely off-brand to my eye. I am still baffled at the idea of abandoning the Disney look and curated style for a chain hotel look... Baffling.
Riviera is Four Seasons level look and feel. Like every Disney Deluxe resort, the service level is Hilton Garden Inn. But the rooms, while styleless, are very nice, and fancy.
 

fgmnt

Well-Known Member
I will say that my family has held BCV for 20 years and there was an attempt at the upsell to a new Riviera contract a year ago, but the money does not make any sense at all like it did 20 years ago. And with the nature of timeshare sales, if you cant further hook in the people you already have, how well are you doing at bringing in new people?
 

Bocabear

Well-Known Member
The interior was nice...I would not go any farther then that. yes it was nicer than a Comfort Inn, or Holiday Inn... No it was not Four Seasons or Waldorf Astoria nice... the service level was as noted... Marriott Courtyard/ Hilton Garden Inn level. I did not find it "fancy"...I guess that is taste subjective, but it was nice... the Lobby etc felt soulless and disconnected. Poorly designed on the whole. We would never stay there again...
 

Disone

Well-Known Member
Riviera is Four Seasons level look and feel. Like every Disney Deluxe resort, the service level is Hilton Garden Inn. But the rooms, while styleless, are very nice, and fancy.
I cannot agree with this statement. IMO The four seasons Orlando is notably elevated several notches above what the Riviera is. While I don't know the time and place that the four seasons is trying to portray but as soon as you step in the lobby you feel like you've left Florida. The grounds are immaculate. The pools are stunning and the rooms completely out class Disney.

For me personally, the Riviera is more akin to a Hyatt, or a nice Marriott. I can absolutely agree on the second part. Very Hilton garden inn on a service level.
 

Naplesgolfer

Well-Known Member
Riviera is Four Seasons level look and feel. Like every Disney Deluxe resort, the service level is Hilton Garden Inn. But the rooms, while styleless, are very nice, and fancy.
The rooms are very nice and large. But the common area's and the facade are mid level Marriott and too small. It is foolish and sad that Disney will never build a Wilderness lodge or Animal Kingdom lodge again. They no longer know what the Disney difference is or care.
 

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