5th gate question?

[danlb_2000]

Respectfully, anything ever created in the past or will be created started out as a new idea. Everything is someones IP unless it was left there by aliens. Then, of course, the idea would be alien to us.

If you can't understand the difference between creating an IP in the process of designing a ride, and designing a ride around an IP that already existed, then I don't think there is anything else we can say on the matter.

 

[Goofyernmost]

If you can't understand the difference between creating an IP in the process of designing a ride, and designing a ride around an IP that already existed, then I don't think there is anything else we can say on the matter.

I understand completely what the difference is in that respect. What I don't understand is why anyone gives a damn as long as the idea was done well, it was fun and entertaining and is a design by Disney. Not the idea, the spin put on it by Disney. If we wait for the current management to originate those ideas we will be walking around a pretty empty park. For the most part, Disney now owns those ideas, the were purchased for a reason (just like Walt bought the rights to us Mary Poppins). What would have been lost if he hadn't used that IP from another country even? A lot I think and if that fact cannot be understood and embraced then I don't think there is anything else we can say on the matter.

 

[JohnD]

I understand completely what the difference is in that respect. What I don't understand is why anyone gives a damn as long as the idea was done well, it was fun and entertaining and is a design by Disney. Not the idea, the spin put on it by Disney. If we wait for the current management to originate those ideas we will be walking around a pretty empty park. For the most part, Disney now owns those ideas, the were purchased for a reason (just like Walt bought the rights to us Mary Poppins). What would have been lost if he hadn't used that IP from another country even? A lot I think and if that fact cannot be understood and embraced then I don't think there is anything else we can say on the matter.

MK is a mix of IPs created by Disney (Pirates, HM, CBJ, HOP, COP, SM) and rides created around IPs. Are we now supposed to “pan” Peter Pan, Dumbo, Snow White (Mine Train), Mermaid, BATB, Treehouse and Winnie?

 

[Goofyernmost]

MK is a mix of IPs created by Disney (Pirates, HM, CBJ, HOP, COP, SM) and rides created around IPs. Are we now supposed to “pan” Peter Pan, Dumbo, Snow White (Mine Train), Mermaid, BATB, Treehouse and Winnie?

Why would you say that? I don't think anything should be "panned". An IP is an IP no matter who came up with it. A Disney IP is just as much an IP as any other. I'm just saying we can't have it both ways either Disney shouldn't use "outside" IP's and they are classified as not acceptable and not really Disney or an IP is an IP and we keep them all. I vote for the latter. The only reason why things like Peter Pan and Snow White were able to be used with no resistance is because there used to be a policy where anything over 60 years old, I think, not exactly sure of the number of years, were considered public property and anyone could use them at no cost. Disney is responsible for that law changing so they could keep Mickey to themselves so now it ends up that ideas are no longer protected and if it was thought of by someone in a different company or not within the circle of Disney there must have approval for the usage which usually means that even Disney must now cough up the cash to use it.

 

[JohnD]

Why would you say that? I don't think anything should be "panned". An IP is an IP no matter who came up with it. A Disney IP is just as much an IP as any other. I'm just saying we can't have it both ways either Disney shouldn't use "outside" IP's and they are classified as not acceptable and not really Disney or an IP is an IP and we keep them all. I vote for the latter. The only reason why things like Peter Pan and Snow White were able to be used with no resistance is because there used to be a policy where anything over 60 years old, I think, not exactly sure of the number of years, were considered public property and anyone could use them at no cost. Disney is responsible for that law changing so they could keep Mickey to themselves so now it ends up that ideas are no longer protected and if it was thought of by someone in a different company or not within the circle of Disney there must have approval for the usage which usually means that even Disney must now cough up the cash to use it.

Um, I was making a point agreeing with you.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Um, I was making a point agreeing with you.

Sorry, I didn't pick up on that. In the words of Roseanne Roseannadanna ... never-mind!

 

[BalooChicago]

The 5th gate should be a clone of the Magic Kingdom; Close each down four months a year for refurb (alternating) and keep both open four months for crowds.

(I kid, but it could work)

 

[JohnD]

Sorry, I didn't pick up on that. In the words of Roseanne Roseannadanna ... never-mind!

You're passionate. I'll give you that.

 

[rsm]

The 5th gate should be a clone of the Magic Kingdom; Close each down four months a year for refurb (alternating) and keep both open four months for crowds.

(I kid, but it could work)

#fourdumbos

 

[Indy_UK]

Other than a Villians or Heroes vs Villians park, I can't think what else would warrant a 5th gate.

Crazy idea but could Disney perhaps do smaller theme parks scattered around WDW instead or a large 5th gate?

 

[bclane]

Other than a Villians or Heroes vs Villians park, I can't think what else would warrant a 5th gate.

Crazy idea but could Disney perhaps do smaller theme parks scattered around WDW instead or a large 5th gate?

I'd love to have a DisneySea park in Orlando. Beyond that, an entire park dedicated to alien worlds/SciFi would be a dream come true. They could also do an era park with lands dedicated to different time periods in history. That could be super fun. Ooh, how bout one dedicated to Greek mythology?

 

[danlb_2000]

Other than a Villians or Heroes vs Villians park, I can't think what else would warrant a 5th gate.

Crazy idea but could Disney perhaps do smaller theme parks scattered around WDW instead or a large 5th gate?

I definitely could see Disney doing boutique experiences that maybe aren't included in the normal ticket package. I think the Star Wars hotel is the first step in that direction.

 

[Heppenheimer]

I definitely could see Disney doing boutique experiences that maybe aren't included in the normal ticket package. I think the Star Wars hotel is the first step in that direction.

The boutique park idea would be Disney Quest, which as we know, was kind of a dud.

 

[danlb_2000]

The boutique park idea would be Disney Quest, which as we know, was kind of a dud.

Disney Quest was just a glorified arcade, I am thinking along the lines of small themed experiences. Again, I go back to the Star Wars hotel which will have some sort of theme attractions/activities as part of it.

 

[It Is What It Is]

First, the fun, living in Fantasyland approach. Yes, a 5th gate would be awesome! And the 5th gate I would want: DisneySea.

Most sites I visit that have ranked all the Disney Parks put Tokyo DisneySea at number one on their list or in the top two or three. Japan and Tokyo Disney Resort are on my bucket list and there is a good chance I'll get to put a check in that box sometime over the next decade. It won't be cheap. I will feel very blessed/fortunate for my wife and I to accomplish this.

The average family has a tough enough time making it to Walt Disney World every five years (if at all) and the odds of the average US family getting to Tokyo, probably close to nil. I find myself a little irked that the Imagineers of our beloved US company came up with these fascinating plans, and are they here in the US? No, they are in Japan, and it's the one resort that Disney doesn't own a piece of (they get licensing fees from the Oriental Land Co) Nothing against Japan, they kicked butt in the 80’s and could afford to throw money at whatever they wanted. And they threw a lot at Disney.

I would like to visit that park many, many times, but will be joyous to get there once. Not looking for an exact replica, but something close. Tower of Terror is already in DHS, so something different there. A park that is something close to the original.

I want DisneySea in Florida.

Now secondly, the reality of a 5th gate. Is it possible in the next few decades? Sure. Is it likely? Err, very, very low odds on that. Disney is a business. They have found a way to dominate the box office, not just here but around the globe. I like to visit Box Office Mojo regularly and look at the worldwide totals for movies. Disney has done extremely well over the last decade in film. How? They buy things. Everybody's favorite on these forums favorite two letters: IP. In business, it works.

Disney reels you in with the flat screen. Then they make these awesome promo videos enticing you to visit one of their resorts to see their IP in person. China and India, two countries with over a billion and a growing middle classes, Disney wants more resorts in these regions to start getting more money out of their wallets. I'm sure these take precedence over a 5th gate. Florida doesn't have many problems attracting people. Disney once even had plans on the board for Disney Wharf in Sydney, Australia (a country of 25 million). All that to say, Disney wants to dominate the globe with their Resorts. Easier to get a middle class Indian to Mumbai or Chennai than to Orlando.

Also, Florida parks need a lot more work done to them. Magic Kingdom had almost 21 million visitors last year. Epcot, AK & DHS were all between 11 and 14 million visitors each. My hunch is their goal is to get these numbers balanced upwards for the latter three parks. After the 50th for MK, you'll see a lot more attention given to those three. We are already seeing that for Epcot. Their 40th is just around the corner and you know the 50th will be big, AK turns 25 in 2023 and that will be a big anniversary. I'm guessing a lot love shown to that park at this years D23 or definitely 2021 D23. DHS is my least favorite laid out park, it needs better flow. Everyone is going to congregate in the back corner with GE & TSL. I've heard Jim Hill mention there are plans to work on the other side of the park: possibly a Monsters Inc Land and the park having a circular flow for guests?

All those things are going to take a lot of money. And I'm sure we are going to see a lot more resorts/DVC added too. Shanghai Disneyland cost Disney 5.5 billion and I don't know if that counts what China put in. If GE cost a billion, and supposedly that is a low estimate, a brand new DisneySea in today's money would probably be at least 7 to 10 billion dollars. You could do a Villans park, maybe 3 to 4 billion, but remember how horribly California Adventure was received when that was done on the cheap.

As much as I would love DisneySea in my backyard, I don't see it happening for a long, long time. There are way too many others places for Disney to invest their dollars. Thanks for reading my book of a post!

 

[Amidala]

Like most have already said, the likelihood of a fifth gate happening within the next few decades seems super low. Galaxy's Edge was costly, and the Epcot overhaul won't be cheap either. Ideally, I would like to see areas like Dinoland and Echo Lake gutted and replaced (not to conflate EL with Dino-Rama, which is far worse—but both are looking dated, especially with Star Tours officially on its way out) and a massive face-lift to Future World before TPTB even seriously consider a fifth gate. Several MK rides could also stand to be plussed (CoP, Peter Pan's Flight, Space, to name a few) and MK is badly in need of a nighttime parade...just scraping the surface of needed changes. Bulking up the parks' attraction rosters wouldn't be a bad idea either. The Tron coaster will be MK's first E-Ticket since Splash, and it's a clone. A Mystic Manor-caliber original dark ride would go a long way...Even the addition of new "immersive" lands (like the long-rumored Indiana Jones or Zootopia for DAK) would be welcome. All more practical "blue sky" goals than a fifth gate.

But that being said...obviously I would kill to have a DisneySea stateside, and would probably be willing to wait or settle on much of what I've mentioned above (Epcot updates aside) for something like that. I've never been interested in the Disney Villains concept, which has always seemed way too narrow to me. It also feels a little ironic, considering Disney/Pixar movies are increasingly moving away from memorable villains in favor of "twist" villains. Why would Disney sink billions into a fifth gate that won't allow them to easily leverage modern IPs? Facilier is the only "classic" villain in recent years, and that was nearly a decade ago. Somehow I doubt characters like Hans, Lotso and King Candy have the star power to headline their own attractions.

IMO the broader the theme the better, since it allows Disney to cast a wider net for IP and in drawing inspiration for the various lands. There's a reason a concept as simple as "sea" has managed to work so well; the creative possibilities are endless. Something involving mythology (or storytelling more broadly) might make for a cool park. You could even incorporate Paris's Discoveryland or DisneySea's Mysterious Island as one of the lands.

 

[Janir]

I personally feel that a main reason to build a 5th gate would be simple guest satisfaction. So many people spend so much money at WDW and it would be good to see them do more than add a land to a park in return. Not saying GE, Pandora and TSL are bad, but having an additional gate would seriously lighten crowds at the existing parks. Especially considering that that keep building resorts to allow more people to stay on property.

Yeah they really could use a 5th to lighten loads overall, but with EPCOT now the languishing park, They do need to properly address EPCOT, but by then will it MK that needs the attention??
Started with DAK and Pandora, then DHS was the problem , SWGE. Seems as WDW focuses on one park to shore it up, they always allow some other to languish to the point of "Opps! We gotta do something about this park now!" Now TSL in DHS might have been thought of as a way to help slow DHS's bleeding until SWGE comes long, and the EPCOT work is more along the lines of s TSL stop gap vs a major park inporvements project, dunno. But they really better have some good ideas for EPCOT come D23.
In general a 5th gate isn't a overall bad idea, but better attention the their current 4 gates as they are working on one at a time, might need to just plain have more money poured into the current 4 parks and try to avoid getting into money traps for capital improvements where the current project starts sucking the $$'s away from the other parks.