News Disney Lakeshore Lodge (Project 89 - Development near Fort Wilderness)

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Wow. This akes DVC seem like a borderline failure or only a marginal success and contradicts why they continue building more. Also, only half of the Riviera's points are sold??? Dang how hard is it going to be to get a reservation when all of them are sold? It's already impossible as it is.

It’s not a failure…it’s just strayed from the original point. It was never to “make money” off the points…far from it.

And riviera is EXACTLY what they didn’t want to get into. A jazzed up Hyatt that looks like Miami or Central Park in a concrete shell slapped into the caribbean beach 1988 Moto lodges.

But I’m not too opinionated

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Disney's All-Star Riviera Resort, a Disney Vacation Club property.

I like “faux Parisian fortress of solitude”

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Remember, that was conceived of as a value oriented DVC that pivoted to much higher per point cost property.

And it shows.

Value oriented in reference to mediocre amenities?

Because the overpriced points and whack point chart didn’t get in line with “value”

But it will be better once they build that Canal to the back of the new Brazil pavilion…if desantis oks their inspections

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I'm not a DVC owner nor will I ever be able to afford it. I really only wish they would expand the Fort Wilderness resort with more camping and maybe a reimagining of the cabin concept (a two story quadriplex like structure?). Put in more dining and return the recreation trails between WL and FW. And bring back the resort launches!!!

Call me old fashioned but, why take away the peace and quiet with too many people being shoved in. They can make up the profit elsewhere on property.

I hear that campground is right near most crowded family vacation spot in the western world…but that report is unverified

 

[JoeCamel]

Please don't insult Lake Superior.

Do you follow that Twitter? Quite salty for a freshwater body......

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

That’s what I was getting at. I bet there are plenty of Resale owners like me who would buy a direct contract if the stupidly high 150 requirement for the Blue membership benefit card wasn’t there. Considering that previously it has been as low as 25 points, I think they need to start leaning to this mindset again.

Also, it seems that maybe the resale restrictions on new resorts really does have a negative effect although direct guides seem to not even be mentioning it on new sales

It’s been awhile…so forgive me…

Why do they want to give the blue card for one night in a 1 bedroom?

 

[Indy_UK]

It’s been awhile…so forgive me…

Why do they want to give the blue card for one night in a 1 bedroom?

At the end of the day, points sold are still points sold even in smaller contracts. You would think they would try and shift the contracts as easily as possible and reducing the entry point to blue card benefits would surely get interest?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

At the end of the day, points sold are still points sold even in smaller contracts. You would think they would try and shift the contracts as easily as possible and reducing the entry point to blue card benefits would surely get interest?

If it’s a tiny add on to an existing member…it actually adds little to their coffers. Not in their interest

 

[HauntedPirate]

At the end of the day, points sold are still points sold even in smaller contracts. You would think they would try and shift the contracts as easily as possible and reducing the entry point to blue card benefits would surely get interest?

Sadly, they don't want 'easy', they want maximum revenue. Which is why their lack of exercising ROFR lately is puzzling when prices are falling by the day, it seems. Pick up points on the cheap and sell for double what they paid for them? Not sure what the play is with that.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Sadly, they don't want 'easy', they want maximum revenue. Which is why their lack of exercising ROFR lately is puzzling when prices are falling by the day, it seems. Pick up points on the cheap and sell for double what they paid for them? Not sure what the play is with that.

If they’re not using it…that means the usage levels are WAY down.

What they don’t want are empty rooms/points not being “maximized”…that does absolutely nothing for them

 

[Disone]

It’s not a failure…it’s just strayed from the original point. It was never to “make money” off the points…far from it.

And riviera is EXACTLY what they didn’t want to get into. A jazzed up Hyatt that looks like Miami or Central Park in a concert shell slapped into the caribbean beach 1988 Moto lodges.

But I’m not too opinionated

It's not a jazzed up Hyatt. It's just Hyatt.

 

[Ayla]

Do you follow that Twitter? Quite salty for a freshwater body......

Yes and she's a delight.

 

[CastAStone]

Sadly, they don't want 'easy', they want maximum revenue. Which is why their lack of exercising ROFR lately is puzzling when prices are falling by the day, it seems. Pick up points on the cheap and sell for double what they paid for them? Not sure what the play is with that.

They picked up roughly double as many points last year for sold out resorts via ROFR/foreclosure/surrender/etc as they actually sold. I think they’re just overloaded. And I think specifically raising OKW/SSR/AKV/BRV up to/past $200 halted sales on them FAR more than they planned.

I haven’t been tracking what’s happening with foreclosures this year so far, but in the 2009-10 suspension of ROFR, another major driver was that foreclosures increased beyond what they could sell.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

It's not a jazzed up Hyatt. It's just Hyatt.

It’s a very nice Hyatt…At least on the inside

 

[Disone]

It’s a very nice Hyatt…At least on the inside

Hyatt's are nice! We're not talking Hyatt place here. But we're also not talking Hyatt Regency.

I miss when Disney used to theme resorts. More than just hanging some pictures in the wall.

If the Yacht Club lobby refurbishment was done today it would look like the Hyatt with some pictures of yachts on some of the walls. Fortunately Today, go in there and it looks nautical in nature. It's themed!

But look at the outer lodge buildings at the Grand Floridian. I'm not sure that they say Victorian. I don't hate them except for I don't find them to be themed. They look..... Hyatt.

I am still concerned about the Grand Floridian main building lobby.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

They picked up roughly double as many points last year for sold out resorts via ROFR/foreclosure/surrender/etc as they actually sold. I think they’re just overloaded. And I think specifically raising OKW/SSR/AKV/BRV up to/past $200 halted sales on them FAR more than they planned.

I haven’t been tracking what’s happening with foreclosures this year so far, but in the 2009-10 suspension of ROFR, another major driver was that foreclosures increased beyond what they could sell.

This is the one thing that interested me that I don’t really follow…but I know you do.

So maybe you could explain what kind of temporary insanity would have someone buy a 50% used contract for 4x it’s original price?

It’s not a Victorian mansion…it’s straight depreciation

 

[CastAStone]

This is the one thing that interested me that I don’t really follow…but I know you do.

So maybe you could explain what kind of temporary insanity would have someone buy a 50% used contract for 4x it’s original price?

It’s not a Victorian mansion…it’s straight depreciation

I can get a gold* annual pass instead of a platinum and save $400 so it’s like that extra $20,000 pays for itself? Also it gives me the right to be disappointed that I didn’t get into moonlight magic three times a year.

*I know they’re not called that anymore but I can’t remember the new names and which one is better than what and neither can any of you.

 

[CastAStone]

This is the one thing that interested me that I don’t really follow…but I know you do.

So maybe you could explain what kind of temporary insanity would have someone buy a 50% used contract for 4x it’s original price?

It’s not a Victorian mansion…it’s straight depreciation

The actual answer is that as long as Disney raises hotel rates above the rate of inflation, the underlying value of the contract in nominal dollars increases. Plus they added 15 years to OKW. And every year you use, really, you’re using the last year of the contract, in terms of valuing it. And that last year‘s value was already collapsed greatly due to inflation/cost of capital/time value of money to begin with. So you’d expect a direct Old Key West contract to sell for substantially more (in nominal dollars) than when it was new.

Not $200 freaking dollars a point, but, you know, some increase.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

The actual answer is that as long as Disney raises hotel rates above the rate of inflation, the underlying value of the contract in nominal dollars increases. Plus they added 15 years to OKW. And every year you use, really, you’re using the last year of the contract, in terms of valuing it. And that last year‘s value was already collapsed greatly due to inflation/cost of capital/time value of money to begin with. So you’d expect a direct Old Key West contract to sell for substantially more (in nominal dollars) than when it was new.

Not $200 freaking dollars a point, but, you know, some increase.

Excellent…

Especially where they flubbed it

 

[nickys]

This is the one thing that interested me that I don’t really follow…but I know you do.

So maybe you could explain what kind of temporary insanity would have someone buy a 50% used contract for 4x it’s original price?

It’s not a Victorian mansion…it’s straight depreciation

And because some buyers don’t know any different. Things never change. We bought in 2010, did a tour at SSR to see the Bay Lake Tower model rooms, made a decision there and then. We had no idea there was a resale market.

There are probably more clued-up buyers now than back then, but they’re not the target audience of those DVC booths in the parks and resorts. It works!