News Big changes coming to EPCOT's Future World?

Andrew25

Well-Known Member
You can see some of the TV commercials here (click on the video link for a playlist)



Basically they should have just advertised Islands of Adventure on its own as an entirely separate park at Universal, instead of lumping it all in to this weird naming idea for the resort.

It's insane how much they messed up promos, because Universal could have easily just changed the wording to include "the ALL-NEW Islands of Adventure Theme Park at the Universal Studios Escape Resort! Book now at one of our amazing onsite hotels!"

Universal is a much more "solid"

Indeed. The big lesson from Potter wasn't, at least as far as I can tell, that Disney needed to fight harder with Universal to win guests. It was that there was still considerable room for growth in the Orlando theme park market that Disney had written off as a mature market.

I'm also old enough to remember all the chatter about Islands of Adventure back in the day and what it would mean for WDW. While Universal did grow into a more credible resort destination following its opening, that took some time and WDW continued to grow alongside it. Similarly, all the talk of Volcano Bay as a next-level water park such that it almost counted as a separate theme park in its own right didn't quite pan out and attendance at the Disney water parks kept growing even if VB also ultimately proved successful. I am getting a similar feeling from all the hyperbole around Epic Universe as some kind of theme park revelation that will act as a magnet drawing crowds over from Disney, leaving them scrambling to try and win them back. I feel the biggest issues Disney is facing in attracting guests are already apparent before Epic Universe is in the picture.
VB was never meant to act as a separate theme park and draw similar crowds to the regular parks, that was just marketing talk. They never expected that park to compare to IOA/USF in anyway... it was just a marketing gimmick.

It'll be interesting to see what THEA attendance reports say for this past year as VB was very busy and Disney's water parks are in this eternal open/close situation.

I agree that there is a lot of exaggeration when it comes to Epic's impact on WDW... but there is definitely concern over Universal taking a day from a lesser desired park like DAK. 3 Universal dry parks is more than enough to convince a family to outright skip WDW if they prefer.

MK will still be "king" in Orlando... but all the other Orlando parks will be fighting against each other. The one thing I'm interested in knowing is how Epic impacts Universal Studios' impact itself as it will then become the least desirable park of the 3. Will people "add" a day for Epic or just replace USF?
 

Chef idea Mickey`=

Active Member
You can see some of the TV commercials here (click on the video link for a playlist)



Basically they should have just advertised Islands of Adventure on its own as an entirely separate park at Universal, instead of lumping it all in to this weird naming idea for the resort.

So basically I would guess Universal Escape was at that time what they wanted to call it instead of Universal Orlando Resort? Universal Escape sounds terrible to me, CityWalk and Island's of Adventures considered escapes?

Island's of Adventure - "where your Epic Adventure finally begins!*" now that's striking!
They have such a good named park.

At least they learned not to repeat it with Epic Universe!
 

Henry Mystic

Author of "A Manor of Fact"
I was referring to Splash Mountain (thought that sarcasm was clear enough, but apparently not)

The capacity issue is across all four parks (and Test Track is clearly not one of the world’s most popular attractions).

But that only reinforces the point - Test Track, Frozen, etc - no new capacity added.
Test Track is so painfully mediocre. It desperately needs an update to justify its wait times.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
So basically I would guess Universal Escape was at that time what they wanted to call it instead of Universal Orlando Resort? Universal Escape sounds terrible to me, CityWalk and Island's of Adventures considered escapes?

Island's of Adventure - "where your Epic Adventure finally begins!*" now that's striking!
They have such a good named park.

At least they learned not to repeat it with Epic Universe!
The name of the resort was Universal Studios Escape. Studios was part of all of the names. Islands of Adventure was Universal Studios Islands of Adventure (you can still see this name in Port of Entry). They also briefly changed it to Universal Studios Escape Orlando which just made it sound like you were trying to escape Orlando.

Universal Epic Universe at Universal Orlando Resort is a bit heavy on the universe words.
 

MisterPenguin

President of Animal Kingdom
Premium Member
The name of the resort was Universal Studios Escape. Studios was part of all of the names. Islands of Adventure was Universal Studios Islands of Adventure (you can still see this name in Port of Entry). They also briefly changed it to Universal Studios Escape Orlando which just made it sound like you were trying to escape Orlando.

Universal Epic Universe at Universal Orlando Resort is a bit heavy on the universe words.
They still got nothing on Disney Hollywood Studios Star Wars Land Star Wars Galaxy's Edge Batuu Black Spire Outpost.
 

SplashJacket

Well-Known Member
It wouldn't have those wait times if it had a reputation for being painfully mediocre ;)
Wait time is not demand.

Wait time is a reflection of demand and capacity.

Test track has a very poor capacity. Coupled with Lightning Lane and single rider, the hourly capacity dedicated to Standby is likely in the low hundreds, which might make it worse than any other E-ticket at Disney.
 

Bocabear

Well-Known Member
It wouldn't have those wait times if it had a reputation for being painfully mediocre ;)
people love rides and anything fast...simple... Look at the painfully long rides for any coaster in any of the WDW parks... There are very few fast rides at EPCOT, 3 including Mission Space. Anything fast, mediocre or even completely unremarkable would have a long line at EPCOT.
you could put the Barnstormer in EPCOT and it would have huge lines...
 

osian

Well-Known Member
Wait time is not demand.

Wait time is a reflection of demand and capacity.

Test track has a very poor capacity. Coupled with Lightning Lane and single rider, the hourly capacity dedicated to Standby is likely in the low hundreds, which might make it worse than any other E-ticket at Disney.
Test Track has higher capacity than Frozen Ever After. Single Rider doesn't contribute to reduced capacity in the standby line, unless you dictate that parties are split up, which doesn't happen on, say, Frozen ever After.
 

SplashJacket

Well-Known Member
Test Track has higher capacity than Frozen Ever After. Single Rider doesn't contribute to reduced capacity in the standby line, unless you dictate that parties are split up, which doesn't happen on, say, Frozen ever After.
If the ride is pumping through 1200 guests an hour, and allots 600 guests to Lightning Lane, then the standby line (the only line with a posted wait time) has to fit its throughput in those remaining 600 guests.

Single rider fills seats that would otherwise be empty, but if we’re looking at the overall throughput, single rider is exaggerating an already low capacity for stand by guests.

So instead of say 600 guests an hour for Standby (the ratio with LL is likely worse), you’d have maybe 400 standby (assuming 1 single per vehicle) or 500 for standby (assuming 1 single per 2 vehicle dispatches).
 

Rich Brownn

Well-Known Member
So basically I would guess Universal Escape was at that time what they wanted to call it instead of Universal Orlando Resort? Universal Escape sounds terrible to me, CityWalk and Island's of Adventures considered escapes?

Island's of Adventure - "where your Epic Adventure finally begins!*" now that's striking!
They have such a good named park.

At least they learned not to repeat it with Epic Universe!
If they want to tweak Disney's nose a bit they should use "Why visit a world, when you can visit a whole universe" :D
 

Bocabear

Well-Known Member
And they OUGHT to put the Barnstormer in Epcot, hidden inside a Mt. Fuji dark ride in the Japan pavilion. There are so many things they COULD do that would plus the parks experience without costing a fortune.
I think a ride that is literally under a minute long would be a terrible idea inside Mt Fuji... WDW needs attractions that are longer...better experiences... But yes... I have often wondered why they didn't get LGB the German toy train manufacturer to sponsor a Germany pavilion attraction... powered train coaster across an idyllic German countryside ...like being shrunk down and riding through a toy train layout... It could be absolutely charming, hills, tunnels mountain with a castle on top...lower thrills, decent length, with an outdoor section to add some visual kinetics to the pavilion... kind of a perfect match
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
If the ride is pumping through 1200 guests an hour, and allots 600 guests to Lightning Lane, then the standby line (the only line with a posted wait time) has to fit its throughput in those remaining 600 guests.

Single rider fills seats that would otherwise be empty, but if we’re looking at the overall throughput, single rider is exaggerating an already low capacity for stand by guests.

So instead of say 600 guests an hour for Standby (the ratio with LL is likely worse), you’d have maybe 400 standby (assuming 1 single per vehicle) or 500 for standby (assuming 1 single per 2 vehicle dispatches).
Single Rider doesn’t interfere with Stand By unless it is being so horribly handled that it is slowing down throughput.
 

SplashJacket

Well-Known Member
Single Rider doesn’t interfere with Stand By unless it is being so horribly handled that it is slowing down throughput.
Missed my point.
Per the Hourly Capacity resource from @MisterPenguin the Theoretical Hourly capacity of Test Trak is 1200 guests an hour according to the Hidden Magic category.

The Operational Hourly Capacity is 1,080 guests an hour. So while theoretically, Test Track can handle 1200 guests an hour, in reality, it's only getting about 1,080 guests an hour.

If we assume Genie+ allocates half the real-world throughput to Lighting Lane, that's 540 guests an hour that can experience the attraction using Lightning Lane. Because Lightning Lane always takes priority (they will dump the queue and go to an absurd ratio if it gets too long) and has a fixed distribution, we can take out the 540 from the total 1,080 guests riding an hour.

This leaves another 540 guests riding.

These 540 guests will be a mix of both single-rider and standby, whereas the original 540 was only Lightning Lane.

Assume 90 single-rider guests ride per hour (one per two vehicle dispatches on average), which leaves 450 standby guests to ride. In my experience at Test Track, 90 single-riders seems like a low estimate.

Alternatively, if we did not have a single-rider line, the total number of guests riding per hour would be 990 guests. As you can see, single-rider increases the operational capacity of the attraction.

That said, if we assume the same Genie+ Lightning Lane ratio where half the capacity goes to Lightning Lane (usually it's more than half), then 495 Lightning Lane guests can ride per hour and 495 Standby guests can ride per hour.

So assuming a ride like Test Track and Frozen have the exact same throughput (most the data online estimating capacity comes from someone standing at the exit and counting people) Frozen's standby would have a higher hourly throughput when compared to Test Track if they are running the same ratio.

I'm not advocating for the removal of single-rider, but simply explaining a component of Test Track's (undeserved, imho) high waits. A counter-point could be that the single rider is removing guests from the stand-by line, but, personally, I have never even gone through Test Tracks single rider line since it's never short enough for the experience. Without the single-rider line, I simply wouldn't ride Test Track unless I had a Lighting Lane. Even if we assume 100% of singles would've gone in Standby, that would just return it to normal throughput split.

My whole point is that the way we look at capacity (total attraction throughput) and the likely way Disney looks at attraction throughput (total attraction throughput) does not account for single-rider before determining their Lightning Lane distribution, hence shrinking the pie for Standby throughput.

Once again, it's awesome that they have single-rider at Test Track, but the attraction's overall horrid capacity, likely ILL ratios, and single-rider component, means that the normal standby line has a very low throughput, contributing to high waits.
 

osian

Well-Known Member
personally, I have never even gone through Test Tracks single rider line since it's never short enough for the experience.
Strangely, I've never ridden Test Track via Standby or Fastpass! I've always used single rider! Walk-on very often, otherwise average of about 10 minutes wait I would say. Longest I've ever waited is probably around 15-20. It doesn't make standby any longer though. Yes, single rider increases the operational capacity. It doesn't do that at the expense of standby.

"Assume 90 single-rider guests ride per hour (one per two vehicle dispatches on average), which leaves 450 standby guests to ride."

No, you're looking at that the wrong way. The 450 standby riders would have been 450 even if 90 hadn't been taken from single rider. Standby takes priority, if only 450 can be filled from standby then single rider is used, if there are any, to increase operational capacity/make the ride more efficient/getting more people to ride it. It doesn't have any effect on standby. 90 single riders don't "leave" 450 from standby, it simply means that only 450 could be found from standby so 90 filled in. (The entire length of the queue is not going to be exactly divisible by 3, and even it was, the batching staff wouldn't be able to trawl the entire length to find the best fit, Tetris-style, Single rider does, however, fill in the gaps Tetris-syle.).

"So assuming a ride like Test Track and Frozen have the exact same throughput Frozen's standby would have a higher hourly throughput when compared to Test Track if they are running the same ratio."

Only if you assume that Frozen's batching doesn't care about splitting groups up and fills every seat on every boat, and even then it would have the same standby capacity as Test Track, all other things being equal, it wouldn't surpass it.

"My whole point is that the way we look at capacity (total attraction throughput) and the likely way Disney looks at attraction throughput (total attraction throughput) does not account for single-rider before determining their Lightning Lane distribution, hence shrinking the pie for Standby throughput."

This is a problem with the way LL is distributed (which is a problem on all rides really!), not a single rider problem per se. Is it your point that the combination of single rider and LL is causing a problem for standy, so single rider would be OK if LL didn't' exist?
 
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