News Big changes coming to EPCOT's Future World?

[OvertheHorizon]

You could put the Barnstormer in EPCOT and it would have huge lines...

And they OUGHT to put the Barnstormer in Epcot, hidden inside a Mt. Fuji dark ride in the Japan pavilion. There are so many things they COULD do that would plus the parks experience without costing a fortune.

 

[Rich Brownn]

Anyone would like to share with why it was a disaster? I'm curiously interested in it don't know about it.

A common question was "Universal Escapes what?" People didn't understand it was a new park and resorts. They thought it was the old park with a new slogan

 

[Rich Brownn]

So basically I would guess Universal Escape was at that time what they wanted to call it instead of Universal Orlando Resort? Universal Escape sounds terrible to me, CityWalk and Island's of Adventures considered escapes?

Island's of Adventure - "where your Epic Adventure finally begins!*" now that's striking!
They have such a good named park.

At least they learned not to repeat it with Epic Universe!

If they want to tweak Disney's nose a bit they should use "Why visit a world, when you can visit a whole universe"

 

[wdrive]

If they want to tweak Disney's nose a bit they should use "Why visit a world, when you can visit a whole universe"

I think they have used that before, a good few years ago now

 

[Bocabear]

And they OUGHT to put the Barnstormer in Epcot, hidden inside a Mt. Fuji dark ride in the Japan pavilion. There are so many things they COULD do that would plus the parks experience without costing a fortune.

I think a ride that is literally under a minute long would be a terrible idea inside Mt Fuji... WDW needs attractions that are longer...better experiences... But yes... I have often wondered why they didn't get LGB the German toy train manufacturer to sponsor a Germany pavilion attraction... powered train coaster across an idyllic German countryside ...like being shrunk down and riding through a toy train layout... It could be absolutely charming, hills, tunnels mountain with a castle on top...lower thrills, decent length, with an outdoor section to add some visual kinetics to the pavilion... kind of a perfect match

 

[lazyboy97o]

If the ride is pumping through 1200 guests an hour, and allots 600 guests to Lightning Lane, then the standby line (the only line with a posted wait time) has to fit its throughput in those remaining 600 guests.

Single rider fills seats that would otherwise be empty, but if we’re looking at the overall throughput, single rider is exaggerating an already low capacity for stand by guests.

So instead of say 600 guests an hour for Standby (the ratio with LL is likely worse), you’d have maybe 400 standby (assuming 1 single per vehicle) or 500 for standby (assuming 1 single per 2 vehicle dispatches).

Single Rider doesn’t interfere with Stand By unless it is being so horribly handled that it is slowing down throughput.

 

[DisneyDodo]

Hagrid's Magical Creatures Motorbike Adventure (rollercoaster)

…in the Wizarding World of Harry Potter – Hogsmeade at Universal’s Islands of Adventure Theme Park in Universal Orlando Resort

 

[SplashJacket]

Single Rider doesn’t interfere with Stand By unless it is being so horribly handled that it is slowing down throughput.

Missed my point.

Epcot

View attachment 271657

Per the Hourly Capacity resource from @MisterPenguin the Theoretical Hourly capacity of Test Trak is 1200 guests an hour according to the Hidden Magic category.

The Operational Hourly Capacity is 1,080 guests an hour. So while theoretically, Test Track can handle 1200 guests an hour, in reality, it's only getting about 1,080 guests an hour.

If we assume Genie+ allocates half the real-world throughput to Lighting Lane, that's 540 guests an hour that can experience the attraction using Lightning Lane. Because Lightning Lane always takes priority (they will dump the queue and go to an absurd ratio if it gets too long) and has a fixed distribution, we can take out the 540 from the total 1,080 guests riding an hour.

This leaves another 540 guests riding.

These 540 guests will be a mix of both single-rider and standby, whereas the original 540 was only Lightning Lane.

Assume 90 single-rider guests ride per hour (one per two vehicle dispatches on average), which leaves 450 standby guests to ride. In my experience at Test Track, 90 single-riders seems like a low estimate.

Alternatively, if we did not have a single-rider line, the total number of guests riding per hour would be 990 guests. As you can see, single-rider increases the operational capacity of the attraction.

That said, if we assume the same Genie+ Lightning Lane ratio where half the capacity goes to Lightning Lane (usually it's more than half), then 495 Lightning Lane guests can ride per hour and 495 Standby guests can ride per hour.

So assuming a ride like Test Track and Frozen have the exact same throughput (most the data online estimating capacity comes from someone standing at the exit and counting people) Frozen's standby would have a higher hourly throughput when compared to Test Track if they are running the same ratio.

I'm not advocating for the removal of single-rider, but simply explaining a component of Test Track's (undeserved, imho) high waits. A counter-point could be that the single rider is removing guests from the stand-by line, but, personally, I have never even gone through Test Tracks single rider line since it's never short enough for the experience. Without the single-rider line, I simply wouldn't ride Test Track unless I had a Lighting Lane. Even if we assume 100% of singles would've gone in Standby, that would just return it to normal throughput split.

My whole point is that the way we look at capacity (total attraction throughput) and the likely way Disney looks at attraction throughput (total attraction throughput) does not account for single-rider before determining their Lightning Lane distribution, hence shrinking the pie for Standby throughput.

Once again, it's awesome that they have single-rider at Test Track, but the attraction's overall horrid capacity, likely ILL ratios, and single-rider component, means that the normal standby line has a very low throughput, contributing to high waits.

 

[osian]

personally, I have never even gone through Test Tracks single rider line since it's never short enough for the experience.

Strangely, I've never ridden Test Track via Standby or Fastpass! I've always used single rider! Walk-on very often, otherwise average of about 10 minutes wait I would say. Longest I've ever waited is probably around 15-20. It doesn't make standby any longer though. Yes, single rider increases the operational capacity. It doesn't do that at the expense of standby.

"Assume 90 single-rider guests ride per hour (one per two vehicle dispatches on average), which leaves 450 standby guests to ride."

No, you're looking at that the wrong way. The 450 standby riders would have been 450 even if 90 hadn't been taken from single rider. Standby takes priority, if only 450 can be filled from standby then single rider is used, if there are any, to increase operational capacity/make the ride more efficient/getting more people to ride it. It doesn't have any effect on standby. 90 single riders don't "leave" 450 from standby, it simply means that only 450 could be found from standby so 90 filled in. (The entire length of the queue is not going to be exactly divisible by 3, and even it was, the batching staff wouldn't be able to trawl the entire length to find the best fit, Tetris-style, Single rider does, however, fill in the gaps Tetris-syle.).

"So assuming a ride like Test Track and Frozen have the exact same throughput Frozen's standby would have a higher hourly throughput when compared to Test Track if they are running the same ratio."

Only if you assume that Frozen's batching doesn't care about splitting groups up and fills every seat on every boat, and even then it would have the same standby capacity as Test Track, all other things being equal, it wouldn't surpass it.

"My whole point is that the way we look at capacity (total attraction throughput) and the likely way Disney looks at attraction throughput (total attraction throughput) does not account for single-rider before determining their Lightning Lane distribution, hence shrinking the pie for Standby throughput."

This is a problem with the way LL is distributed (which is a problem on all rides really!), not a single rider problem per se. Is it your point that the combination of single rider and LL is causing a problem for standy, so single rider would be OK if LL didn't' exist?

 

[Sir_Cliff]

It'll be interesting to see what THEA attendance reports say for this past year as VB was very busy and Disney's water parks are in this eternal open/close situation.

I'm very curious to know what Disney's thought process is on running their water parks these days.

I agree that there is a lot of exaggeration when it comes to Epic's impact on WDW... but there is definitely concern over Universal taking a day from a lesser desired park like DAK. 3 Universal dry parks is more than enough to convince a family to outright skip WDW if they prefer.

MK will still be "king" in Orlando... but all the other Orlando parks will be fighting against each other. The one thing I'm interested in knowing is how Epic impacts Universal Studios' impact itself as it will then become the least desirable park of the 3. Will people "add" a day for Epic or just replace USF?

Definitely agree, and the idea that they want to get moving on DAK and taking Dinoland offline as the next year or two are potentially going to be rough attendance-wise for the park either way makes sense.

In general, I am also very curious to see just how Epic Universe changes attendance patterns across both resorts. There are a lot of different ways this could go, ranging from WDW feeling a noticeable hit to the market growing and attendance across the Universal parks changing more notably than attendance across the two resorts. I also wonder a little whether Universal has been finding its own audience rather than necessarily fighting over the same audience as Disney. Obviously there's significant overlap, but it wouldn't surprise me if over the past decade or so both resorts have increasingly carved out their own niche of consumers who prefer what each resort does best as the Orlando theme park market has continued to grow.

Maybe. What I do know is those triangles could blow away if not properly adhered to the structure.

I see he's at it again over (unfinished) work that apparently doesn't reach the heights of WDSP Toy Story Land.

 

[DCBaker]

A look at a few panels lit up on CommuniCore Hall.

 

[Disney Analyst]

A look at a few panels lit up on CommuniCore Hall.

 

[Centauri Space Station]

Wait time is not demand.

Wait time is a reflection of demand and capacity.

Test track has a very poor capacity. Coupled with Lightning Lane and single rider, the hourly capacity dedicated to Standby is likely in the low hundreds, which might make it worse than any other E-ticket at Disney.

It’s my favorite ride in the world currently and fits Epcot perfectly

 

[MisterPenguin]

Everything's an LED!! Everything's an LED!!!

 

[Chef idea Mickey`=]

A common question was "Universal Escapes what?" People didn't understand it was a new park and resorts. They thought it was the old park with a new slogan

When I first asked I had no clue about branding the word Escape. Had I seen it I wouldn't of needed to ask anymore.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Missed my point.

Per the Hourly Capacity resource from @MisterPenguin the Theoretical Hourly capacity of Test Trak is 1200 guests an hour according to the Hidden Magic category.

The Operational Hourly Capacity is 1,080 guests an hour. So while theoretically, Test Track can handle 1200 guests an hour, in reality, it's only getting about 1,080 guests an hour.

If we assume Genie+ allocates half the real-world throughput to Lighting Lane, that's 540 guests an hour that can experience the attraction using Lightning Lane. Because Lightning Lane always takes priority (they will dump the queue and go to an absurd ratio if it gets too long) and has a fixed distribution, we can take out the 540 from the total 1,080 guests riding an hour.

This leaves another 540 guests riding.

These 540 guests will be a mix of both single-rider and standby, whereas the original 540 was only Lightning Lane.

Assume 90 single-rider guests ride per hour (one per two vehicle dispatches on average), which leaves 450 standby guests to ride. In my experience at Test Track, 90 single-riders seems like a low estimate.

Alternatively, if we did not have a single-rider line, the total number of guests riding per hour would be 990 guests. As you can see, single-rider increases the operational capacity of the attraction.

That said, if we assume the same Genie+ Lightning Lane ratio where half the capacity goes to Lightning Lane (usually it's more than half), then 495 Lightning Lane guests can ride per hour and 495 Standby guests can ride per hour.

So assuming a ride like Test Track and Frozen have the exact same throughput (most the data online estimating capacity comes from someone standing at the exit and counting people) Frozen's standby would have a higher hourly throughput when compared to Test Track if they are running the same ratio.

I'm not advocating for the removal of single-rider, but simply explaining a component of Test Track's (undeserved, imho) high waits. A counter-point could be that the single rider is removing guests from the stand-by line, but, personally, I have never even gone through Test Tracks single rider line since it's never short enough for the experience. Without the single-rider line, I simply wouldn't ride Test Track unless I had a Lighting Lane. Even if we assume 100% of singles would've gone in Standby, that would just return it to normal throughput split.

My whole point is that the way we look at capacity (total attraction throughput) and the likely way Disney looks at attraction throughput (total attraction throughput) does not account for single-rider before determining their Lightning Lane distribution, hence shrinking the pie for Standby throughput.

Once again, it's awesome that they have single-rider at Test Track, but the attraction's overall horrid capacity, likely ILL ratios, and single-rider component, means that the normal standby line has a very low throughput, contributing to high waits.

Disney counts how many guests are in each queue. They know what percentage of throughput is single riders. The whole reason an attraction can open with space dedicated for a single rider queue is because that information is known and it can be determined whether or not one will be with the expense.

You can’t compare an attraction without a single rider queue to one with a single rider queue. They wouldn’t be hitting the same numbers if they both lacked the single rider queue.

 

[DCBaker]

Here is a 4K video of lighting tests from around CommuniCore Hall and Plaza this afternoon and evening.

 

[ChewbaccaYourMum]

Here is a 4K video of lighting tests from around CommuniCore Hall and Plaza this afternoon and evening.

The lights on the building actually look incredible. Especially the shot with Spaceship Earth right in the background.

 

[pigglewiggle]

Here is a 4K video of lighting tests from around CommuniCore Hall and Plaza this afternoon and evening.

This is really going to be a great after dark area of the park.

 

[Epcot82Guy]

I'll need to see them in person. I can't say I'm all that wowed right now. But, we'll see. Don't get me wrong. It's nice, but it's just kind of a vertical lighting package. (It also feels a bit disjointed from the open air of Connections/Creations, the natural aspects of the Gardens. And, I think this could feel dated much more quickly than they would like.) It feels more like Downtown Disney's West Side. Maybe my tune will change when I see it in person.